Modification: What parts do you dislike in the WOT?

[RAND AL THOR]

Difficult to see 3000 yrs custom but I expect to see Egwene changing many policies in the tower.

[MatrixM]

She's already starting to introduce them with the Kin and Aes Sedai pact.

[Lord Nik]

at first the whole rand having three wives thing was like. "woot go rand" but i like it less and less the more i read the series. To me it just seems one more area rand is spread to thin. i almost feel betrayed for some reason that rand has 3 girls instead of one, his love seems less. If you understand what i mean. the "veins of gold" whenever he looks at them, it like "wow you love 3 girls cant dsecide?" i just dont like it. It doesnt help that i dont like elayne or min but i just dont like the thhree wives thing!

y cant rand just be married to avi and call it quits

[anamul]

*lol* LordNik, I see your point. This is where I lost my sister as a WOT reader. She read until Fires of heaven, and when it became apparent to her that Rand is going to hook up with all three, she threw the book at me, for reccomending the series in the first place, as if it was my fault. I tried to explain to her all the Taveren things, she threatened to throw all the books in the bookself at me. We shared every series between us, Like Harry poter, LOR, David eddings, Tears of Artamon etc. It was sad that I couldn't share any thought on WOT with her any longer.

 

She said..."Wow, you will like that, won't you? Having three wifes?How would you feel if the situation was reversed? If it was three man sharing one woman?"

 

Well, after that what can I say?I still haven't managed to convince her to read any more. And it doesn't help that she dislikes Elayane. We both like Aviendha very much, and she confessed to me that she wanted Rand and Aviendha to be together, instead of sharing him with Min and Elayne.

 

[Daphilip]

Is it only me who has absolutely no problem with the "three wives" factor. I just think it's "Way to go Rand!"

 

If the girls are happy about it then I don't see the problem. It was their choice, not Rands. They all knew that it was all of them or no of them so they chose the only way anyone of them could have him.

 

Besides, it's some theories about they all share the same soul on some way, Ilienas (or whatever her name was), so they are basically the same person, even though I don't personally believe in it.

[Razor]

I t is appropriate for Rand as he is really an Aiel that he would have such a set up with sister wives.

[RAND AL THOR]

Even Aiel have only 2.

 

And, do u remember Nynaeve's reaction in WH? When people start to find out about this, its going to be really fun to read. Who knows, maybe Nynaeve officially realizing that rand intends to have a firm relationship with all 3 may trigger the next breaking of the world! :o

[Razor]

I am looking forward to Tam and Morgaise's reaction.

[CUBAREY]

I am looking forward to Tam and Morgaise's reaction.

 

Tam will only scratch his head, Morgaise will cut-off Rand's head! ;D

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Is it only me who has absolutely no problem with the "three wives" factor. I just think it's "Way to go Rand!"

UNQUOTE

 

I dont have a problem with it easier, other than...poor Rand! Imagine when Elayne has had her twins, and Aviendha has her quadruplets, he'll be scared of getting Min pregnant in case she has octuplets haha

[RAND AL THOR]

I am looking forward to Tam and Morgaise's reaction.

 

Tam will only scratch his head, Morgaise will cut-off Rand's head! ;D

 

Morgase has no right considering her own love life! ;D

[Mysterious]

When has that ever stopped a woman from doing what she wants? ;D

 

Though the general consensus seems to be "Way to go Rand!", I'm personally sorry for him. If you think about it logically, he's screwed.

 

Elayne = Princess now Queen aka Spoilt brat + Aes Sedai + Pregnancy hormones :o

 

Avi = She's probably better at hand-to-hand combat than Rand. Do you really want to sleep with someone who can literally rip you apart limb from limb?  :-\

 

Min = She carries as many knives as Mat and is quite proficient with them. Do I need to say any more?  :-X

 

 

 

Mysterious

[CUBAREY]

Avi = She's probably better at hand-to-hand combat than Rand. Do you really want to sleep with someone who can literally rip you apart limb from limb? 

 

Min = She carries as many knives as Mat and is quite proficient with them. Do I need to say any more? 

 

 

 

Maybe Rand's into knky S&M!

[Mr Ares]

Is it only me who has absolutely no problem with the "three wives" factor. I just think it's "Way to go Rand!"

 

If the girls are happy about it then I don't see the problem. It was their choice, not Rands. They all knew that it was all of them or no of them so they chose the only way anyone of them could have him.

No, your not alone. I don't see why it should be a problem.

 

She said..."Wow, you will like that, won't you? Having three wifes?How would you feel if the situation was reversed? If it was three man sharing one woman?"

 

Well, after that what can I say?

How would you feel if it was one woman sharing three men? Would it make a difference? If all those involved are fine with the arrangement then why should it be a problem? Try asking your sister that. (You can answer the questions as well if you want.)

[anamul]

Mr Ares, thats the problem. Cause, I couldn't, I wouldn't.No matter how close that friend is...my quote is " I will give my life for you,pal, but don't touch the woman I love". *lol*.  ;D .If you do, I am going to kill you".

 

;D ;D :D ;D ;D

 

So I couldn't answer her honestly.

[Mr Ares]

My point was not so much a matter of could you make such a relationship work as it was do you object to such relationships in general? If you yourself have no interest in being part of such a relationship, does that mean you object to the existence of such relationships completely, or does it just mean that your fine with them but don't want to be part of such a relationship? Just because you couldn't stand to share a wife with another two husbands, do you object to the idea that some other people out there are fine with the idea? The same with your sister, just because she couldn't stand to share a husband with a couple of sister wives, does that mean that she is against other women, women who are fine with sharing, doing so? Is the idea of polygamous relationships anathema to you both, or do you just feel that you couldn't make such a relationship work?

[RAND AL THOR]

If you don't like something, how can anyone expect you to approve of others doing precisely what you do not like? If that were so, this world would be peaceful without any wars at all. We object to behaviour that we dislike. That is human nature.

 

Suppose you dislike people walking half-naked on the road. And then you come across people doing just that. Are you just going to ignore that? Will you just say 'Ah to hell with them!' and mind ur own business? If people were like that the world would be dead and gone by now.

 

I dislike polygamous relationships. In WOT I find it amusing. But in reality I would not like it very much.

[Majsju]

Suppose you dislike people walking half-naked on the road. And then you come across people doing just that. Are you just going to ignore that? Will you just say 'Ah to hell with them!' and mind ur own business?

 

If it is not harming anyone, that is exactly how I react. Actually, not even that strongly, I would simply not care. because as long as it is not causing other people any harm, it is none of my business.

[Mr Ares]

If you don't like something, how can anyone expect you to approve of others doing precisely what you do not like? If that were so, this world would be peaceful without any wars at all. We object to behaviour that we dislike. That is human nature.

 

Suppose you dislike people walking half-naked on the road. And then you come across people doing just that. Are you just going to ignore that? Will you just say 'Ah to hell with them!' and mind ur own business? If people were like that the world would be dead and gone by now.

The point was not "if you dislike something" it was "if you are in favour of something in principle (or just have nothing against it), even if you yourself are not interested". If you dislike half-naked people walking down the road, of course you wouldn't like it. Because you would be disliking something you dislike. (Very redundant point, that.) But if you aren't that bothered by people walking down the road half-naked, but prefer to remain fully clothed yourself? Or are you offended by anyone not sharing your preferences?

[RAND AL THOR]

Or are you offended by anyone not sharing your preferences?

 

Ah, I come to see your point now.

 

It is not so. Coming back to my example, if you keep your mouth shut while people walk half-naked around you, and eventually more people become bold enough to do so and others try to keep up with the trend etc and eventually you have almost everyone doing just that-how would you take that?

 

There is no need for law and order if we decide to leave everyone to do as they wish. Suppose I am against murdering but someone else isn't. That someone else kills someone. Then what? I just keep quiet and ignore it because he is not sharing my view?

[Elgee]

Suppose you dislike people walking half-naked on the road. And then you come across people doing just that. Are you just going to ignore that? Will you just say 'Ah to hell with them!' and mind ur own business?

 

If it is not harming anyone, that is exactly how I react. Actually, not even that strongly, I would simply not care. because as long as it is not causing other people any harm, it is none of my business.

 

How on earth do you equate someone having more than one partner, with murder, Rand al Thor ?

 

Avi = She's probably better at hand-to-hand combat than Rand. Do you really want to sleep with someone who can literally rip you apart limb from limb?  :-\

 

Min = She carries as many knives as Mat and is quite proficient with them. Do I need to say any more?  :-X

Mysterious

 

So what? Most men are physically stronger (and usually more proficient in weaponry) than women.  Does that fact make most women quake in their boots? No.

 

Why is it that so many men are afraid of women who happen to be armed and capable of inflicting damage?

 

Mysterious, I'm not aiming this at you - I don't know you from a bar of soap, I don't know if you fall into that category, it was just that post of yours that caught my eye and made me think about the many males on here who seem to have femalephobia. 

 

 

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

That would be because of my background. In India/Sri Lanka you are taught to live with one person for life. Multiple sexual partners are not permitted and I do not see the need for that too. In India, you don't book your divorce before your marriage (which is imminent in the west). The number of single moms in the US is ridiculous! Why can't people just live faithfully with one person for life, like before? Sadly, this is disappearing even in Asia now.

[anamul]

Well, Mr Ares. ofcourse I disapprove of polygamy.

So yeah, you are right, I don't like seeing thing I dislike. But that doesn't necessarily make it go away.And there should be limit to everything.

RAND AL THOR, Women in indian subcontinent is supressed and considered as a subhuman for the most part. Very few people in indian subcontinent respect women.

 

Men and Women in Indida doesn't spend their whole life with same partner because they love each other. In 90% cases, it social coercing,children etc.

A women in India sacrifices a lot in order to keep a relationship going.Most of the Men here love the fact that, they are the boss, they like to order the women around and the women are compelled to obey due to the social structure and inferior concept about women. In India, a Man's or boys. transgression is easily forgiven, but in case of a women, she is labeled as a slut.

 

In thousands of year such conecpt and treatment hasn't changed because of the fact that the Men in India is comfortable with it.In some area of India, it makes them something like a demigod.

 

Despite the divorce rate in west, women is free and can have a choice most of the time.I say it is better to be a single mum than to be abused by a husband who thinks you are his property.Who is sheltered behind the social structure.

 

Education has nothing to do it India. Despite being highly educated, most of the Men and Women here remains a slave to their old custom and tradition.

 

A woman in India thinks it is her duty to please her husband at any cost, even if that means she have to live a subhuman life.

 

The most troubling and outrageous fact here is arranged marriage. In India 80% marriage is still being arranged by parents or guardian. It means you have to marry some one you don't know. Imagin that, imagin the horror of that.

 

During the time of marriage, the to be bride is displayed to the grooms relatives, like some goods in Market.They comments, they criticise, more often then not infront of the girl to be married.Its humiliating.

 

A divorced woman or widow faces difficulties from all side and most often then not they remains unmarried after.Cause they are considered as either unlucky or "Used goods".

 

The women, specially the older women in India is as much as to blame as the Men here.These women actually tries to inflict those ridiculous tradition on the younger ones.

 

All being said and done, the western women is much luckier than of Asian.Its Hell.

 

I hate sexual impurity(infidelity,coercing etc) more than anything in my life.But I also hate disrespect towards women in general.I don't read some fantasy for this reason. Despite being a western writer, their prejudice towards women shows in their writing.

 

Elgee, I like women with knife, the fiercer the better. Thats one of my reason for reading SOT. For Cara and other Mordsith. It adds to personality.

[Mysterious]

Suppose you dislike people walking half-naked on the road. And then you come across people doing just that. Are you just going to ignore that? Will you just say 'Ah to hell with them!' and mind ur own business?

 

If it is not harming anyone, that is exactly how I react. Actually, not even that strongly, I would simply not care. because as long as it is not causing other people any harm, it is none of my business.

 

How on earth do you equate someone having more than one partner, with murder, Rand al Thor ?

 

Avi = She's probably better at hand-to-hand combat than Rand. Do you really want to sleep with someone who can literally rip you apart limb from limb?  :-\

 

Min = She carries as many knives as Mat and is quite proficient with them. Do I need to say any more?  :-X

Mysterious

 

So what? Most men are physically stronger (and usually more proficient in weaponry) than women.  Does that fact make most women quake in their boots? No.

 

Why is it that so many men are afraid of women who happen to be armed and capable of inflicting damage?

 

Mysterious, I'm not aiming this at you - I don't know you from a bar of soap, I don't know if you fall into that category, it was just that post of yours that caught my eye and made me think about the many males on here who seem to have femalephobia. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To answer your question, no I'm not femalephobic.

 

My attitude, as well as with a lot of males in this forum (though I can't be positive), find the women in WOT so far out of our experience with dealing with women in the real world. I live in Australia and I have found that most female Anglo-Australian women are equal in size and strength with Australian men, especially those from immigrant backgrounds from Asia. We Australians are pretty much an egalitarian society so it's not the gender that I disapprove of when I'm talking about Elayne, Avi and Min. I am talking about their personal, cultural and societal attidudes that they have and have developed over the series in WOT.

 

So I'm sticking with my assumption that Rand is screwed.

 

First I'll go with the easiest Avi:

 

1. She's Aiel. While I don't consider them savage barbarians, they are a pretty f*ked up people culturally and socially. They have literallly killed each other over a puddle of muddy water. They are a battle hardened people that are used to war and actively encourage it. Culturally and Socially they do not understand anything other than force. We have also seen in the books some xenophobic attidudes more prominent amongst the Shaido. As an individual I would probably find most Aiel to me personally ok and depending on the situation if I physcially met Avi I may consider her a friend. But I would never forget the fact that the Aiel were made to be a weapon. And weapons they certainly are: Cold, Sharp and Deadly.

 

2. She's an Maiden of the Spear now training to be a Wise One. I actually consider being a Maiden of the Spear as a plus to her as I haven't found them to be all that bad. But if you add that to the fact that she's training to be a Wise One with all the percursors with the prestige and attitude inherent than you can have a problem. Wise Ones are the Aes Sedai of the Aiel. Normal rules do not apply to them. Ji'e'toh doesn't apply to them if they choose it does not apply to them. They are essentially the equivalent of the Catholic Church during the Inquisition. They will do anything to protect their power base as well as protecting the Aiel people. In that order. Can you truly be comfortable with that?

 

3. I have found her personal attitude to be quite delightful and amusing. Although it is quite alien to what I'm used to dealing with, it is still quite fascinating.

 

Overall I'm split with Avi, on the one hand I find her personally appealing but on the other hand I would try to drag Rand bodily away from her. It would ultimately depend on where her ultimate loyalties lie: With Rand and her future children or with the Wise Ones?

 

Elayne: This is quite simple. I would literally drag Rand away from her by the ears if I had to. She represents everything freedom loving democratic people abhor, even if I find her personally appealing especially with her antics being pregnant.

 

1. She's literally a Princess now a Queen. Unlike fairytales reality isn't what it is cracked up to be. No one can ever be her equal. Ever. People who trace lineages and live by them are f*cked up. I don't care what people say and even if you dig up personal or historical exceptions. The Nobility and people who aspire to be Nobility have caused untold misery in this world from the Crusades culminating in World War I. My ancestors died for people like them for a war over ego and after this they put in the seeds of WWII in the aftermath.

 

2. She's an Aes Sedai. As earlier with my example with the Catholic Church, exactly the same. The Aes Sedai as a whole cannot consider a world where they are not on top. Ever. The Aes Sedai hold back humanity from every being more than they are because than they would not be able to control them. Technology inherently is anathema to them. The title of Aes Sedai is a misnomer. They are not servants of the people they are Rulers. Queens Rule, Dictators Rule, Oligarchies Rule, but ordinary Governmnents GOVERN.

 

3. Her personal attitude is ok. She's kind, genorous and giving. But her inherent biases make me wince.

 

You have to ask will she be loyal to Rand or will she be loyal to the White Tower and her class?

 

Min: She's marriageable material. Of the lot she's the best.

 

1. She's a spy but a good spy as she is 100% loyal to Rand. Being a spy isn't necessarily a bad thing just something to be wary of. It could definately come in handy to have that in a spouse.

 

2. She's a knife fighter. I wouldn't consider this a bad thing either but she would certainly garner a lot of respect and wariness from me. Knife fights are absolutely brutal. You have to be viscious.

 

I don't have any other negatives about her. She has a lot of positives though:

 

1. She comes from the country and she's a commoner. Rand's from the country and he's a commoner. She has the same world view.

 

2. She's an outsider because of her abilities. She's literally one of a kind. She can empathise with what Rand is going through being the Dragon Reborn that the other two just cannot.

 

Overall if Rand had to choose between the three I would recommend Min. I also get the distinct feeling that he and Lews Therin like her the most of the lot. Though that may be my bias.

 

 

If Rand had to pick only one of his partners and he picked either of the first two I would say he'd be screwed or he may turn into someone I wouldn't like. The problem is that there are three of them you can't just pick and choose. How is this relationship going to work? He only really knows and understands Min well because of their background and the amount of time spent together. He's got the time but he hasn't got the same level of understanding with Avi and he definately has got neither with Elayne. We haven't seen any interactions of this family unit at all in the series. I'm going to really look forward to how RJ and Sanderson plan on showing us.

 

 

 

Mysterious

 

[Mysterious]

If what I have seen in the movie Water is typical or near anything typical, then Indian women are screwed.

 

 

Mysterious