Rand And Elaida

[Darth_Andrea]

One thing has been bothering me a bit. Why after Dumi Wells and all the other crap that Elaida did, why didn't Rand give Public support to Egwene? It would have weakened Elaida's position in claiming to be Amerlyn and strengthened Egwene. Plus as such it would have made Elaida's proclomation that rulers could only approach Rand through her and the tower moot.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]   

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Hmmmmmm,

 

On the face of it, maybe, kinda, but...

 

It would have publicized the split in the Tower.  That would only heighten the general sense of anxiety.  It would also more firmly entrench the more intransigent members of both camps.  That would lead to a lessened chance for the Tower to heal to the extent Rand needs.  It might have led to open warfare between the two camps.

 

Plus it would make Egwene more of a target for nutjobs and those trying to curry favor with the Tower.  It might have led the Tower to kill Egwene as soon as they captured her.

 

Overall, not enough plusses and too many minuses.

[Darth_Andrea]

Hmmmmmm,

 

On the face of it, maybe, kinda, but...

 

It would have publicized the split in the Tower.  That would only heighten the general sense of anxiety.  It would also more firmly entrench the more intransigent members of both camps.  That would lead to a lessened chance for the Tower to heal to the extent Rand needs.  It might have led to open warfare between the two camps.

 

Plus it would make Egwene more of a target for nutjobs and those trying to curry favor with the Tower.  It might have led the Tower to kill Egwene as soon as they captured her.

 

Overall, not enough plusses and too many minuses.

 

 

I don't think they would kill her. That would bring Rand and every Ashaman he has at his disposial down on their heads. Rand would have ripped the tower apart if they had and he found out about it. Knowing her connection to him as Eladia dose, I'm suprised she has done what she has conserning Egwene. Though by that point she is quite the drunk and isn't exactly thinking clearly.

 

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]   

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

;D ;D

 

Indeed.  Have we ever seen Elaida think clearly?  I can't recall an instance.

 

My guess is that Elaida considers Egwene a string to Rand.  If Elaida can 'tame' her, then she can probably also brainwash her into using her influence to get Rand on-board with whatever Elaida's program is.

 

As usual, Elaida is destined to be disappointed.

[Fundy]

I think Rand realizes public support from the Dragon Reborn might do just as much damage as good. Not everyone in Randland is happy/comfortable with the Dragon being reborn. As it stands now it is an Aes Sedai problem, that is being handled by Aes Sedai. Plus after the way Elayne responded to his help with her throne I think he's more apt to let the women deal with things their own way.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Right.

 

Not just the mayor and the town council but even old Cenn Buie have sense enough to keep their noses out of Women's Circle business.

 

 

Most of the time ;)

[Kaznen]

Also, concerning how people view AS, if Rand were to Publicly support either faction other would think the AS are in control.

 

Remember what he told Perrin about the split.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Besides the fact that Rand trusts NO AS. Egwene included I think. She's his friend but politically he doesn't trust her. Remember he is the dragon reborn. They should publicly declare their support for him.

[DuDZiK]

For those who have studied history, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that Rand trying to influence the White Tower and the Aes Sedai would probably lead to something like the Investiture Controversy:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investiture_Controversy

 

The idea behind my analogy is that a secular power tries to interfere with a non-secular one. Yes, Tar Valon is an independent state run by the Aes Sedai and it does have some secular functions within itself, as well as alot of secular influence without but so too did the Roman Catholic Church: i.e., the Papal States in Italy. They also weilded alot of secular influence, specifically regarding diplomacy in trying to get certain kings and nobles to behave a certain way, like stop warring against each other. Sounds alot like what the Aes Sedai do eh? Well, the Pope also was responsible for whipping up a sense of Christian unity for things like the Crusades, so they could fight together in the name of their God against the evil infidels... kind of like how the Aes Sedai did during the Trolloc Wars, or when the Aiel invaded Cairhien and how they tried to form some sort of unified body of the nations.

[aslansrevenge]

I think Rand realizes public support from the Dragon Reborn might do just as much damage as good. Not everyone in Randland is happy/comfortable with the Dragon being reborn. As it stands now it is an Aes Sedai problem, that is being handled by Aes Sedai. Plus after the way Elayne responded to his help with her throne I think he's more apt to let the women deal with things their own way.

 

I think that this might be the main reason and what man want to get between 2 women fighting let alone 2 Aes Sedia and the armys

[DemandredFO]

Egwene has enough made up reasons to hate Rand.  He doesn't need to give her a real one.

[RAND AL THOR]

I think Rand realizes public support from the Dragon Reborn might do just as much damage as good. Not everyone in Randland is happy/comfortable with the Dragon being reborn. As it stands now it is an Aes Sedai problem, that is being handled by Aes Sedai. Plus after the way Elayne responded to his help with her throne I think he's more apt to let the women deal with things their own way.

 

Exactly.

 

And lets not forget what happened to Salidar's embassy. They disobeyed Rand and brought more AS to Cairhien than he had told them to. That doesn't look well in Rand's eyes. Most of us are looking from our reader's point of view but try looking at Rand's POV. To him, embassies from both AS factions failed him and he could trust neither.

 

I don't blame him.

 

Elaida-must-be-stilled-and-then-healed-by-a-woman.

 

Then her strength would be so low that she has to wait on many sisters and she'd just die from the humiliation and fall from grace.

[Safia al-Maaz]

Plus Elaida is just an idiot.  Give her a break, she can't help it... ::)

[Elgee]

I can't recall now: exactly when does Rand find out that Egwene is in fact the Amyrlin of the Salidar faction, rather than just a runaway Accepted summoned back?

 

Judging by Narishma's message to the Sitters from Salidar, he knows it by Book 11 - but is there any mention of it before then?

[Asmo]

Nynaeve told him when they met in Caemlyn prior to them going to Far Madding in Book 9.

[Elgee]

Aah!

 

Thanks, Asmo  :D

[Darth_Andrea]

Given everything thats been said I can see the points that have been made. Still though, I'm sure Rand could find away of issueing some kind of support behind Egwene that, A) wouldn't piss her off, and , B) wouldn't weaken her position. That is if he wanted to.

 

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]   

[Kaznen]

It's also a question of who should be in control.  The AS (all who aren't sworn to him and Cadusaune) think the AS should be in control of all things dragonish, with him as a symbol but no real power, then come TG "well go get him 'Lord Dragon.'"

 

Rand thinks otherwise.

[DemandredFO]

It pisses her off that he's a Ta'veren, I don't think there's anything he can do that won't piss her off.

[RAND AL THOR]

It pisses her off that he's a Ta'veren, I don't think there's anything he can do that won't piss her off.

 

I guess that's true. ;)

[Bob T Dwarf]

Is there anything that anyone can do that won't turn her crank?

[Vemynal]

do what she says probably, but that would be a down and out recipe for disaster

[Bob T Dwarf]

Then she'd be wound-up because you botched it.

 

She's the Amyrlin Seat - it couldn't have been her mistake.

[Snowy Dawn]

He gave the Salidar Aes Sedai 47 asha'man as warders. This was not done all that publicly, but the word will get around fairly quickly. For example, it won't be long before Pevara, Tarna, and the other four that went to the Black Tower learn of this. How will the Tower Aes Sedai react, I wonder? Those that know about Dumai's Wells will understand, but still be angry, I suspect. Elaida will be furious and guilt-stricken both at the same time. Not a good thing on top of her other emotional problems.

[Safia al-Maaz]

Someone needs to stick her in a shielded rubber room where she can't hurt herself or anyone else.