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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Asmo

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Everything posted by Asmo

  1. Well, Rahvin was the best ruler. He smoothly picked up Caemlyn straight from Morgase, and led the nation straight according to plan, until he got slapped out of existence by Rand's Balefire. I'd say Graendal, but Graendal went into a nation which was in chaos, so it was very easy to establish control with lesser deftness than was needed in Andor. Taim would qualify, but since, at the moment, we don't know whether he is supported by another person and whom, it might be a little unfair to give him all the credit. "Good" rulers doesn't neccessarily mean "Walking-in-the-Light" rulers. Rand is a bad ruler, rebellion breeds wherever he sets his foot. He tries, though.
  2. Lanfear is stronger than all females, Asmodean, and very likely Be'lal and Balthamel. She is definately weaker than Ishamael, Demandred, Rahvin and Sammael. We cannot make a valid comparison between her and Aginor without a lot of guesswork. While it is convenient to discard Forsaken statements as lies, they are still, generally, more reliable than random Third Age statements. Still, facts drawn straight from the books hold even more weight. An untrained Rand, while trying to defend his mind from Lews Therin and thus severely distracted, was able to hold off Lanfear's attacks while at a disadvantage, and still estimate he had enough strength to spare to kill her if he chose. Yes, they were using angreal, but Rand thought his was a weak one, in a quote unrelated to Callandor and much earlier than he learnt about the Choedan Kal, and anyway we see it can't pump him up to more than twice his strength, if that - Elayne thought of an angreal that bumped her to twice Nynaeve's strength, so much more than twice her level, as only middling strong. We don't have any implications about Lanfear's ivory bracelet, since neither Moiraine nor Lanfear commented on it, but if it was merely middling strong it should still be stronger than Rand's. Only a few chapters later Rand said that Rahvin was equal to him in strength and superior in knowledge, but he had the advantage due to his angreal - still later, when Rand came into contact with him and was able to sense his strength, said statement was not revoked - Rahvin said he and Sammael were drawing about the same amount of the Power but he was holding almost to his limit, and then Sammael proceeded to draw more, implying that Sammael is somewhat stronger. Demandred scared Aginor, but when the latter masqueraded as Dashiva post his rebirth, he was almost as strong as Rand when he was stated to draw as much as he could, and Rand had become stronger than during his fight against Rahvin. Aginor could probably tackle Balthamel with relative ease according to RJ's statement. Ishamael > Demandred > Aginor >/=/< Sammael >= Rahvin > Lanfear. EDIT: Hmm, just realized I haven't posted here in a while.
  3. It's pretty damn obvious that Moiraine learnt Balefire after the EotW. If she knew it back then, she'd have used it on Aginor like she did with Be'lal. There's not even a question there IMO.
  4. The unstained Tower broke with the rebellion. To see through the second part, you must remember who the Aes Sedai who knelt to the Dragon were - they were the ambassadors from the two parts of the Tower, namely the representatives of their respective factions. In a sense, they were the Tower, standing for its views, ideals, standards, everything when dealing with the Dragon Reborn. They had not gone there as individual Aes Sedai, they had gone as the White Tower. Thus, the unstained Tower, broken, did bent knee to the forgotten sign. Now that Egwene is taking hold of the Aes Sedai, the kneeling will probably start going the other way. Unfortunately...
  5. Verin? Darkfriend? Lolwut?! Verin clearly struggles her way around the Oath against lying when she 'questions' Beldeine. If she is not bound to that Oath, why struggle and not just say what she wants to say without thinking of it? Why would the thought that what she was saying was circumventing the Oath even cross her mind, if the need to circumvent said Oath was not present? Verin is bound by the Oaths. The only evidence against that, the point about Moiraine sending her, is not only easily interpretable as evasion, but is also perceived by other Aes Sedai as such - if not, why didn't Moiraine come straight out and accuse her? No, Moiraine was suspicious of Verin's intentions, not that she was a Darkfriend. So, an Oathbound Aes Sedai. Admittedly, that doesn't neccessarily mean she is no Darkfriend at heart - she would not need to associate herself with the Black Ajah to aid the Shadow, and as long as she didn't, she could swear not to lie on the Rod and say "I am not of the Black Ajah", and all suspicions against her would be lifted - unless more intensive questioning was employed, at least. So there's a case that Verin's a non-BA Darkfriend. It doesn't make much sense, since an unbound Aes Sedai could better serve the Shadow, Black Ajah or not, unless Verin belongs to an order of Darkfriend Aes Sedai specifically made to look as if they are not Black Ajah when questioned in the way Pevara and her company did to suspected Darkfriends. This is too overly complicated to just pop up in the last book though, with so many BA POVs so far, including Alviarin, who must at least be aware of that 'order'. But most importantly, everything Verin has ever done is justified as and happens so that it serves the Light and the Dragon Reborn. Elza's actions serve the Dragon Reborn, but are justified as a means of ensuring the Dark One's victory. Same goes with many characters who serve one side or the other, but explain their actions as serving a different goal. We've had many Verin POVs, but not in one is it implied that she serves some goal other than the stated one. As for the seventy-year-old project and the unhealed scratch. We know there are things that can cause wounds that cannot be cured. We know of two - the taint in Shadar Logoth and what is presumably a True Power-wrought weapon or attack. There might be others. In Tel'aran'rhiod, something may have happened that caused one of these wounds. It's all more possible there, as the Wise Ones have implied on occasion. Nothing special to see there. The seventy-year-old project, we have no means of uncovering right now, but we know it doesn't serve the Shadow due to all the above. There's simply no case for Verin being a Darkfriend, and strong case against. That settles it in my view.
  6. Well, yeah. Moving a mountain with flows of Air would probably be impossible by any standards. Causing the earth to erupt so that a mountain was raised (elsewhere) is a plausible result if lots of male channelers randomly weave flows all at once. Which was pretty much what was happening.
  7. Sisters was quite an obvious reference at that point - the fact that she may be referring to siblings never crossed my mind. I'm not certain, but I also think 'S' was capitalized at that point, although it was changed later. I might be mistaken though. Moiraine, I don't think she could have killed a hundred Trollocs, because she has a weak proficiency with Fire and Earth which are kinda neccessary for mass-killing. Even with her angreal she could only erect a wall for so long to prevent them from coming at her, and she was nearly exhausted. If the six other sisters mentioned are of the same type as Moiraine, and half as strong or even lower, I don't find it absurd that they'd have trouble dealing with a hundred Trollocs. I think we are mostly overestimating Aes Sedai. The gap between Moiraine and Elayne and her equals is tremendous.
  8. Oh. That was actually quite funny, because I had just read a response of yours in another thread, telling another poster that he did not address your argument fully. Anyway, I'll reply to this post first and address the others in the end of my post. That comment was before he learnt about Callandor's weakness. Afterwards, no fear is expressed towards experiencing the same effect with the Choedan Kal. Why? Because up to that point, he believed that the taint magnification was an after-effect of the overflow of the Power, and with the CK, it'd be much worse. Which wasn't the case, as he found out. And again... he didn't fear the Forsaken because he did intend to bring assistance, as I explain further below... Then why not put it behind a warded wall like he did with the access keys? Why bother gathering it with him, bother so much that he actually debated bringing it into the city against burying it in the ground, of all things? Clearly he intended something with it. And also, he didn't bring it to the Royal Palace in Caemlyn - someone would've recognized it, or at least see something unusual, there, covered in cloth or not. So bringing it in for safekeeping was not the reason - because if it was, where was it all the time until he went to Far Madding? Probably kept somewhere safe, where it could have remained indefinately until it was needed. Why did he need it there, where it could be retrieved right before he went to the Cleansing? Did he intend to use them both? I doubt it. He intended it for someone else. Cadsuane and her party arriving made these plans easier. Also, it sort of explains, somewhat, his relative apathy at learning they were there, but his agitation over finding out Narishma, Hopwil and Flinn had been bonded. Yeah. I wasn't the one who said he was planning to use the Choedan Kal since Book 6. Another person did, and he was wrong, because it's only after Cadsuane explains about Callandor in book 8 that he thinks "He had hoped it would be enough for another purpose, but now..." or something to that extent, and reasons out that the use of the Choedan Kal is neccessary. Misled by Lanfear? Lanfear herself thinks they could challenge the Dark One or the Creator with those. She might be misled herself, but it wasn't intentional. Anyway, I didn't say they'd go and destroy the Dark One. I said they'd go and destroy Shayol Ghul, destroying the Trolloc hives, the Myrddraal-blade creation centers and everything else that is there that aids the Shadow. As I already said - all they needed was travel from spot to spot in the Blight and nuke it. The end of all Shadowspawn currently not outside the Blight. And they could always bring together other Aes Sedai to protect them, or do so for each other - after all, only one is needed to use the access key. Sort of like a bomber - you escort it with fighters, bring it to the spot, drop the nuke. Considering the speed of travelling over small distances, they hardly needed to worry about channelers coming to get them. If they did, after all. Let's not forget that noone, noone would consider daring going to that thing in the current age, noone came to Shadar Logoth except the bunch of coerced Forsaken, why, because if the user was actively using the Choedan Kal for some purpose that didn't require their full attention like the Cleansing, and they redirected even a trickle of what they held at them, they'd be burnt away instantly, turned to dust, vaporized. Only the male madmen would go there, but males can't sense saidin the same way as women - they'd probably feel the goosebumps, but couldn't identify the location, and if they went into the Blight, there'd be noone of any consequence to see their nuking around anyway. Plausible, but never hinted at. For two people who could essentially cripple the Shadow for a very long time, they have put a lot of weight in a prophecy. And alright, there is a prophecy dictating that the access keys go to the Aiel. The Aes Sedai decide that, beyond all doubt, they have interpreted the prophecy correctly, and do send the things with them. Then why, why just leave them unprotected like that? Why not simply go with them, ensuring their safety (after all, they'd be able to use the Choedan Kal as they wished if they were in overwhelming danger), until they went somewhere safe? Unless the Prophecy also said the Aiel had to go alone? That sounds like a hell of a convenient prophecy. That was obviously a flawed method. Who says there can't be another? And anyway, trying to cleanse the taint was only one of the things they could do. Huh? I thought the Blight became the home of Shadowspawn when the Forsaken were still experimenting with them, that is, before the sealing occured. They had to have gathered somewhere by that point, and if you ask me, they had already settled in by the time the Breaking occured. On the other hand, I'm mostly speculating based on what is given to us - if you have a solid source, then you're obviously correct here and the argument is void. No, I'm aware that the ter'angreal were just a way to get the Aiel out of the fray, which makes it difficult to believe that that was really a plot to get the access keys out of the fray. Certainly possible though, and clever if it was that. But if they wanted to protect the access keys, or even just the Aiel for that matter, why not go with them for protection? There are ways to shield from such things though. Go to an open place, where everything is visible for a large distance. Weave and tie a barrier around them like Rand's on the Cairhien docks or the Asha'man's in Dumai's Wells, before drawing on the Choedan Kal, and then doing what they needed to do (the barrier may or may not stop the use of the Power from within, depending on how it is constructed, but even if it does that still wouldn't stop those inside from channeling Earth flows to tear what they wanted destroyed apart, or thunderstorms from above for that matter. I believe I've addressed what would happen if channelers sensed the use of the Choedan Kal adequately above. Sane females would stay away, and insane males wouldn't feel anything if they were using only the female one. The possibility of two sole Aes Sedai wielding the strongest sa'angreal dying and their possessions stolen is very, very small compared to the possibility of a large group of peace-loving people who wouldn't even lift a hand to defend themselves and obviously carrying something valuable dying. It's a matter of possibilities. Phew. EDIT: I'm fairly confident that, by this point, we've completely killed the argument for everyone else. I just can't resist a good textwall war.
  9. That was before he learnt that Callandor had that specific weakness. After that, he stopped worrying about going nuts from the immense amount of the Power. Early in WH, when he and Min sneak out of Cairhien, Rand declares that he will cleanse the Source, but killing Dashiva and the others has to come first. He explains that if he uses the Choedan Kal, everyone will feel it and Forsaken and DF Asha'man might come after him, but he probably won't be able to stop what he's doing to deal with them. He says he can't do anything about the Forsaken, but he can at least make sure the renegades can't interfere, and with a little luck, the rest will work out. So he was worried about being attacked, and it's pretty obvious what he meant to do. He meant to go back to Cairhien, fetch Narishma and Flinn who he knew were trustworthy along with a few Dragonsworn sisters, and give Callandor to them. I mean, if that wasn't the plan, why even take Callandor with him to Far Madding?
  10. Well, that doesn't really matter, since Callandor's weakness isn't shared by the Choedan Kal. Rand didn't fear using the Choedan Kal because of the taint magnification, he feared using them for more direct reasons, such as getting overwhelmed by armies of DF Asha'man and Black Ajah and Forsaken when he starts the Cleansing, or getting that weird sickness while he's channeling through them and lose control. There's one tiny task that is vaguely outlined by Rand... "With the other, he could Skim to Shayol Ghul itself, put an end to everything..." (not exact quote). Of course, the Bore had been patched by then, but still, we know that Shayol Ghul was operational. Why not be done with Shadowspawn? And for that reason, with the thing itself? Impossible. Perhaps it was impossible. From what we know, it is probably impossible. But they wouldn't really know it yet. They must have at least speculated that there could be some way of cleansing the Source, and what better way to find it than start looking for it? They could go to the Blight and take care of what was there, not randomly chase down Shadowspawn and Darkfriends across the world. Once the core is dealt with, the rest can be taken care of in due course. As for testing... I cannot know what ways there were to 'test' the thing without using it, but couldn't they at least try to do that? I guess that makes sense, I suppose. Hmm, which reminds me, did we have a POV of one of those Aes Sedai or was it just the Aiel fellow? I need to go back and check. However, I doubt there was anything in their thoughts that implied as such. Not to say that it neccessarily bars the possibility, but if RJ's intention was to convey that, he could've at least hinted at it in their thoughts, if not outright say it. You have Rand and the Cleansing in mind. Rand was directing his flows to do a specific thing, and he doubted he could change them to do something else if they came after him, once he had begun. This does in no way restrict the uses the Choedan Kal can be put to. Not to mention, noone would dare come lose - most of the Forsaken didn't want to do it, and they knew what Rand would be doing - but even if they did, as long as the user's attention was not wholly put to doing something, he could simply annihilate them on the spot. There are also wards, barriers etc etc. Moreover, here's this (supposing a Foretelling wasn't involved): Let's say they won't use the things. Why not at least keep them on their persons, so if the need presents itself, they have them ready? And if not that, entrusting them to a bunch of peace-loving fellows whom the first warmonger could completely annihilate without retaliation, and thus claim their possessions, is probably the least safe place to put the world's most powerful weapons. Heck, destroying them would have been smarter than that. Oh, and in an earlier response, I don't think the Aes Sedai would have just given out a bunch of unidentified objects to the Aiel. Remember some ter'angreal do not need anything special to trigger.
  11. Keeping weaves can maintain everything they cover under the state it was when the Keeping was used, so Rand's body can be maintained and ressurected later, if time is the issue. To address the original topic, Callandor will probably be used by Narishma in the Last Battle where Rand uses the Choedan Kal for some other purpose, and in the very end Rand might use Callandor for something else, because after all, it's a sword and fantasy epics must revolve around swords.
  12. I'd read them. I don't mind knowing how the story ends or what happens, it's how things develop that matters to me. Wheel of Time is an exception as I never ever read anything except the books in strict order, but for many books like the Blak Magician Trilogy I had read almost a chapter-by-chapter analysis of the books before I even picked up the first. I still enjoyed it immensely.
  13. To do the thing they were built for - start killing Shadowspawn. Heck, use them as a weapon against insane male channelers and Dreadlords. And more importantly, start trying to figure out a way to cleanse saidin. A Foretelling for them to entrust the Choedan Kal access keys with the Aiel? Eh. Maybe, but it sounds like a strange Foretelling. More importantly, it doesn't look like something open to interpretation, which means that the Foretelling would have to be very specific in order for the Aes Sedai not only to understand it this way but to be so certain of it that they would leave the world's strongest weapons with a bunch of Aiel going who-knows-where. No Foretelling we've seen so far is that clear. He was afraid because he had experienced the magnification of the taint induced by Callandor, and was afraid that that was the result of the overwhelming Power. Later on, he was afraid because of the channeling sickness he was suffering due to his link to Moridin, fearing what would happen if it struck when he had hold of the Power, especially using a sa'angreal. Forget about the Cleansing. They could be put to simpler uses - wipe out Shadowspawn and Darkfriends. Post-Breaking Aes Sedai really needed to do that. They wouldn't know what they were carrying? Age of Legends Aes Sedai probably had perfect knowledge of the objects of the Power in their possession - no use judging them by Third Age standards. The access keys were constructed at that time - for them to have them, it means they were somehow involved in the story, so they would know what they were. And male one aside, why not use the female one?
  14. Weren't the pair of them that Rand found amonst the stuff that the Aiel took from the Aes Sedai to Rhuidean? (I'm not sure, asking here). If they had them back then, why didn't they use them on the spot?
  15. Book 1 - The Eye of the World, named thus because of the quest to find, well, the Eye of the World Book 2 - The Great Hunt, named thus out of the boys' quest to find the Horn Book 3 - The Dragon Reborn, named thus since Rand came to grips with his identity in this book Book 4 - The Shadow Rising, for the first time Rand confronted concentrated plots and schemes of the Shadow which starts taking a more organized form now, instead of the random Forsaken here and there Book 5 - The Fires of Heaven, named from Balefire Book 6 - The Lord of Chaos, named as such because chaos rages across the world with the kidnapping of Rand and the rise of the Asha'man Book 7 - The Crown of Swords, named thus out of the crown Rand claimed in the end of the book Book 8 - The Path of Daggers, I can't point my finger why exactly it's named like this. Probably from the events in Altara, but it's still metaphorical Book 9 - Winter's Heart, for one thing it takes place in the heart of winter, for another it represents Rand's cold heart Book 10 - Crossroads of Twilight, named because the "reality rippling" that causes ghosts to appear happens at crossroads and during twilight, probably indicating the coming of the Last Battle Book 11 - Knife of Dreams, no idea Thought it might help a little. The names are generally fine, except some of the last ones.
  16. Demandred might have guessed the Cleansing's aftermath would destroy Shadar Logoth, but the process had just begun. And besides, he opened the gateway, checked inside to see if things were being destroyed left and right, saw that it was - rather - peaceful, and went through. There's nothing illogical about this.
  17. I'd like it if one of the Forsaken wasn't, in fact, broken. I'd prefer it if Semirhage escaped or better yet persevered and remained defiant. But then again, she herself has stated she will not be a sacrifice, and has already started aiding the Light by telling everyone of Rand's condition. I think no persuasion will be needed to make her talk. Especially since I think - hope - it's all part of a big plan of hers.
  18. I believe we should also see things in perspective here. Yes, the Aes Sedai do give up some of their priviledges through the Oaths, but... Making weapons with the Power is something only they can do anyway. Killing with the Power is something only they can do anyway. So those two Oaths really don't restrict them in a way below the normal capacities of a normal person. Their lifespan is nearly three times as long even with the Oaths, and the people would probably consider giving up lying a fair exchange for wielding the Power to make everything easier. Perhaps it's not quite the right thing to do, but people in Randland may view it as the only way to be right - an Aes Sedai's capacity is still above them except for the ability to lie. Perhaps the Aes Sedai themselves think of the matter as such. A price to pay for being Aes Sedai. Now if the Aes Sedai could prove that the excess of their abilities was used for the good of the society and never for evil, such as the Aes Sedai in the AoL did, then the people might accept the Aes Sedai unbound, and the Aes Sedai themselves, once they stop seeing themselves as "different flesh", as most if not all do, they would accept being unbound as well. But all the people see is a bunch of sorceresses using their strength for their own good and the good of the Tower, and trying to manipulate everything into helping that cause. But I kind of like the idea of them remaining bound. In a realistic situation, nothing is perfect, and the Aes Sedai's organization shouldn't be an exception. The Oaths are a fine example of what could be improved upon in aMoL, but shouldn't. Why? Because it could be one of the 'stains' left behind, one of the things never corrected. Some speculate that after aMoL Randland will be "perfect". I disagree with that notion. I want the Oaths to remain, simply because they aren't a good thing.
  19. Well I'm not quite fond of the Aes Sedai "bonding themselves like criminals". But in the current time, perhaps it's neccessary. Perhaps whatever the current Aes Sedai did would not ease the public's fear and distrust over a reasonable period of time. Perhaps distrust within the Aes Sedai will increase as well, since it will be even harder to capture those who are Black Ajah (well, the Aes Sedai are distrustful towards each other anyway). The point is, they're doing it wrong. If they're going to bind themselves, they might as well do it in a way that at least ensures they keep to what they promise amd purges the Darkfriends from their ranks. Win.
  20. I'd balefire Cadsuane right at this moment, so Rand can't learn laughter and tears (presumably that's what he will be taught by her). Then Rand can win the Last Battle and be a Dark Dragon.
  21. Uh, that can't be done. Read the last Oath I wrote. Compelled or not, you simply can't disobey an Oath. If sisters were forced to through Compulsion, they would most likely die. The commandments idea is very good, and if the Oath Rod does reduce lifespan according to the number of Oaths, it could be more than useful. Your suggestions for commandments, though... as Luckers pointed out, they are a sure-fire way for disaster. Commandments I would suggest: 1) Never use the One Power as a weapon except against Shadowspawn or om defense of your own life, the life of your Warder or a sister or her Warder, or in defense of the White Tower, or to prevent Darkfriends from escaping from justice. 2) Never foreswear the Oath to obey the commandments. 3) Accept the commandments as they are set by the Amyrlin Seat and the Hall of the Tower, and no other commandments. 4) Never lie, unless it is done solely to cause harm to the Shadow or in the last defense of your own life, the life of your Warder or a sister or her Warder, or in defense of the White Tower. 5) Submit all knowledge concerning the actions of the Shadow you acquire with all possible speed to the Hall of the Tower. 6) Don't make Power-wrought weapons. 7) Never do anything that has a possibility of aiding the Shadow, unless doing otherwise will do more harm to the Light. 8) Accord to the instructions of those ranked above you, unless you feel doing so may endanger the Tower, the lives of sisters or others. 9) Never use the Power in a way that might have disastrous consequences without first bringing the subject up with the Hall of the Tower and the Amyrlin Seat. 10) Never put the good of any one man or woman or nation above the good of the Tower and the Light. There, the Ten Commandments of Aes Sedai =/.
  22. Actually, Graendal's angreal is pretty weak, according to her. In my view, Nynaeve with her angreal and ter'angreal can take down any of the surviving Forsaken, even the male ones. Then again, there's nothing saying that Ishamael hasn't, actually, found an angreal or sa'angreal in the space between the Path of Daggers and now.
  23. If the Aes Sedai must swear Oaths, why not swear like this: 1) Never do anything that will aid the Shadow in any possible way. 2) Never lie unless in the utmost defense of your life or the life of your Warder or the life of another sister and / or her Warder or the White Tower. 3) Never use the One Power to cause permanent damage to a living being except Shadowspawn, and as a last resort against Darkfriends or when in the utmost defense of your life or the life of your Warder or the life of another sister and / or her Warder or the White Tower. 4) Never use the One Power to construct anything that can be used by other people as a weapon. 5) Never forswear the Oaths sworn on this Oath Rod, and never swear any other oaths. That way, it's much more convenient for Aes Sedai if they have to lie to protect something important, such as Tower secrets, instead of constantly sidestepping the truth. It eliminates the Black Ajah within the Tower, since no full sister can be a Darkfriend. It ensures that the Oaths cannot be purged, and it also allows for the Power to be used as a weapon when defending the Tower itself. Unless swearing two more Oaths means cutting another two hundred years off your life, of course.
  24. Aes Sedai may not be able to write lies due to Pevara's thoughts, but if they were, it would be in Moiraine's interest to mislead Rand into believing they weren't, since she was just about to write him a letter herself which she would very much want him to believe. She would not want him regarding it with suspicion, as he would if he knew every word could be a lie. Not that the letter contained a great deal of useful information anyway, but still... Anyway, a nod proves nothing. Moiraine nodded to Nynaeve when she asked her not to reveal the fact that she can channel, but she later did directly tell Siuan about her. Aes Sedai can lie through nodding.
  25. Faile doesn't deserve the screentime neccessary to have her killed. I'd rather she wasn't mentioned until Book 13: The Chronicles of Fail.
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