Aram the Tinker *spoiler*

[Jestr1323]

Hi Guys, I'm doing a re-read and I'm on The Shadow Rising right now. And I just came to the point where Aram picks up the sword and asks to learn it. Reading that, I suddenly remember that he is killed in a later book. I think by Perrin, not quite positive. (if someone could refresh my memory on that) Anyway, my question is is Aram a darkfriend? I don't think I was ever really sure on that...

[Majsju]

Aram was killed by Shaido archers, not by Perrin.

There is nothing to indicate that Aram was a DF, rather quite the contrary. The reason he tries to kill Perrin is because Masema has tricked him into believing that Perrin is some kind of shadowspawn.

[Jestr1323]

Thanks much Majsju. That whole part was quite fuzzy in my head.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

Actually, there may be some confusion, in my mind at least, as to whether Aram is a DF or not.  If you recall, in the Great Hunt there is a meeting of DFs, and one of them is a Tinker

 

His nose wrinkled in sudden disgust.  Even a Tinker, in bright green breeches and a virulent yellow coat.

 

At least from the point Aram picks up a sword, and perhaps earlier, I'll have to check, he is always wearing his Yellow Tinker Coat, so there is at least a chance that Aram was that darkfriend Tinker.  

 

Admittedly, this seems less likely since he tried to kill Perrin for being shadow spawn, but that may simply have been because he was infected with Masema's madness, and who knows what reasoning he'd follow then.  

[Builder]

Wait a minute. Masema's madness isn't actually a disease?

[Caedn of the Taardad]

Wait a minute. Masema's madness isn't actually a disease?

 

No, it's not a disease exactly, but you may recall that all Masema's followers "smell" of the same madness, only muted slightly, after following him for a bit, so it does spread in some way or another to some extent. 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Emotional states cause the body to emit chemical markers.  Perrin can smell these chemical markers.  So, the people around Masema may smell "mad" like he does because their similar mental state is causing them to have the same physiological reaction.  That doesn't make it a contagious disease, in the sense of being transmitted by microbes or viruses.  It just means that similar mental states smell the same to Perrin, just like fear, or anything else.

[Kaznen]

Aram was always a hothead.  When he abandoned the Way all he had was Perrin.  Then when Perrin got caught up in resueing Faile he didn't give Aram as much attention as Aram thought he should.  But Masema was, and he never really liked Perrin, so he had no proplem convincing Aram that Perrin was evil.

 

Aram already thought much of Masema because the Lord Dragon came in close behind Perrin and Faile to him.

[Obligatory WOT Reference]

sorry to divert the thread, but do we ever find out who that tinker df is?

[RobertAlexWillis]

No.  But it wasn't Aram.

[Graendals favourite]

Aram attacking Perrin is something, I fear, Perrin sort of had coming. Perrin was too young and had other things on his mind, but he really should have recognised a responsibility in Aram. It is like Elyas said, Perrin took away everything he believed in and gave only the sword and himself, but that is not enough for anyone. That Perrin realised none of this happening did not mean he did not cause it. Perrin should have taken the time to give him some kind of direction in life now that Aram no longer followed the Way of the Leaf. It is not surprising Aram came to despise him in the end, being made into a heal hound for all practical purposes but still mostly ignored by Perrin, he became easy for someone like Masema to nudge into killing Perrin. Well, to become a spiritual guru I do think Perrin first needs to understand different kinds of people first, I doubt he understood what Aram went through other than starting to use a sword and leaving his family.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Perrin didn't take anything away from Aram.  Aram made a choice.  It is not surprising at all the course Aram took, the signs were there, and Perrin probably should have seen it coming, but I don't think that Perrin either caused or deserved Aram's betrayal.

[Graendals favourite]

True. Perrin didn't have the sensitivity to notice, but nevertheless the choice was Aram's.

[Shard]

I think as well Perrin would have rather Aram stay with the Way of the Leaf. Perrin couldn't follow it himself but he seemed to respect that others did. It really is a tradgic story I think Aram's life is.

[MikeRiley]

Aram had a mind of his own. He could have done something other than practice the sword too. Perrin could have paid more attention to him, sure, but why should he have to? Aram's a big boy, he could take care of himself. He made his own choices and it wasn't Perrin's concern. Aram made himself into a heel hound.

 

Aram was always in awe of the Dragon Reborn, and it's easy to see why. If this was the Second Coming most of us would be in awe of the guy who would later be called the anti-christ. It's the guy all the prophecies spoke of, they weren't just words, he's really there and walking. So he goes to Masema, the Dragon's prophet. He believes the Dragon likes this guy and approves, he believes everything Masema says. This is the way Masema's madness spreads and it took full hold of Aram by that first meeting. If I remember right, he was even excited about meeting the Prophet after Perrin and Rand had their pretend fight.

 

I don't believe Aram was the dark tinker. It doesn't fit his character and actions one bit. The tinker in book 2's prologue was probably written in to increase the idea Bors was thinking about that there were people from every walk of life at that meeting, high and low.

[Serenla]

I don't think that there was anything Perrin could have done to save Aram.  It's practically impossible to save someone from themself.  That being said, I think I would like Perrin better if he had tried.  When you see a friend losing it, you should try to help them.

[DemandredFO]

Obligatory WOT Reference, I think the Tinker DF is Rein, he always seems to show up other than that I really have no proof.

[deathgate]

Obligatory WOT Reference, I think the Tinker DF is Rein, he always seems to show up other than that I really have no proof.

 

For some reason I was thinking the same thing but have absolutely no reason for it except for shock value.

[seasnake]

I think Perrin didn't do Aram any favors, but neither did Aram's family.  The guy had just seen his mother butchered, he's hotheaded and angry, and the family walks away and shuns him for picking up a sword?  I got kids and I have deep religious beliefs, if my kids ever walked away from that I'd be hurt but I'd tell them I love them and no matter what they choose I'll always be there for them and their father.  But Aram's family was like "our grandson is dead now" and they wandered off leaving him to his own horrible world. 

 

Aram from then on was simply living with an empty place.  Perrin knew it was wrong, but he didn't know how to fix it, so he concentrated on what he could fix (leading his people and saving Faile).  This is very much in keeping with his personality.  If Perrin had suddenly had clever words of encouragement or some insightful solution he would have departed greatly from his established character.  Instead, he fights the battles he can win and waits on the others to see what happens.  He's patient and won't rush in without a plan, and nothing in his experience could have given him insight into what Aram was going through.

 

Meanwhile, Masema gave Aram something to believe in again, even if it was twisted, and Aram accepted it to fill a void in his life after turning his back on his beliefs.  I found this plot to be legitimate.

[Serenla]

I agree with all points seasnake. 

 

The thing that makes this situation so sad is the fact that all the characters involved made the choices they felt they had to make and the result was Aram going cookoo and getting himself killed.

[seasnake]

To Serenla

 

It is sad, and I found his death to be a stupid and tragic waste.  It wasn't that I minded it was in the book or anything, stupid waste is part of life in general and it happens, and it happened here.  My only hope is that Aram's death serves some higher purpose in some way.  I hope out of this tragedy comes some kind of inspiration to Perrin to do something important later, rather than him just saying "that's too bad."  I think it will, maybe now Perrin will be willing to be a leader as he sees what a bad leader can do to the people he cares about.  Maybe he'll finally believe that he's a better leader than psychos like Masema and act like a leader.

[Serenla]

To seasnake

 

It certainly adds to the realsm of the story... I hope that it prompts Perrin to step up, his selfdoubt where human gets a bit tiresome...

[Kaznen]

Perrin did try to undo the whole "heel hound" aspect that Aram took on.  But Aram was to devouted to Perrin to see him as anything less then godlike.  When he realized Perrin was only human it crushed him.

 

And that rumor about him and Berlain didn't help things.

 

O/T somewhat.  Right before KoD was released and boss and Maj had their spoiler thread one of them said he was killed by an aiel while trying to kill Perrin.  I asked if said aiel was Gaul because I could picture vieled Gaul standing over Aram's body and say something like, "always a Lost One."

[Obligatory WOT Reference]

Obligatory WOT Reference, I think the Tinker DF is Rein, he always seems to show up other than that I really have no proof.

 

For some reason I was thinking the same thing but have absolutely no reason for it except for shock value.

 

Well seeing as we don't know really any tinkers, except for aram, rein and aram's mother, who's name i forget, i'd say that one of the three would have to be. i don't see rj introducing a df tinker that we've never met before. but what would the point be of being a df as a tinker? they go around doing repairs and getting scorned, they can't do any violence. i don't see how any of these things help the dark one in his quest for world domination.

[RobertAlexWillis]

i don't see rj introducing a df tinker that we've never met before. but what would the point be of being a df as a tinker?

 

He might have done so simply to demonstrate that there are Darkfriends in every community.

 

they go around doing repairs and getting scorned, they can't do any violence.

 

I'm pretty sure a Darkfriend Tinker could ignore the Way of the Leaf.

 

i don't see how any of these things help the dark one in his quest for world domination.

 

No one would suspect a Tinker ... for all the reasons you don't.  The very fact that you (like many people in Randland might) think it is unlikely makes it extraordinarily useful.  The best spy/assassin/agent is the one you never suspect.