Various Issues

[ROB_88]

if i remember it right, it is said during the battle with the trollocs at Cold Rocks Hold that his memories are what kept him alive with the ashanderei so it's not only suggested

[Tumeric]

wouldn't the inscription (thoought it the arrow of time/memory never fades)on the ashanderei suggest that it's linked to his memories? 

 

That and post-Rhuidean, he knows it for an ashanderei, rather than merely "wow, look at the cool stick with a knife on the end that the foxy dudes gave me!"

[RobertAlexWillis]

He knows that it is an ashandarei because that is what it is called in his memories.

 

And the inscription is what makes it a receipt; it describes what he got in the deal.

[Elwinn Taron]

Sorry, but Mat does not know it is called an 'ashandarei' until Birgette tells him in Ebou Dar.  This is after he remembers who Birgette really is.  He thinks about it on his way to the carriages to head for the Rahad to get the Bowl.  Until then he thinks of it as a "strange spear".

[RobertAlexWillis]

Sorry, but Mat does not know it is called an 'ashandarei' until Birgette tells him in Ebou Dar.  This is after he remembers who Birgette really is.  He thinks about it on his way to the carriages to head for the Rahad to get the Bowl.  Until then he thinks of it as a "strange spear".

 

Actually, that is true ...

 

... and very, very odd.

[Majsju]

Why is it odd? Mats memories only go that far back, and Birgitte might have gotten the name from an earlier point. Of course, Mat should have remembered some other name, since he remembers the fighting style, but ...Not necessarily.

[rhadamanthus]

Got confused last night while reading some of Matt's scenes in CoS (without a doubt, Matt's dialogue in CoS is the best in the entire series)...

 

Anyhow, in Swovan Night, where he finally remembers Brigitte and they go drinking, Brigitte mentions that she presumes Matt had not told Elayne and Nyn about the Horn.  Matt assumes they had told her and is surprised.

 

I'm confused and my copy of tGH is being borrowed.  Did Elayne and Nyn know about the horn and Brigitte is wrong - ergo, Matt is justifiably surprised that Birgitte thinks Elayne and Nyn don't know?

[Luckers]

Maj is correct--the ashendarei was made during the War of the Shadow, and Mat has no memories dating back to then.

 

I'd even go so far as to disagree with Maj--Mat doesn't know the ashendarei fighting style, he draws upon all the experience his memories offer of fighting (presumably including spear fighters) and uses them to utilize the ashendarei--and includes within that his own experiences with a quarterstaff.

 

 

[rhadamanthus]

Maj is correct--the ashendarei was made during the War of the Shadow, and Mat has no memories dating back to then.

 

I'd even go so far as to disagree with Maj--Mat doesn't know the ashendarei fighting style, he draws upon all the experience his memories offer of fighting (presumably including spear fighters) and uses them to utilize the ashendarei--and includes within that his own experiences with a quarterstaff.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure Rob88 is correct - in tSR he fights a myraddal (or a trolloc - can't remember) and recalls "knowing" how to use the ashandarei.  Weird.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its odd because he instantly knows how to fight with it, but doesn't know a name for it.  Not only does he not know it as an "ashandarei", but he doesn't know it by any other name either.  It is highly unusual to learn how to fight with a weapon and not know a name for it ... and unless there was some kind of persistent ta'veren overdrive, then he had to get the memory of how to fight with it from his memories.  Learning to fight with a quarterstaff or a spear (or even a quarterstaff and a spear) does not prepare you for fighting with a naginata.  The balance, striking techniques ... everything is different.

 

So, apparently he got the knowledge of how to use it from his implanted memories, but not any name for the weapon?  That is odd ... at least to me.

[Majsju]

I'd even go so far as to disagree with Maj--Mat doesn't know the ashendarei fighting style, he draws upon all the experience his memories offer of fighting (presumably including spear fighters) and uses them to utilize the ashendarei--and includes within that his own experiences with a quarterstaff.

 

 

 

Possibly, though I think it is quite reasonale that the weapon existed at at least parts of the timewindow Mats memories comes from. After all, he is not puzzling anything together, he is immidiatly showing expertice with the weapon. That it is a weapon that actually does exist also speaks in favour of Mat having "used" it, or something similar enough to not make any difference.

 

Not that it really matters one way or the other, of course ;D

 

Its odd because he instantly knows how to fight with it, but doesn't know a name for it.  Not only does he not know it as an "ashandarei", but he doesn't know it by any other name either.  It is highly unusual to learn how to fight with a weapon and not know a name for it ... and unless there was some kind of persistent ta'veren overdrive, then he had to get the memory of how to fight with it from his memories.  Learning to fight with a quarterstaff or a spear (or even a quarterstaff and a spear) does not prepare you for fighting with a naginata.  The balance, striking techniques ... everything is different.

 

So, apparently he got the knowledge of how to use it from his implanted memories, but not any name for the weapon?  That is odd ... at least to me.

 

Thing is, Mats memories are not complete, he gets bits and pieces from all over the place. And the memories are restricted to what the people who "gave" the memories in the first place experiences. What they see, hear etc, including thinks. A soldier knows what weapon he is carrying, there is no need to name it every time he has to use it.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Thing is, Mats memories are not complete, he gets bits and pieces from all over the place. And the memories are restricted to what the people who "gave" the memories in the first place experiences. What they see, hear etc, including thinks. A soldier knows what weapon he is carrying, there is no need to name it every time he has to use it.

 

hmmm ... I'm not so sure I buy that.  The memory of the weapon has to be tied to a name ... thats how we remember most things, once we learn language ... I mean, maybe the name doesn't surface in a "stream of consciousness" fashion each time it is wielded, but he clearly has more than just the immediate streams of consciousness from his memories ...

 

... but then, he doesn't in other cases ... I guess its possible that he got the fighting techniques without a name, but it still strikes me as odd.

[Cillian]

I might be wrong as i haven't read the book in a loooooong time, but I seem to recall Mat using the Ashandarei like a quarterstaff but compensating for the blade at the end.

 

But like I said, It's been ages, so.....

[Eleint]

It is mentioned at one point, I believe.

 

At any rate, I think people are trying to explain in realistic terms something that isn't realistic.  This is the same setting that has men talking to wolves and fighting 5-10 people at once, and winning.

 

Just accept it as a bow to high fantasy and that Mat really is that good, that he can adapt quarterstaff to a naginata-like weapon.  Realistic?  No.  But in the same vein as many pulp or high fantasy heroes.

[Kadere]

Got confused last night while reading some of Matt's scenes in CoS (without a doubt, Matt's dialogue in CoS is the best in the entire series)...

 

Anyhow, in Swovan Night, where he finally remembers Brigitte and they go drinking, Brigitte mentions that she presumes Matt had not told Elayne and Nyn about the Horn.  Matt assumes they had told her and is surprised.

 

I'm confused and my copy of tGH is being borrowed.  Did Elayne and Nyn know about the horn and Brigitte is wrong - ergo, Matt is justifiably surprised that Birgitte thinks Elayne and Nyn don't know?

 

At the end of TDR Moiraine tells the whole room that Mat blew the Horn of Valere. Elayne and Nynaeve are both present at this, so they should know. Brigitte is probably just wrong and assumes they don't know.

[rhadamanthus]

Thanks Kadere.

[arkinia]

I recall something like Cillian said too maybe.

 

Also language and motor skills (name of the weapon, how you fight with the weapon) I think are stored in different parts of your brain, so the two do not have to be connected in my opinion.

[Dark Justice]

One thing I was wondering. How did Fain get to Baerlon (or whatever its called) pretty much at the same time as team Moraine? They destroied the boat when they crossed the river, and moved really fast after that. So Fain had to have crossed the river ahead of them. But his horses were at the inn in Emonds Field. If someone had stolen a horse in Two Rivers, everyone would have known about it ASAP. So.. Whats going on??

[RobertAlexWillis]

Fain didn't cross the river before Moiraine and the boys, he was forced by a Myrddraal to run with the Trollocs chasing Rand and co. until they reached the Taren.  The Myrddraal sent him across alone while it took the Trollocs back to the Waygate.  He must have used a small boat to cross, or swam across.  It is easier for someone to cross alone than with a group.  After he crossed, he was met by another Myrddraal and half ran, half dragged and carried by Trollocs until Shadar Logoth.  Of course, we know what happened then.

 

See Moiraine's account of her interrogation of Fain in tEotW ch 47.

[mb]

Might Skimming allow time-travel?

 

How did Semirhage drain Cabriana's knowledge?

 

How did Moghedien cast Birgitte out from Telaranrhiod?

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Might Skimming allow time-travel?

 

Um ... no?

 

How did Semirhage drain Cabriana's knowledge?

 

My guess is torture.

 

How did Moghedien cast Birgitte out from Telaranrhiod?

 

She channeled, but we have no idea what specifically that channeling was.  My guess is an awful lot of Spirit was involved though.

[Dark Justice]

Surely. Ho could I have forgotten all this? that is just silly...

 

*tries to find someone to blame*

[mb]

Gray Men are used as assassins.  What happens to a Gray Man that succeeds in assassinating the target; does it cease to exist or is it given a new target?

Would killing/attacking someone else besides the target be possible for them?

I guess they would go directly to the target; would this be correct?

How long would a Gray Man's life span be if it is not killed?

Would an Aes Sedia (bound to the third oath) classify Gray Men as shadowspawn or not?

Would a Gray Man be able to tell who sent it?

 

People who enter Telaranrhiod in the flesh causes them to loose a part of what makes them human.  What happens when the process is complete?

 

Rand's taverenness is known to affect an entire city; would Mat's taverenness & Perrin's taverenness affect just their presence?

 

[Nightstrike]

Gray Men are used as assassins.  What happens to a Gray Man that succeeds in assassinating the target; does it cease to exist or is it given a new target?

I don't know. I guess they will go back to their master if they can escape.

 

Would killing/attacking someone else besides the target be possible for them?

I don't know. Maybe it depends on what the instructions were.

 

Would an Aes Sedia (bound to the third oath) classify Gray Men as shadowspawn or not?

They are listed as Shadowspawn in the big white book.

 

Would a Gray Man be able to tell who sent it?

I believe it could. They can speak (according to "Thus Spake the Creator"). But I bet they wouldn't speak unless instructed to.

 

People who enter Telaranrhiod in the flesh causes them to loose a part of what makes them human.  What happens when the process is complete?

I don't know about that. Slayer smelled unhuman to Perrin... I guess that's one of those "RAFO".

 

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

People who enter Telaranrhiod in the flesh causes them to loose a part of what makes them human.

 

That is not established as fact.  It is what the Dreamwalkers believe.

 

If there has been someone/something like Slayer in the past, such a being could be the source of that belief for the Aiel.  Slayer has lots of other reasons to smell inhuman.  The Dreamwalkers may be confusing an ability with a cause.