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Modification: What parts do you dislike in the WOT?


RAND AL THOR

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Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the WOT. But all books have their pros and cons. What do U hate about the WOT? My view:

1) Aes Sedai are too proud and stiff-necked.

2) Faile is a waste of time

3) I dislike Rand having so many injuries: two non-healable wounds and one hand blasted off.

4) I strongly dislike the Perrin-Faile chase throughout the latter books. It was horrid.

5) Extreme intricate description of the surroundings can sometimes be annoying when the plot is moving fast and something exciting is happening.

6) I also dislike Rand's proud attitude towards Moiraine in Book 5.

7) Also, there is too little Rand in the last two books. I would have liked to have seen more of him, especially in KOD.

 

What stuff do YOU dislike about the WOT? I think u would all vote with me for Point 1. Aes Sedai need not be so proud no matter what.

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The thing I dislike the most is that most of the women act like they know everything while in fact they know as little as the men. It's annoying.

 

But if there was one single thing that really pissed me off it is the incident when Mat dragged his way down to Tear to save Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwane and they treat him like dirt. I mean, the guy came all the way to help you out risking his life countless times and what do you do? You spit him in the face.

 

I remember reading that I was totally pissed of and my opinion of the three ladies hasn't really recovered since.

 

I guess it's good that Aviendha tries to put them straight later but it never quite made up for it in my book.

 

Otherwise I pretty much agree with your list.

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Oh yeah, i forgot those parts. Those were REALLY horrible. Even though Elayne and Nynaeve try to make up in a later book , they were totally ungrateful.

 

As for the attitude of the women, i dont get why RJ put that in at all. It was funny at first, but I got sick of it fairly soon. The women seem to regard the men as near-worthless creatures. Very annoying.  >:(

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First, I would say that the thing that frustrated me the most was that by about Crown of Swords, RJ had so many well developed characters that he seemed to have a hard time keeping them together.  It was like daddy day care...easier to manage three or four rowdy kids, but thirty?

 

1) Aes Sedai are too proud and stiff-necked.

This is actually an aspect that I relished.  The know-it-all Aes Sedai watching their hold on the world slip through their ageless fingers.  Great plot device.

 

2) Faile is a waste of time

Wow, I really don't get all the Bashere Bashing (heh heh) on this site.  I really liked Faile and I loved the triangle between her, Berelain, and Perrin.  Sometimes authors create characters more as accessories to their main, more fleshed out ones.  I believe that Faile is more that and I enjoy Berelain messing with her.  I think what gives her a problem is that she suffers from the problem I listed in the first paragraph.  RJ had created so many characters, that he didn't know what to do with them.

 

3) I dislike Rand having so many injuries: two non-healable wounds and one hand blasted off.

I think this is all on purpose.  It is a physical manifestation of the gradual decay this is having on his soul.  The Rand that stands at TG will certainly not be the one who left Two Rivers. 

 

4) I strongly dislike the Perrin-Faile chase throughout the latter books. It was horrid.

(see above)

 

5) Extreme intricate description of the surroundings can sometimes be annoying when the plot is moving fast and something exciting is happening

Yeah...I skipped a paragraph sometimes....but sometimes the description is necessary. 

 

6) I also dislike Rand's proud attitude towards Moiraine in Book 5.

At this point, I wasn't liking Rand all that much...but I think he was a more believable character.  He has been raised all his life to be wary of Aes Sedai, and you have to admit that Moiraine is a bit pushy.  With all this pressure, Rand was doing the best he could.  Besides, I don't think it was RJ's intention for us to completely like Rand at this point.  Is he going crazy or just being an Aiel-hole? 

 

7) Also, there is too little Rand in the last two books. I would have liked to have seen more of him, especially in KOD.

Rand is becoming more of a concept than character.  The bloody Dragon Reborn.  ALso, I think RJ is playing catch up in relation to the whole Too many characters thing. 

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I will never forgive RJ for stretching out on the Perrin-Faile-rescue part. It lasts over 2 books!!!! It was a horrid bore in my opinion.

 

And myndrunner,though u provided sufficient counterarguements and reasons for the parts of the books that i dislike, I still dislike them. True, many are necessary in the series but that doesnt mean I have to like them. The points I mentioned are ones I dont like-regardless of their significance in the story.

 

Keep the comments coming people. ;D

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What really bugs me is that RJ spent so much time describing the surroundings he pays very little attention to descrbing the character's physial description. He spends a sentence or two stating eye colour, hair colour, and height and just leaves it, that drives me NUTS.

 

That and Nynaeve's attitude is really starting to bug me, it seems like she spends all her time in self-denial of the fact that it's not her job to boss everyone around anymore. That and she's WAY too abusive and can't take a joke.

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I do not hate anything about WOT. Excrept having to wait ages for AMOL ;D

 

Other than that, of course there are characters and events I dislike, but I take that as evidence of RJs brilliance that he can write a character so credible that the reader actually can dislike them.

 

And while some things might seem annoying, like the rescue of Faile taking so long to resolve, the start and the end of it are where they need to be plotwise. Just as rand being missing a lot the last two books, how interesting would it be to read about him sitting around doing nothing except recovering? The same reason Mat was out for an entire book when he was just lying in bed healing a broken leg (Though it would have been interesting to read about the pink ribbon-incident *g*)

 

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Guest Dreadlord

QUOTE

1) Aes Sedai are too proud and stiff-necked.

2) Faile is a waste of time

3) I dislike Rand having so many injuries: two non-healable wounds and one hand blasted off.

4) I strongly dislike the Perrin-Faile chase throughout the latter books. It was horrid.

5) Extreme intricate description of the surroundings can sometimes be annoying when the plot is moving fast and something exciting is happening.

6) I also dislike Rand's proud attitude towards Moiraine in Book 5.

7) Also, there is too little Rand in the last two books. I would have liked to have seen more of him, especially in KOD.

UNQUOTE

 

1) While I agree, thats how were meant to see, as everyone in the WoT setting does. that shows good writing.

2) I agree with you with every fibre of my being, I have Faile with a vengence. She does absolutely nithing, except throw one of the most important men in the world off track.

3) I think it is brilliant Rand having so many injuries. This is something you dont see often in fantasies-Rand is in a very bad state. Rand has taken so many beatings, and the only thing that has happened to the Dark One is he has lost some of his highest minions-no damage at all to the Dark One himself. It shows us that Rand is still vulnerable.

4) Indeed, it is horrid. KoD was spoiled by it.

5) Again, while I can see what you mean, it is purely to give a better picture. And you also have to remember that this whole series is 100% PoV based (the only exceptions are th winds at the start of each book and the scene where we see someone find Herid Fels remains) so what we see is exactly what the character sees. I like it.

6) Do you mean her name being at the top of Rands list? If you dont like that then I think you are mental. Imagine if you found out you were meant to save the world, and there was a woman who taught you practically everything you know with regard to your duty. And then she died, because you failed to do something. Her name would be at the top of my list as well.

7) Good point. It annoys me as well that we dont see much of Rand, although RJ did say that the story evolves, in that it tells so many characters story, that there isnt as much room for Rand as there was. But I hate that as well

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Yeah, I agree with most of these.  Especially how Mat was treated, and how the Aes Sedai all tried to take his medallion away, and how they experimented on him with the power.  Also Aram's death... I wanted Perrin to pull some matrix move... but an arrow from somewhere saves him O.o

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As others have said, I always disliked the mistreatment of Mat, but what bothered me more was the demise of Aram. I thought it happened WAAAAAY too quickly (the whole fall into madness thing as well as the fight) and so far I can't really think of a point for his death. Other than that Aram business I actually liked the Faile chase.

 

I also found that a lot of the goings on in the Rebel camp was boring, and Nicola pisses me off... probably because I know people like her  ::)

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      All of the points that have been made are good ones. I do think that ALL of the points that we don't like have made the books believable. Mainly, Rand's injuries. I have read way too many stories where the hero, might get a scratch every once in a while, but it makes Rand human.

    The Aes Sedai being stiff necked would have been terrible if they stayed on their high horse and the world stayed the way they thought it should, but... since it's not, I like that part.

    I probably will be shot for this, but Perrin-Faile merry go round shows that all of the characters can't always go from step one to step two. I give credit to Perrin to see and try to defend Emond's Field. Then, again, you are saving the world and someone steals your wife who you love dearly, I would go after my wife in a heartbeat and damn the rest. It shows great love to me.

    Numbers 5 and 7 and Jambo's Aram are the ones I agree with the most.

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as annoying as the chase got it all paid off in KoD with the awsome battle

 

in my opinion

 

It wasn't THAT awesome.  We had a berjillion page chase end in an anti-climactic battle that only lasted a few pages, and those few were still filled with Perrin mooning.

 

The thing that I hate, and I mean hate, is that the series has taken so long to write that my taste in characters has changed.  When the series began I could somewhat identify with the inmaturity of the characters.  Now many years have passed in the real world; while only a few have passed in Randland. I have matured and I no longer identify with most of the characters, who have not matured.  Sadly, I no longer care if most live of die.  Rand, Mat, and Lan are the only ones I still care for.  They IMHO are the only ones who have grown up.

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I agree with the first one, that women are too bossy, And aes sedai are even worse, and it burns me up when women get there way. Now, i think it's all worth it for the times when the women don't get their way, like on two occassions in KoD: (1) when the Aes Sedai are slapping the Sul'dam, and Mat wwalks in and prettu much manhandles thenm. That was sooooooooooooooooo funny. (2)when Tuon and Selucia tries to put adam on the Aes Sedai, but Mat removes them and proves that Tuon is not above him. Even though I personnally think the Foxhead was put there to kill the Gholam, I think RJ also put it there just to mess with the Aes Sedai's big heads.

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I remember counting chapters, waiting for the moment I would get to read about Rand, and it's not funny when, after reading two chapters on Elayne, you turn the page and behold, you are treated with another chapter of hers, followed by three more on Egg-head, with Faile after that.

 

I mean, Rand is the freakin' Dragon Reborn, the books are supposed to be about him, and even if he is recuperating, we could get to see something about him or his plans, I don't know. And when you get to read about him (halfway through the  book or after), you get one or two chapters, and then it's back to Egg-head.

 

By now it should be obvious Rand is my favourite character. His absence is actually what made me turn to Mat as the next favourite character.

I read somewhere that Randland is supposed to be gender-balanced, but how could that be true?

 

And it so happens that Mat is often on the receiving end of some annoying behaviour (I agree with the ones mentioned here). Particularly when those Sisters were channeling on him, 'studying' his medallion. My frustration and anger at them exceeded his. Or, and this depends on one's interpretation, when Tylin forces him to have sex with her (with a knife to his throat, if you please). Rape or not, (this is not the issue I'm raising, please), it's unacceptable.

 

At the beginning I thought Rand was god-like (and I didn't mind, to be honest, I was still caught up with superheroes), then I quickly realised that R.J.'s characters are nothing like that, they are humans, which renders the whole thing more realistic IMHO.

 

But then he introduced Cadsuane. 

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I really hate it when people hate WoT and pick on Faile.  ;)

 

You totally get me wrong. I specially stated at the beginning of the post that I love the WOT. This thread discusses the negative points in the WOT.

 

Furthermore, I dont see how anyone can like Faile. Her presence in the series has caused more trouble than not. Also, I dont like the way she treats Perrin. He has not encouraged Berelain at all but she flares with jealousy and jumps on him everytime she is mentioned. Not fair. I found the Berelain thing funny initally but Faile's behaviour about it gets annoying.

Faile is a waste of time. If Perrin had remained single, we may have seen and end to Masema by now and Perrin may have accomplished several deeds that need doing on Rand's behalf, rather than chasing after Faile halfway across the world.

 

QUOTE

 

6) Do you mean her name being at the top of Rands list? If you dont like that then I think you are mental. Imagine if you found out you were meant to save the world, and there was a woman who taught you practically everything you know with regard to your duty. And then she died, because you failed to do something. Her name would be at the top of my list as well.

 

 

Not at all. Rand was treating Moiraine almost like a servant throughout most of Book 4 and 5. She has been trying to manipulate him, yes, but for whose benefit? She has dedicated her life to finding him. He wept after she died. But she treated her unfairly before that. I dont know how you can justify that.

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I really hate it when people hate WoT and pick on Faile.  ;)

 

Faile's a big girl, she can take care of herself - just ask her.

 

If we REALLY hated anything in WOT, we wouldn't a) keep re-reading it; and b) be on this site.

 

I do agree on the whole too much description thing, but am so afraid of missing some deeply planted clue that I force myself to go back when I find I've glossed over a passage.

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For some reason people are not understanding the purpose of this thread. Let me make something clear.

 

I was introduced to the WOT in october last year. I finished the first 10 books in 3 months and got the last book in february 2008. I finished that in just 4 days.

 

Since then I have not gone a single day without re=reading at least a page. I have been through some of the books so much that I can simply tell the dialoge on a page by glancing at the first line.

 

You should undestand by now how much i love this book series.

 

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the negative aspects in the books. It is not possible for any author to write a perfect book series where every character and every side-plot satisfies every reader. This post is for people to discuss what parts of the WOT they do not like very much. benr, if you tell me that you loved every word in the book, then you are very obvisouly lying. It is not possible. Despite loving WOT, once I actually put the KOD down after finding yet ANOTHER chapter on Elayne.

 

Note: Please dont keep putting posts stating that this thread has no purpose. If people have trouble understanding the subject please keep that to yourself.

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I stand by my original post. There isn't a thing I dislike about WoT, ask anybody, and Faile is one of my favorite characters. You can think that's impossible if you like, but refrain from calling me a liar when I state my opinion. I wasn't trying to get a rise out of you, I was answering what I hate most about WoT.

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benr, if you tell me that you loved every word in the book, then you are very obvisouly lying. It is not possible. 

 

Note: Please dont keep putting posts stating that this thread has no purpose. If people have trouble understanding the subject please keep that to yourself.

 

hmmm...don't think I said that.  Sorry my post wasn't to your satisfaction.  Hate is such a strong word.

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I hated Egwene during the first few books. She was just so childish! Once she become the Amyrilin I start liking her.

 

Perrin really annoys me with all his slow (boring) thinking and obsession with Faile and the way he dealt with the whole wolf thing.

 

The way the guys are so protective of women and so reluctant to kill em.

 

The way the world seems divided into two extremes - those who intimidate everyone, those who are intimidated by everyone.

 

Also, I'd have quite liked it if at least one of the boys accepted who they were and what was happening to them straight away. Mat denied being taveren, Rand denied being the DR and Perrin denied the wolves. It very nearly had me tearing my hair out.

 

Oh, and the way there's always another more intimidating woman around the corner. First Nynaeve was the most intimidating then Moiraine then Elaida then the Wise Ones then the Sea Folk then Caddy. Where will it end?!

 

 

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I don't hate anything about the books. There are bits (or characters, mainly) that I would perhaps change in certain ways if I wanted a perfect world, but I dont want a perfect world; if every blade of grass was a perfect shade of green I would be very, very cynical about the whole thing.

 

It's the imperfections which make it so endearing. Elayne can be frustrating but underneath she's floundering a bit, she's scared and although she has all these doctrines given to her by her mother and lini, she's barely 20 and is staring at the thrones of two powerful countries. Nynaeve can be annoying but again... she's a pretty timid woman underneath all of that. Faile? She's a spoilt brat but I know plenty of those!

 

True the boys took a while to accept their fates but if someone came to me tomorrow and told me that I could speak to wolves, I was shaping the world around me or I was going to die an horrific, infamous and widely celebrated death in a matter of years I dont think I would accept it immediately either.

 

re' the men being chivalrous towards the women... it can go too far at times but I wish I knew men like that in this world. Its nice to read about 'knights in shining armour' at times.

 

So ... at the risk of being called a liar as so many so far have ... no, i dont hate anything about the books. Even Padan Fain. Mat wouldnt be the character he is without him.

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