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Modification: What parts do you dislike in the WOT?


RAND AL THOR

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I agree.

 

The level of distrust and outright paranoia Jordan portrayed is excessive.  Either he had all of the characters diligently trying to ignore one another, or, when they don't ignore each other, they only talk at each other.

 

Rand's biggest hurdle is to instill the necessary level of trust and cooperation for the Light to be successful.

 

Kinda hard when he's become the poster-boy for paranoid.

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I actually like that the aes sedai are proud and stuck in their ways. The reason for this is, in the begining of the series the Aes sedai seemed so powerful and mysterious. I remember thinking in book 1 -If Rand Mat and Perrin could just meed back up with Moiraine and Lan everything would be ok!- But as you read through they kind of become Predictable and definately a lot weaker. No 3 Aes sedai can toutch rand :P or even Mat for that matter.

 

Like Captain Jack Sparrow said "you can always trust a dishonest person to be dishonest" You can always trust an Aes sedai to be an Aes sedai "with the exception of Moiraine.

 

The end of book 6 i think it was where she -killed herself and Lanfear- The Letter she wrote to Rand gave me the chills :)

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The thing I dislike the most is that most of the women act like they know everything while in fact they know as little as the men. It's annoying.

 

But if there was one single thing that really pissed me off it is the incident when Mat dragged his way down to Tear to save Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwane and they treat him like dirt. I mean, the guy came all the way to help you out risking his life countless times and what do you do? You spit him in the face.

 

I remember reading that I was totally pissed of and my opinion of the three ladies hasn't really recovered since.

 

I guess it's good that Aviendha tries to put them straight later but it never quite made up for it in my book.

 

Otherwise I pretty much agree with your list.

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Modification: What parts do you dislike in the WOT?

« on: April 21, 2008, 08:27:59 AM »

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Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the WOT. But all books have their pros and cons. What do U hate about the WOT? My view:

1) Aes Sedai are too proud and stiff-necked.

2) Faile is a waste of time

3) I dislike Rand having so many injuries: two non-healable wounds and one hand blasted off.

4) I strongly dislike the Perrin-Faile chase throughout the latter books. It was horrid.

5) Extreme intricate description of the surroundings can sometimes be annoying when the plot is moving fast and something exciting is happening.

6) I also dislike Rand's proud attitude towards Moiraine in Book 5.

7) Also, there is too little Rand in the last two books. I would have liked to have seen more of him, especially in KOD.

 

Finally some people i agree with. I cant stand the girls in that book. ESPECIALLY ELAYNE. I actually hate her she sucks so much. snobby runt grrrr. And that chase! perrin> ughh im so sad i lost faile... whine whine whine, it takes two books to solve this problem that i thought was going to be done in half of one. And there isnt enough of mat. To much elayne. WAY TOO MUCH PERRIN SAVING FAILE. he should have left her lol. i used to have trouble deciding decding who was cooler rand or perrin. But it is onviously rand now.. (below Mat .. of course) but that attitude of nyneaves puts me over the edge. same with elayne where there like men make soo much trouble blah blha blha..,

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but the worst was elayne (again!)

when she was like oh rand is so foolish. all he does is make trouble for me, he sucks. I was soo angry when rand married her. With Avi and Min i was like go go rand but i waas like ewwww elayne?!?!?! stay away she sucks....

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i feel bad about putting down Wot though (not elayne she still sucks) so something good about it too,

i love mat, everything about him is AWESOME! he is witty funny. Awesome.. eeverything about him is great. I love the irony that always hits him in the eyes ie (if you havent finished the series please avert your eyes) when he hates ladies (such as elayne.. haha mat doesnt like her) and alwyas likes the tavern sort, and he ends up marrying the daughter of the nine moons, and becomes the emperor himself! HA oh mat we all love you and if there is anyone who doesnt like you its cause there on crack :P

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There wasn't much that I actually disliked about the series.  However, the plot thread with Morgase after she flees Caemlyn was boring to me.  I usually breeze through those chapters fairly quickly.  The Faile Rescue didn't bother me, although I would agree that it seemed drawn out.  Call me crazy, but I actually like Faile.  In a lot of ways (except for the jealousy), she reminds me of my wife, who I have long suspected of being Saldaean.  Faile and Nynaeve both make me laugh.

Also, and I realize that a lot of you won't agree, but I was never a fan of Min.  I'm not even sure what it is that I don't like about her.  That character just didn't appeal to me.  Sorry Minfans.

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wow Brigadier- I hope your wife is on the other side of the planet from me (no offence meant). Like Faile?? And if the jealousy isnt there then the comparison instantly weakens because Faile is 99.999% jealousy.

 

And I'm not a Minfan so I heartily agree that Min is not a pleasant character when she is with Rand. She was great early in the series but I don't like her attitude towards Rand as in "I dont't need you to protect me."

 

I love Aviendha though. When I finally understood why she hated Rand so much in book 4, I was laughing my head off.

 

Elayne....hmm...hmm. I can't make up my mind there. She was great in the early books. But her personality definitely went down in Book 11. I especially dislike her blaming her pregnancy on Rand which is 101% her fault. But I liked her earlier in the series.

 

Perrin;s attitude about Faile sometimes really sucks. Faile must be safe. Faile must not come to harm. Faile must be free. Let the whole world burn to ash but my Faile must be safe.AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! If Rand though like that then the world would be in utter ruins. Sure, you must love your wife but Perrin neglected all else during the kidnapping which drove me mad.

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The level of distrust and outright paranoia Jordan portrayed is excessive.  Either he had all of the characters diligently trying to ignore one another, or, when they don't ignore each other, they only talk at each other.

 

Exactly. One other example is when Egwene talks to Aviendha in T'A'R. Arent they supposed to be best friends? And they keep eyeing eachother suspiciously, and keeping things back. I get the whole "Aviendha is Aiel and wants to save the aiel, and Egwene is Aes Sedai" thing, but really honestly! Whatever happened to just say things straight out? They are at war after all.. grr, its jsut really annoying. lol

 

and way to not give offence Mr Al Thor  ;) Faile is 16 or something, of course she's not acting like she's 30.

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and way to not give offence Mr Al Thor  ;) Faile is 16 or something, of course she's not acting like she's 30.

 

Yes but there are plenty of young characters in WOT who are not as annoying as her. I don't think her age is an excuse for her behaviour. She behaves more like she is 4 yrs old. ;D :o

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I love Aviendha though. When I finally understood why she hated Rand so much in book 4, I was laughing my head off

True that was a laugh and a half :D

and i have to agree with rand (on alot of points) the whole, faile being so silly ect. The perrin saying burn the world to ash for faile! that was very annoying. And the faile is 16 thing, even if she was older there is no garentee that she would be anymore wiser. Unfortunatly age and wisdom dont always walk hand in hand

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Not sure why most folks dislike Min, but she always seemed to be one of the better female characters in the book. Granted she was much better in the early goings but I enjoy her later on still. She doesn't whine and she doesn't try to bully Rand into doing as she wants. She's probably one of the only characters who genuinely seems to want nothing more than to be around Rand (since she loves him) and to do whatever is necessary of her to help him live and succeed. The only mistake was in taking her to the meeting with "Tuon", but that can be forgiven in light of the fact that she's been present at every major meeting of Rand's before to give her viewing aid. And as far as someone's comment concerning her being annoying for not wanting Rand protecting her, can you honestly blame a person who has been without the protection of anyone her whole life and who, though is no maiden or channeler, can wield a knife pretty well (she did put a blade in that fade's chest in KoD and one in Semi's shoulder). I don't know, just dig the fact that she's one of the more normal characters...to each his own.

 

As for Perrin, although I can understand his way of thinking (annoying trait of mine to be able to see from other's perspectives and understand why they might take the stances they do), he does frustrate me quite a bit because he doesn't act as we'd all like him to. However, I DO like the fact that for all his ta'veren-ness, wolf man attributes, and sudden skill as an "amazing" fighter he still is touchable. By that I mean he takes more than his fare share of knicks in a dust-up and Mat does too for that matter despite his skill superiority....makes em more human and believable

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Guest Dreadlord

Another thing I dislike is the fact that Rand doesnt know the Forsaken are being reincarnated.

 

Im pretty sure he will find out in AMoL though, but I think there are many things that I hope for in the next book that will not happen. Rands link to Moridin could be used to create a massive build up to their encounter, yet it hasnt. There is speculation as to whether or not some of Moridins thoughts float across the link, and I certainly hope that is the case, but I want mroe out of that link. Communication should be possible, Moridin should start taunting Rand telepathically, Lews Therin recognizes Moridin as Ishamael, Rand craps his pants, Moridin tells Rand the Forsaken will keep being reborn until they take him...

 

Also, it blags me that while Moridin has ordered Mat and Perrin killed, that order should have been given waaaaaaaaaaaay earlier. In book 1 the Myrdraal that "kills" Thom said "cut one leg and the tripod falls" or words to that degree. If that order had been given earlier, Perrins storyline might have actually been worth reading beyond his encounters with Slayer.

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Another thing I dislike is the fact that Rand doesnt know the Forsaken are being reincarnated.

Is that something you dont like about the series or is it more of a "Nooo rand i need to tell you something but i cant and i know it and it irks meeeee!!!!!"

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Another thing I dislike is the fact that Rand doesnt know the Forsaken are being reincarnated.

Is that something you dont like about the series or is it more of a "Nooo rand i need to tell you something but i cant and i know it and it irks meeeee!!!!!"

 

I feel that way at times as well. The Light knows too little about the Dark while the Dark has almost all the secrets of the Light. Rand is in a weak position since he doesn't know that the Forsaken are being reincarnated. But, hey, that is only real. I'm a big fan of books being REALISTIC and that is only natural.

 

When the cleansing occured, all the female channelers assumed it was the forsaken. I was all but tearing my hair out because Rand wasn't getting the praise he ought to be getting! But that is only realistic. If such a huge amount of saidar is wielded, it only makes sense that it must be the Forsaken.

 

Hence, while those two aspects are a little annoying, they are realistic and add depth to the story. I would not complain about those though.

 

One more thing regarding Min. If her lover orders Cadsuane not to threaten her, surely she should be happy? I agree that the loves Rand and wants to be with him but why does she look down on him so? (That is an unfortunate trait in almost all females in WOT). I am not yet married and can only pray that the women represented in WOT are nothing like real life. The Light have mercy on me!

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I am not yet married and can only pray that the women represented in WOT are nothing like real life. The Light have mercy on me!
 

     

    The only thing I really HATE about this book is how fake RJ's women are. He has no clue how a normal woman thinks and acts! I thought his wife edited these books? If so how did she let this hit the public? No self respecting women would let theses ridiculous women represent herb gender!                                                                                               

   

    Most women don’t hate all men, His women however, with no exceptions are a bunch of self serving misadrests. Most women (if they are not sitting in a room with padded walls in a straight jacket) don’t hate all men, they don’t even think they are all morons. Most women are not manipulative and don’t always have to have their way. They don’t all think they are gods only gift to humanity and they are not all so patronizing.   When they are wrong they will admit it, and if they don’t it has nothing to do with their gender, but  rather a personality type shared by some men. In addition when most women are saved they thank their saviors profusely, and if they don’t do so right away ,and instead reprimand their savior for risking himself, it’s out of nerves and they will do so later (not grudgingly). The list is endless, but I’m sure you get the point. 

     

      Why do you think everyone hates the females of the book more then the males?  Its because they are fake and unrealistic, I’m sure ½ of the men who hate all the women in the book are not all misogynists. In fact I’m sure of that. I’m sure you will all agree that most women you meet don’t act like the crazy ungrateful ones RJ writes about.

               

                        The light help any man who actualy thinks women act like this!!!!

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I am not yet married and can only pray that the women represented in WOT are nothing like real life. The Light have mercy on me!
 

     

    The only thing I really HATE about this book is how fake RJ's women are. He has no clue how a normal woman thinks and acts! I thought his wife edited these books? If so how did she let this hit the public? No self respecting women would let theses ridiculous women represent herb gender!                                                                                             

   

    Most women don’t hate all men, His women however, with no exceptions are a bunch of self serving misadrests. Most women (if they are not sitting in a room with padded walls in a straight jacket) don’t hate all men, they don’t even think they are all morons. Most women are not manipulative and don’t always have to have their way. They don’t all think they are gods only gift to humanity and they are not all so patronizing.  When they are wrong they will admit it, and if they don’t it has nothing to do with their gender, but  rather a personality type shared by some men. In addition when most women are saved they thank their saviors profusely, and if they don’t do so right away ,and instead reprimand their savior for risking himself, it’s out of nerves and they will do so later (not grudgingly). The list is endless, but I’m sure you get the point. 

     

      Why do you think everyone hates the females of the book more then the males?  Its because they are fake and unrealistic, I’m sure ½ of the men who hate all the women in the book are not all misogynists. In fact I’m sure of that. I’m sure you will all agree that most women you meet don’t act like the crazy ungrateful ones RJ writes about.

               

                        The light help any man who actualy thinks women act like this!!!!

 

 

They way RJ potrayed women in WOT is actually intentional. The women in Randland has an different history than the women in our world, thats why they behave differently. In Randland, the women vs man has always been an even battle, instead for in our world where women have been treated as something lesser than men until quite recently. Because of that it's quite understandable why Randland-women is different than ours...

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    O.k. maybe I missed something. Your saying  the women in the book act like that because they grew up on different beliefs??!? That makes no sense! What does an even battlefield have to do with anything? I would say in present day USA women have an even battle field, so how is it different? Present day women are not overbearing ungrateful wretches hated by all!

Maybe I’m just not understanding something, but realistically just because the two genders are equal dose not mean the females should act like witches with a capital B! That is completely illogical, if anything they should act more like themselves. (Dumb blond jokes not appreciated right now). The woman as opposed to acting like they are on equal footing with the men they are acting like they are trying to over compensate for something. If they were on equal footing they would not have to put on an act.

 

    Daphilip your Statement is completely illogical because it is biased on the assumption that the actions of the Randland females are intrinsic, how else could they act so silly on equal terms.  That is frankly insulting, because the attributes any self respecting woman would want to be known by is definitely not her imperious pettiness!

 

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    O.k. maybe I missed something. Your saying  the women in the book act like that because they grew up on different beliefs??!? That makes no sense! What does an even battlefield have to do with anything? I would say in present day USA women have an even battle field, so how is it different? Present day women are not overbearing ungrateful wretches hated by all!

Maybe I’m just not understanding something, but realistically just because the two genders are equal dose not mean the females should act like witches with a capital B! That is completely illogical, if anything they should act more like themselves. (Dumb blond jokes not appreciated right now). The woman as opposed to acting like they are on equal footing with the men they are acting like they are trying to over compensate for something. If they were on equal footing they would not have to put on an act.

 

    Daphilip your Statement is completely illogical because it is biased on the assumption that the actions of the Randland females are intrinsic, how else could they act so silly on equal terms.  That is frankly insulting, because the attributes any self respecting woman would want to be known by is definitely not her imperious pettiness!

 

 

I was only quoting RJ... He has been asked questions about his women in Randland before, and the answer to all his questions is always that the women grew up under other circumstances and with another history than our women did and thats why they act more according the circumstances.

 

If you look back in time some, you'll realize that men thought about women in our world in exactly the same way women thinks about men in Randland. RJ has just switched places on the genders.

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Ebony Ash, though I don't particularly enjoy the portrayal of women in WOT, I think perhaps the point Daphilip might have been getting at is that its not just that the women have been raised differently, but that the majority of those we see are queens, princesses, Aes Sedai, and wise women who because of their lofty positiions and the conceit that they derive from it (no different than the men who hold such positions actually) they don't feel like they should show proper thanks to any men or treat them on equal footing because for thousands of years these women (hell, even innkeepers and wisdoms and women's councils) have been in positions of power and perhaps therefore look down their noses at men, not to mention probably viewing any such service on mankind's part as their due. As far as they're all concerned the only thing men have done in the last 3,000 years is break the world and fight war after war. Not all the women are like this, just like not all the men in the book are like this, but unlike the men we don't really see very many "ordinary" women. But to give one prime example to perhaps back Daphilip's "different societies" theory, take one look at Far Madding and perhaps even Altara...NO where in our world is there a country so thoroughly dominated by women where men toe the line as delicately as the men in those lands do and are so completely at the mercy of whatever whim takes a woman.

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Guest Dreadlord

I am of similar opinion about most of the women in Wheel of Time, the way they act like they know everything and are mostly fake. Although, Nynaeve is the only one I dont mind being that way; she isnt fake, she was the Wisdom at Emonds Field and it is part of her nature to think she is always right, she has a good reason to be like that. Add that to her being really REALLY stubborn and the anger and I think she is funny without being too comical. I would say she is in my top three women in WOT. Second is Aviendha. We get to know her at a very good time in the series, she shows us most of what we know about the Aiel, and I dont mind her parts at all. First though, without a shadow of a doubt and by a very long way, is Moiraine. One of my favourite overall. She has had more influence on Rand than almost anyone else in the books, I think. At first she was the mysterious Aes Sedai, then she turned into the only Aes Sedai who Rand really could trust. I remember when she died Rands world came crashing down with her, a great part of the story, and a brilliant plot waiting for her in AMoL as well.

 

Egwene is so FAKE it annoys me. She shouldnt have been made Amyrlin in my oppinion, that seemed to pop out of nowhere I think (not that there wasnt forshadowing I mean she just didnt seem good enough ever IMO). Min is only good for her viewings, I think RJ only put her there to build up some suspense for events to come. See my signature for what I think of Faile.

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See my signature for what I think of Faile.

 

Awesome sig. I wish I had it! ;)

 

Egwene is so FAKE it annoys me. She shouldnt have been made Amyrlin in my oppinion, that seemed to pop out of nowhere I think (not that there wasnt forshadowing I mean she just didnt seem good enough ever IMO).

 

The appointing of Siuan as Amyrlin was in my opinion the second most shocking event in the books (the first was the deposing of Siuan which all but wrenched by heart out). I was so surprised, I mean, why her? I still don't get a reasonable answer. Despite all the excuses, it only makes sense to appoint a full sister as Amyrlin. Anyway, I liked her afterwards. The way she deals with the Hall and tricks them into her lap was really nice. I also enjoyed reading her chapters in KoD. I was hoping that she would become 'official' Amyrlin in KoD and I faced a little disappointment there. I REALLY look forward to Egwene's chapters in AMOL. I agree that her abrupt change in personality is a bit unrealistic, but I really like her.

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Not sure why most folks dislike Min, but she always seemed to be one of the better female characters in the book.

 

Yeah, most of the women are incredibly annoying. Nyneave is alright at the beginning, but then she becaomes as annoying as the others. Moraine is alright in book 5 but then she dies. Egwene and Elayne are only okay when they're playing politics.

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Guest Dreadlord

QUOTE

Another thing I dislike is the fact that Rand doesnt know the Forsaken are being reincarnated.

[/b]

Is that something you dont like about the series or is it more of a "Nooo rand i need to tell you something but i cant and i know it and it irks meeeee!!!!!"

UNQUOTE

 

Its more like... all the Forsaken recognise Rand as Lews Therin, or seem to. On top of that, the Heroes of the Horns do as well and we know that the Heroes can recognise Rands soul as an incarnation of Lews Therin. Yet Lews Therin doesnt seem to get any of that. He cant tell Dashiva/Osangar is Aginor, and I think he should have been able to tell. The Light dont know enough about the Dark, as someone was saying earlier. I really REALLY hope Rand learns who Moridin is

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I don't think the forsaken can recognise Rand as Lews Therin like that... If they could, Ishamael would have known who the dragon reborn was from the beginning. But he didn't. At first he wasn't sure who of Rand, Mat and Perrin that was the Dragon Reborn and I would want to say that Lews Therin has the same problem

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Guest Dreadlord

Yea I suppose that part of my point wasnt very strong but I still wish Rand knew the Forsaken were being reincarnated. That being said though, he has his attention on other things now anyway and the Forsaken-apart from Demandred-have made enough appearances, I suppose it would be boring if it carried on being about them

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I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but I noticed on my complete re-read of the series recently that RJ has a tendency of repeating things we already know over and over again in each book.  I suppose those passages were there as reminders to his readers since the books took so long to come out but in reading the books back to back it is annoying.

 

Otherwise...there is nothing about the story I dislike.  There are characters that I hate or am annoyed by..but I'm supposed to feel that way.  That is how the story is written.  A story that does not invoke emotion is not worth reading. 

 

BTW...people who hate the whole "Faile chase" deal...don't seem to understand that that part really has nothing to do with rescuing Faile but introducing us to the type of men Masema and Perrin are.  We now have a better understanding of Masema...and we also know that Perrin is capable of selling his soul for Faile.  He has stated this himself.  I think this sets up Perrin's role rather interestingly for the final battle.  Does the DO put Faile in a precarious position in which Perrin is forced to betray Rand?  I can see it happening.  Without the whole desperate chase sequence none of us would believe it would be possible for Perrin to betray Rand.

 

Peace

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