Will Rand Live?

[HighLordXanthus]

"One of my questions for the Aelfinn was 'How can I win the Last Battle?" (Rand)

 

"A dangerous question to pose," she said quietly, "touching on the Shadow as it does. Supposedly, the results can be quite unpleasant. What was the answer?" (Cadsuane)

 

 

"'The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one.'" He blew a smoke ring, put another in the middle of it as it expanded. That was not the whole of it. He had asked how to win and survive. The last part of his answer had been "to live, you must die." Not something he was going to bring up in front of Min anytime soon. (Rand)

 

Knife of Dreams, News for the Dragon

 

What do you think? Is Rand going to die? This quote does seem to point to the fact that Rand has the possibility to live past the Last Battle. I cant imagine Robert Jordan giving this tid-bit and then not following it through.

 

We know the Ael'finn and Eel'finn do not lie, and the truths they tell can be trusted, but it is not the question "Will I die?", but the question "How can I live." The answer to live, you must die is awefully wide and hard to fullfill, I mean obviously he must die in a particular way, not just simply follow the literal path and end his life and be reborn.

 

Does this death have to do with min's vision of Alivia (the ex-damane channeler) that she is going to help rand die? If so, what kind of death? A fake death??

[jared]

he will live out his life with his three wives.

[Guest Majsju]

I certainly hope he dies, and stays dead. I'm not a fan of "happily ever after".

[Cam]

come on, with min, elayne AND avi (dont forget cads) to help he is unstoppable...he may be an idiot but the girls arent :D

[Hoop Snake]

he may be an idiot but the girls arent :D

Oh come on, that is such a lie. :P

[Kadere]

I want him dead. I BADLY want him dead. I'm going to feel pretty ripped off if he doesn't die. I wan the whole "live again" stuff, where everyone thinks for some reason he's going to life as Moridin for the rest of his life to be completely wrong. I just want him dead. I want it to be that he dies in the third age, just as he did in the second, and the first, and so on, so that he can be reborn in the fourth age and in that way fullfill that prophesy about two dawns or whatever. If this whole series ends with none of the main characters dying, not even Rand, I'll be a pretty upset.

[havoc110]

I believe someone's vision has him in a boat with 3 women. I assume he will be "mostly dead" and leaving Randland,

akin to Morte D'Arthur or last scene of LOTR.

[Blue Eclipse]

Personally, I think he'll figure out the riddle... which I suspect will have something to do with his children. I suspect this because: A) it mentions his "blood" on Shayol Ghul, and B) Elaida once had a premonition that the Andor Royal Family (Elayne) will play a vital role in T'G. And since she is carrying his children, or his 'blood'...

[Luckers]

I'm pretty much a fan of the body swap with Moridin theory, but if not that then definately dead.

[Graendals favourite]

I think that in some way he will die, and then live again, but then after doing the rest of his part, he will die again.

[Hoop Snake]

I'm thinking that in some way Lews Therin could die as he wants to, and Rand can live on.

[Mashiara]

No, he will not survive. You know why? Because I want him to die.

[merlinspetrock]

I have a feeling he will die or dissapear ala Arthur(sailing off into history with his three wives

). Three wives are too much. I dont think it would work out well as much as they all would hope it will.

 

But as far as him living is concerned IMO as soon as he does what he needs to, he will be released to a well deserved rest. I dont think the civilized world will need him to set everything to rights. That is a fight for others. His was just afight vs TDO. Leave the more mundane things to those that come after. his fight is against evil incarnate. Leave human vs human fighting to some other heros.

[mightisright]

RJ has shown a reluctance to kill off his characters. I say Rand lives on in obscurity. After all, all he ever wanted was to live in peace and herd sheep. RJ set out to tell the story of a savior. Saviors, as we all know, sometimes rise from the dead. Nothing else in these books has been all that tragic and I don't see the main character dying permanently, savior or not. There is some precedence for living in fantasy anyway. I don't see the problem anyways. If you want characters to die read Song of Fire and Ice. I guess you can tell my preference. I could still see this going either way but there have been some pretty good signs that he is going to pull through.

 

In short I agree with Merlin.

[joeybsmash]

isn't there a prophecy that says avi is going to have 4 of rands kids? they would have to get really busy really quick for that to happen before the last battle.

[Zardi]

Four kids at once (with something "odd" about them). As I'm sure you learned in biology, all it takes is one time.

[vikingdriver]

I say yes to this. Rand seems to be going against the norm and using his being Ta'veran to his advantage by doing what no one expects. Only because he is doing what no one expects, I think he will do just that and figure out how to change the pattern. he has already cleaned up siadin and everyone said that it can't be done.

[Hoop Snake]

isn't there a prophecy that says avi is going to have 4 of rands kids? they would have to get really busy really quick for that to happen before the last battle.

Not if all 4 happen at once. :P

[Stevenator]

If he doesn't die, I'll kill him.

[Achilles]

Firstly, I'd like to say hi, I've just found this forum...

 

Well...actually he can die...or anything could happen. I've been reading through the last three books...well, the things happening to the ta'averen show that they might not be strong enough. I mean, why is that Logain and the others appear? I think Logain can be the one who has to finish all things when Rand fails...Or at least they're gonna get even more important roles...

[argonath]

It actually isnt that difficult to understand at least 1 way for him to accomplish this.

 

How did Birgitte resurrect herself and live again? She was dead, and sitting in the dream world awaiting the wheel, or the Horn, and got pulled out prematurely.

 

And is living again ... sort of outside the wheel.

 

Now, if Rand dies, and is not killed by balefire, then there is a VERY good chance he will be in Dream Land (being channeled by Art Bell no doubt), and somehow he can be pulled out of there... maybe by Nyn or Egwene, and be able to survive by the links of his wives.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Argonath

[Chel Vanin]

I'm not sure, I personally would like to see Rand live but I hate when main characters die in ANY book, don't know why. I think that Lews Therin (or at least his voice...) will die and Rand will live. Not sure but I think its the "Dragon Reborn" who must die in the last battle not "Rand al'Thor". But hey you never know RJ is one sneaky guy :)

[Genesis_XVI]

I think he'll survive. I doubt RJ would introduce a plot line as poetic as "to live, you must die" with no intention of it happening.

 

I don't think it'll happen as Argonath suggested however. I mean, there is no evidence to suggest that the Dragon's soul would reside in T'A'R between lives. The Dragon is the creator's hero, not a hero of the horn.

 

Secondly, even if by some miracle of chance that the Dragon's sole did reside in T'A'R, it took Moghedien to remove Birgitte. Despite Lanfear's claims, Moghedien was the queen of the world of dreams, and by all accounts makes what the most experiecned wise ones do look like the fumbling of a drunkard. Egwene can't match that. Ny certainly can't. And even if Eg could, would she??

 

Thirdly, whether he was balefired or not makes no difference. Balefire doesn't destroy a soul. It merely cuts the thread at a time before it happened. Balefire's power and mystique lies in the fact that not only is it unstoppable, but it circumvents time - something not even Shaitan can do. As such, it can bring people back from the dead, or unravel the pattern.

 

Lastly, why does everyone hate Rand so much? He's by far my favorite character, and one of the best hero's in modern fantasy. I would be lying if I didn't say his inaction in the last 3 books hasn't been frustrating (bordering on infuriating) but I think this is a testament to two things. First, RJ's view that a hero never does it alone. Second, that a gallant charge (none-too-subtle metaphor for filling in time with "courageous action") won't win a war that requires a meticulous plan.

 

- Genesis_XVI

 

PS - Anyone who hates Rand because they think he's stupid is an @ss. Rand has demonstrated an understanding and intelligence that goes beyond what anyone could expect. He's gone from tending sheep to fighting toe-to-toe with the forsaken (and winning!!!!). He understands what's needed, and devotes time and energy to understanding phrophecy and gathering intelligence. Because Rand didn't secure the black tower, or bend to the Witches doesn't make him an idiot.

[argonath]

You make some good points, but we may see some details that havent been addressed.

 

One, you can die FOREVER if killed in TAR... see Hopper talking to Perrin, and Slayers actions.

 

Two, what is the result if you GO INTO TAR fully... not in dream mode, or after dying. If you are killed that way, what circumstances arise?

 

Third, Moggie may have been the queen of TAR as a mortal, but Im pretty sure thet the DO controls death and TAR much more than Moggie does. Or Ishy/Moridin when he was chasing them down in their dreams in Book 1.

 

I do not have a clue or conjecture about what will happen if he dies, and lives again, but one thing about the heroes of the horn struck me when you brought up that Rand isnt tied to the Horn...

 

The Heroes saw him as Lews Therin... so the incarnation of Rand himself may be different AFTER the final conclusion is announced... ie., he will return with NO sembalance of being the Dragon, but instead will just be a regular man.

 

Argonath

[Thread7]

I don't like or think that Rand would get ripped out of the dream world Briggette is now no longer part of the wheel I don't think the world would be in good shape for the next age if the Dragon Reborn was torn out of the wheel. I may be wrong but Im pretty sure thats not how it going to happen.