Various Issues

[acerbus80]

How do we think Rand benefits from four bonds, as opposed to one?

 

As far as I can tell, there is no real benefit.  He's really only been truly bonded as a warder once, and unlike most warders, non-chanellers, as far as I know we haven't seen any of the benefits other warders receive from the bond.  Whether this has just never come up, or if his ability to channel alters the usual warder bond, we really don't know.  It seems that the AS that bonded him (her name escapes me currently) doesn't seem to be able to compel him as is expected from the bond, and I believe it's Cad that connects this deficiency with Rand being a channeler.

 

On the other hand, his three way bond with the girls does give him somewhat of a link to human emotion that he has been lacking for some time, and perhaps this may prove critical to him retaining his humanity as Cad so desperately has been striving to achieve since she attached herself to him.

[Sharaman]

Rand has actually been bonded "only" twice. The first time by Alanna normally and the second time by three women (including a non-channeler) who were linked. Alanna can't compel him because he was holding Saidin when she tried and according to RJ, it is impossible to use compulsion of any kind, including the Graendal sort, on somebody who is actually holding Saidin.

We don't know what exactly he gets from the bond but it may be strength and endurance - he has two wounds, and a missing hand plus nausea, etc, to cope with. Maybe the bonds help him.

Certainly the bond-holders can feel his pain - Alanna, Avi and Min all comment on it at various times.

[SheaththeSword]

Yet eavesdropping with the One Power is permitted in almost any case. This to me makes little sense since gaining knowledge could be considered a weapon.

How? Gaining knowledge, in and of itself, isn't harmful. It's what you do with it. That might be considered a weapon, but that would depend on the Sister. There's no reason why it should be considered a weapon.

 

It's even simpler than that. It's using the OP to gain a (possible) weapon. Like using the OP to pull a sword into your hand - only used to gain the weapon, not as a weapon itself.

 

But remember, a few clever AS thought of throwing rocks at Mat with the Power, and if they do not consider THAT as usuing th Power as a weapon, do you really think they'd consider something as indirrect as gaining knowledge as OP weaponry?

[Nightstrike]

How do we think Rand benefits from four bonds, as opposed to one?

Benefits are the same as from being bonded once. One AS with multiple warders also gives each warder the same benefits as if she'd only bonded one of them.

 

RJ's blog 5 October 2005 "YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS"

 

  - Rand gets only the same benefits as he got from being bonded to one Aes Sedai.  It neither multiplies nor divides.  Each of a Green’s Warders get the same amount of benefits as the single Warder of another sister.

 

 

[Luckers]

How do we think Rand benefits from four bonds, as opposed to one?

Benefits are the same as from being bonded once. One AS with multiple warder also gives each warder the same benefits as if she'd only bonded one of them. RJ said so.

 

 

That a man who is bonded once by an Aes Sedai who then bonds several others recieves no extra benefit does not mean that a man bonded by several women would not recieve extra benefits.

 

Personally I don't believe that they would, but that is fallacious logic.

[Nightstrike]

I added the quote in question. Neither multiplies nor divides.

[Luckers]

Thanks. Your original post was misleading as to what you were stating RJ sustained.

[OptimusPrime]

Thanks for the quote Nightstrike.

 

 

[mb]

balefire; it prevents the Dark One from resurrecting a soul.  I guess it also prevents the Dark One from using the body; is this correct?

If an already dead person is balefired, could the Dark One resurrect the soul then?

 

What were the Forsaken's ages when they were sealed?

 

The books imply that all souls get reborn.  Might some rebirths be also descendants of the people?

 

[acerbus80]

Considering the fact that balefire completely destroys anything it comes into contact with, tearing it's thread from the pattern, I'd say yes, you are correct in assuming the DO can't use a balefired body.

 

The DO has a limited amount of time to resurrect souls, so it would be a matter of how long the body has been deceased.  But I don't think that balefiring a corpse would have any effect on the departed soul.

 

I don't think anyone is real sure of their exact ages, but it's probably safe to assume that they were all several hundred years old.

 

As far as I know, only the souls of heroes are garunteed to be reborn.

[Nightstrike]

balefire; it prevents the Dark One from resurrecting a soul.

Unless it's a very, very weak balefire. Probably weaker than Moiraine. I don't know how much weaker.

 

I guess it also prevents the Dark One from using the body; is this correct?

My very personal impression is that the DO has greater problem with using a balefired body than he has with a balefired soul. That's only my impression, so I guess I can't really say.  :-\

 

If an already dead person is balefired, could the Dark One resurrect the soul then?

Heroes of the Horn seems unstoppable (no thread in the pattern). They're already dead. I think they are immune to Balefire. I don't think the DO could (or would) resurrect them.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

 

It was...mentioned that balefire does not mean that someone can’t be reborn into the Pattern. I was very surprised by this and hadn’t heard it before, but apparently Brandon has said it in previous Q&A sessions. Brandon said he was also surprised but that Maria was very insistent about this – so if the Dragon Reborn was balefired, he could still be reborn.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Chester County Books, Philadelphia 6 November 2009 - Paul Grow reporting

 

Brandon said someone killed by balefire could be reborn and woven back into the Pattern later, but the Dark One cannot resurrect that person.

 

One fan asked him . . . if the balefiring of Graendal could bring back Asmodean, if in fact Graendal was the person who killed him. Brandon essentially said no, because it happened much too long ago. At best balefire burns someone out of the Pattern 3 days to a week at the absolute most. But usually more like 5 minutes.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

 

Week 3 Question: There are many theories that attempt to create a connection of time duration to the transmigration of the dead Forsaken. Are there time and/or power constraints on the Dark One's ability to transmigrate souls?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: There are definitely time constraints on the Dark One's power to transmigrate a soul. The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately - that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death - but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the pattern.

 

Australia Interview - August 1999

 

 

Q:  Balefire is one of the most confusing things in the book, for me. I find the fine aspects of it, the whole threading together of the things that work in it . . . Could you be a little more elaborate on that?

RJ: All right. The cosmography we're looking at here, is not the cosmography of here and now. The Wheel of Time is in its way a spinning wheel. The fabric of reality is woven by the threads. Those threads are the lines that are formed by people passing through time. Each person has a thread. The thread has its sole dimension in time, its life is in time. Those are the threads that are used to weave the fabric of reality. When balefire strikes a person, a thread here, it doesn't simply stop the thread there. The thread burns backwards a little bit, like you just took a thread and put a match to it and it burns up a little bit before it goes out. It depends on how hot the flame is how far it's going to burn back and what the material is opposed to. It burns up a little bit, it doesn't just catch fire on the end and go out. So that person that was hit here is burned out of the pattern back to here. What that person did between here and here was no longer done. Other people remember seeing it. They may remember the supposed effects of it but what that person did wasn't done. It didn't happen, it's not real. Now that's a little bit of a shiver on the fabric of reality as it is. The reason that there was an unofficial agreement in the War of the Shadow to not use balefire any more, to stop using it, was simply that several cities were destroyed in that way. Hundreds of thousands of threads were burnt out from the pattern in one go and the fabric of reality began to unravel. And even the guys going for the Dark One knew that there's not a whole lot of point to winning if winning means there's nothing there to rule, nothing there to win. If you burnt out the stakes, forget it. Have I made it a little clearer I hope?

Q:  I was really referring to the scene where the wall falls on them and Rand uses balefire and they all come back to life. There's a prophecy about Mat how he was going to die and I'm not sure whether that incident is where he dies or not.

RJ:  Well you're not supposed to be, are you! Once, Mat was hanging by his neck and Rand wasn't sure whether he caught a heartbeat or not. You see, the thing is Mat doesn't know. Mat thinks he's got a little ace in the hole but maybe he hasn't. Maybe he doesn't have that ace in the hole that he has a death to give yet, and still live, the way he thinks. Maybe. There's an acronym they use on the net, RAFO. Read and find out.

 

 

The Path of Daggers book tour 21 November 1998, VA - John Novak reporting

 

Balefire: If someone is balefired, the Dark One can't reincarnate them.  But they CAN be spun back out into the Pattern as normal.  Balefire is NOT the eternal death of the soul.  He also made a comment to the effect that even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the Dark One cannot bring someone back.   There was a long line, so I didn't press.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

What were the Forsaken's ages when they were sealed?

The rate of aging is dependent upon 1/x, where x is the strength of the channeler (according to RJ). Since some (like Rahvin) had grey hairs, it seems they must have been old. BWB say some channelers:..."...may have lived seven hundred years or more.".

 

The books imply that all souls get reborn.  Might some rebirths be also descendants of the people?

Yes, all get reborn. I think some are rebirths of descendants of reborn souls.  :-\

 

 

[Majsju]

What were the Forsaken's ages when they were sealed?

The rate of aging is dependent upon 1/x, where x is the strength of the channeler (according to RJ). Since some (like Rahvin) had grey hairs, it seems they must have been old. BWB say some channelers:..."...may have lived seven hundred years or more.".

 

Of course, some people get grey/white hairs at a very young age, so that by itself does not mean anything.

 

We can however assume that the forsaken where at least 3-400 years old, since they managed to reach the highest ranks of the Shadow. That indicates a fair deal of education and experience. On the other hand, RJ created a world where it is perfectly ok to to have 20somethings lead armies and massive campaigns...

[mb]

When using shadows to go to places, can myrddraal carry people during those times?

 

Is it possible to practice bonding without bonding someone?

 

What happens to Moiraine's book listing possible mothers of the Dragon Reborn?  (New Spring Chapter 18 does not mention it when she packs her pockets.)

 

[Sharaman]

What were the Forsaken's ages when they were sealed?

The rate of aging is dependent upon 1/x, where x is the strength of the channeler (according to RJ). Since some (like Rahvin) had grey hairs, it seems they must have been old. BWB say some channelers:..."...may have lived seven hundred years or more.".

 

The books imply that all souls get reborn.  Might some rebirths be also descendants of the people?

Yes, all get reborn. I think some are rebirths of descendants of reborn souls.  :-\

 

In several cases, I think it's mentioned that individuals had lived over 300 years. Demandred is LTT minus 1 day. Mesaana and Semirhage are 300+.

 

[acerbus80]

When using shadows to go to places, can myrddraal carry people during those times?

 

I doubt it.  If it were possible, the DO would be able to simple spirit assassins, grey men, forsaken, etc all over Randland without any of the pesky restrictions of traveling and completely wreak havoc.  I'm of the mindset that if it were possible, we probably would have already seen it, but then again, as far as I know, it may be possible and we just haven't seen it happen yet.

 

Is it possible to practice bonding without bonding someone?

 

An AS can form the bonding weave without actually applying it to someone, just like any other weave.

 

[mb]

Unless it's a very, very weak balefire.

Who told this and where?

 

 

Other questions:

 

Air with Fire allows a channeler to magnify its own voice.  Is there an equivalent weave that can magnify someone else's voice?  (like if the someone else is an non-channeler)

 

Of the 3 taveren, which is the oldest and which is the youngest?

 

[water_seeker]

Unless it's a very, very weak balefire.

Who told this and where?

 

I don't have references, but I'm sure RJ said something about there being a window of time where the DO can grab a soul before it slips away.  If that's true and the BF was small enough, it's possible that he could grab a BF'd soul.  I'm not sure that there could be BF that weak thought. :-\

 

 

Other questions:

 

Air with Fire allows a channeler to magnify its own voice.  Is there an equivalent weave that can magnify someone else's voice?  (like if the someone else is an non-channeler)

 

In Chp 36 LoC The Amyrlin is Raised Romanda uses the power to announce Egwene as Amyrlin and then when Egwene speaks, the weave shifts to her.  "The weave that had carried Romanda's voice shifted to her."  I would take that to mean that someone else's weave carried her voice and not that she took up the weave, otherwise we would have read something like, "She took up the weave that Romanda had used" or "She formed the same weave Romanda had used."

 

Of the 3 taveren, which is the oldest and which is the youngest?

 

That's an interesting question.  I'm not sure that we've been told.  All I remember is that they are all within weeks of each other.  I'd say that with Rand being found on the side of Dragonmount his exact date of birth could be called into question.

[Nightstrike]

There are definitely time constraints on the Dark One's power to transmigrate a soul. The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately - that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death - but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the pattern.

Weaker than when Moiraine BFed Be'lal. But then, Moiraine isn't one of the weakest Aes Sedai around.

 

[Packar]

In the same way we are now believing the health of the land is linked to Rands mental health / mood, I noticed in LOC that Mats wave of luck is at a low point (for him) at the same time Rand is in a bit of a downer - is this a one off, or has this been noted on other occasions? Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

[OptimusPrime]

Im not sure, but Im contemplating the idea that Mat and Perrin became Ta'veren because of Rand subconsciously willing the three of them to be important and in this together. Although that is a stretch I must admit.

[Nightstrike]

RJ's blog 5 October 2005 "YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS"

The Wheel creates ta’veren at need, making someone who is already alive one.  You aren’t born ta’veren.  Can you imagine being around a ta’veren who is teething?

It would be possible for a Darkfriend or Forsaken to be made ta’veren, but it seems unlikely.  Ta’veren are part of the Wheel’s self-correcting mechanism.  When the Pattern seems to be drifting too quickly, and especially if it is in the wrong direction, one or more ta’veren are created.  I can’t really see how making a Darkfriend or Forsaken ta’veren would help with correcting the drift of the Pattern.  Ta’veren can oppose one another, when their conflict is what the Wheel “sees” as the necessary corrective.  And, no, ta’veren is not Old Tongue for Deus ex machina.  It came out of musings on luck, charismatic leaders, and the theory of the indispensable man....Someone who sees ta’veren sees them as glowing.  The more strongly ta’veren, the brighter the glow.  This is a Talent, and is something that only someone who can channel can do.  While she was stilled, Siuan could not see ta’veren, nor could she have if she had been burned out.

 

[acerbus80]

Throughout much of the dialogue with different Aiel, there is frequently talk about the importance of blacksmiths, and how they can't be attacked or made gaishan.

 

Is there any explanation of why the Aiel view blacksmiths in such a way?

[Mr Ares]

Throughout much of the dialogue with different Aiel, there is frequently talk about the importance of blacksmiths, and how they can't be attacked or made gaishan.

 

Is there any explanation of why the Aiel view blacksmiths in such a way?

I don't recall a specific explanation being given (since when have the Aiel explained ji'e'toh to anyone?), but at a guess, they probably see them as too valuable.

[Majsju]

Throughout much of the dialogue with different Aiel, there is frequently talk about the importance of blacksmiths, and how they can't be attacked or made gaishan.

 

Is there any explanation of why the Aiel view blacksmiths in such a way?

I don't recall a specific explanation being given (since when have the Aiel explained ji'e'toh to anyone?), but at a guess, they probably see them as too valuable.

 

There is a quite thorough explanation provided by Brandon during the TGS signings. All those Q&As can be found on the TGS board.