S3E8 - He Who Comes With The Dawn

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

When Nyneave was in Egypt land, let my people go😉

[Sabio]

  On 4/18/2025 at 5:26 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

Yes, everything about this was lame. Sammael replacing Asmodean, Lame!  Moiraine shielding Sammael, Lame! Sammael not actually replacing Asmodean, Lame! At the very least they could have had him say, You? Noooo! When Mogedian showed up 🤷

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Moiriaine could easily shield him ,don't forget she had that little toy.  Sammael can't overpower that.

[Ralph]

  On 4/18/2025 at 2:42 AM, Mailman said:

 

Elaidia accuses Siuan of being a DF is this a violation of the 3 oaths does she truly believe this. What was the purpose of the Elaidia being healed by Siuan scene with a grey man a couple of episodes ago now.

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She didn't say that. She said you have been accused... 

 

  On 4/18/2025 at 2:42 AM, Mailman said:

 

 

 

Did we ever get an in show reveal that Thom had told Elayne about his history?

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No, we get the tease when she asks who he is and he doesn't answer

  On 4/18/2025 at 2:42 AM, Mailman said:

 

 

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[Mailman]

  On 4/18/2025 at 6:15 AM, Sabio said:

Moiriaine could easily shield him ,don't forget she had that little toy.  Sammael can't overpower that.

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Lanfear can though.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/18/2025 at 10:35 AM, Mailman said:

Lanfear can though.

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Sammael was also most likely knocked out when he was shielded. It is easier to maintain a shield than apply one. Now you could argue that Sammy would have had access to the True Power, but the show hasn't made clear who does have access, it was not always available to all the Chosen at all times. 

Bottom line is it is believable that Moiraine,  using the Sarkanen could successfully weave and tie off a shield strong enough to bind Sammael while he was unconscious  and that weave would continue to hold once he awakened. 

[Mailman]

  On 4/18/2025 at 3:11 AM, SinisterDeath said:

The dragon is one with the land.

 

The strange weather in the books, is correlated to Rand's wound as much as it is to the DO's touch increasing as its seals weaken.

 

Rand's corruption from the wound, and the taint from Saidin allows the DO a direct connection to the Land, which allows the DO to better manipulate the weather, and further affect things like weather and rot in the land effects in chaotic ways.

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I'm not sure about this. It certainly has no effect on the never ending winter at the start of the series as he did not have the wound.

 

I also don't remember anything linking the wound to the long summer either. The only thing pertinent I can think of is a conversation between some of the forsaken in regards to the effort the dark one expended to freeze the seasons in place and that he would be displeased if it was undone (convo was in relation to ter'angreal and the fact that sea folk had greater weather abilities than AOL)

[Ithillian Turambar]

Landmark did mention to Rand that she was sorry he had such a terrible teacher but he'd have to make do.

 

Which implied she might have been in on it, before Rand rejected her.

[Mailman]

  On 4/18/2025 at 10:41 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Sammael was also most likely knocked out when he was shielded. It is easier to maintain a shield than apply one. Now you could argue that Sammy would have had access to the True Power, but the show hasn't made clear who does have access, it was not always available to all the Chosen at all times. 

Bottom line is it is believable that Moiraine,  using the Sarkanen could successfully weave and tie off a shield strong enough to bind Sammael while he was unconscious  and that weave would continue to hold once he awakened. 

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We still have no idea how she learned to tie off the shield.

[Mailman]

  On 4/18/2025 at 10:44 AM, Ithillian Turambar said:

Landmark did mention to Rand that she was sorry he had such a terrible teacher but he'd have to make do.

 

Which implied she might have been in on it, before Rand rejected her.

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Lol i am assuming that is an autocorrect.

 

If it had been Landmark taking Sammael away from Rand would have been the first thing i did after he rejected me.

Edited April 18 by Mailman

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/18/2025 at 10:44 AM, Mailman said:

We still have no idea how she learned to tie off the shield.

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She practiced using her corset? She thought about how it would work after having it happen to her? People learn stuff all the time. We don't have to be told every time they pick up something new. How did Rand learn to channel that rainstorm? We aren't told but he did it. Is it unbelievable because we weren't told? In the books characters discover and rediscover things all the time, so the show is just showing that.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Wouldn't it be funny if it was Rand that set off the long hot weather by disrupting the natural weather patterns by making it rain in the desert.

 

Also yes. Total autocorrect error. At least we now know the 8th confirmed Forsaken is Landmark lol

[Mailman]

  On 4/18/2025 at 10:53 AM, Turin Turambar said:

She practiced using her corset? She thought about how it would work after having it happen to her? People learn stuff all the time. We don't have to be told every time they pick up something new. How did Rand learn to channel that rainstorm? We aren't told but he did it. Is it unbelievable because we weren't told? In the books characters discover and rediscover things all the time, so the show is just showing that.

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Maybe? Although having never seen it that's not much of a starting point.

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

This show has had its moments but after this episode I’m officially pulling for no green light on season 4. The sooner this mess is shit canned the sooner we might get a decent reboot. Sure it will likely be 5-10 years down the road but that beats the 20-25 it will be if the show is completed. Furthermore, if this show is completed and thereby is considered a success and becomes definitive it will make a reboot less likely. It’s not that I haven’t enjoyed parts of it, but it’s best if this show is cut down early and forgotten. 

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/18/2025 at 2:48 AM, Sabio said:

The Finn looked way too much like it was from Dr Seuss to me, very cartoony.

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For a second I thought Mat had stepped through a portal to the musical, Cats. I will say that the Eelfin sequence was better than the Cats movie that came out a few years back🤷

[Guire]

  On 4/18/2025 at 11:57 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

This show has had its moments but after this episode I’m officially pulling for no green light on season 4. The sooner this mess is shit canned the sooner we might get a decent reboot. Sure it will likely be 5-10 years down the road but that beats the 20-25 it will be if the show is completed. Furthermore, if this show is completed and thereby is considered a success and becomes definitive it will make a reboot less likely. It’s not that I haven’t enjoyed parts of it, but it’s best if this show is cut down early and forgotten. 

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I am a bit in the same boat.  I feel for the fans genuinely enjoying show.  This was just the perfectly wrong adaptation for me.  A few years ago I would have thought nice for them and moved on.  Now that activism has gotten into the mix I figure I might as well advocate for myself also.  I want my epic military fantasy with giant wolves running the dream.  Massive prophesy dumps and Borderlanders scary as shit.  The main thing keeping me engaged has been Actors' performances.  Lanfear, Mog,  and some of the side characters have really been fun.  This is just not a turning I care about.  Ready for Elayne to Balefire this adaptation. 

[Elder_Haman]

Unfortunately for those of you hoping for the end, I think it is more likely than not that we will get another season. 

[Guire]

  On 4/18/2025 at 12:30 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Unfortunately for those of you hoping for the end, I think it is more likely than not that we will get another season. 

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I would assume it will get a few more.  RoP is horrible beyond saving.  I can't imagine it keeps going and a decent show like WoT is canned.  That Salke firing may mean lots of changes in programming though.  Hopefully the announcement happens soon.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/18/2025 at 10:53 AM, Turin Turambar said:

She practiced using her corset? She thought about how it would work after having it happen to her? People learn stuff all the time. We don't have to be told every time they pick up something new. How did Rand learn to channel that rainstorm? We aren't told but he did it. Is it unbelievable because we weren't told? In the books characters discover and rediscover things all the time, so the show is just showing that.

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Then explain it that way!  A single line of dialogue clears that up.  “Look what I’ve discovered/Ive been practicing/I realized what was done to me could be done to others.”  Or if Lanfear did it, “That’s a neat trick Lanfear used.”  Seriously.  One line.   But the writers care less about telling the story coherently than setting up scenes they want to show whether or not they fit.

 

I really don’t have a problem with the fact that he was shielded and tied off, just that it doesn’t work against other examples we’ve seen in the show without even a tiny bit of explanation.

 

I do think it was dumb that they had a captured Forsaken and just left him alone.  Shielded or not, you keep an eye on him and certainly bring him with when you travel…

 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/18/2025 at 11:57 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

This show has had its moments but after this episode I’m officially pulling for no green light on season 4. The sooner this mess is shit canned the sooner we might get a decent reboot. Sure it will likely be 5-10 years down the road but that beats the 20-25 it will be if the show is completed. Furthermore, if this show is completed and thereby is considered a success and becomes definitive it will make a reboot less likely. It’s not that I haven’t enjoyed parts of it, but it’s best if this show is cut down early and forgotten. 

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I agree that the sooner this is canned and forgotten the better, but I’m the pessimist that assumes this was the one shot this novel got.  There are few examples that come to mind of an adaptation failing but then a second reviving the series.  Dune, maybe.  And then there’s the whole inexplicably weird Harry Potter thing going on, but I guess only time may or may not tell.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/18/2025 at 4:12 AM, DreadLord31 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Alviarian is a DF - otherwise - you can’t be killing ppl with the power unless you are in danger or convinced they really are a DF 

#6 man, again it looked to me like Avi was channeling flaming swords (people will say “no they’re spears - I really don’t think so!) 

 

 

 

 

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I think I may have been the original “Avi channeling” swords complainer and I will go to the grave saying she wielded them like swords and did things you cannot do with spears…but they very clearly looked like short spears to me this episode.  There are clear shafts behind her hands.  Part of the issue is that the spear heads are long, javelin heads rather than spade points.  It helps that she didn’t actually use them this episode to dispel the illusion.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Yup, the Aiel definitely Rules Lawyered the whole, this may have a blade that looks a lot like a sword but it is definitely not a sword cos it has a long wooden handle.

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/18/2025 at 4:12 AM, DreadLord31 said:

#1 being the insta-death of a darkfriend breaking their oath (that not a thing & a metaphysical challenge as has been noted) 

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The closest example we have of this in the books, is when a member of the Black Ajah breaks their oaths.

  Quote

I shall obey all commands given by those placed above me in service to the Great Lord;
I shall prepare for the day of the Great Lord's return;
I shall hold close the secrets of the Black Ajah, unto the hour of my death.

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But that is bound by the oath rod, and attempting to break said oath, via the oath rod causes physical pain... as we saw described in New Spring.

 

Book wise, I don't believe anything except other Darkfriends cause them to die if they break their oaths.

 

They also have the whole Circle of 13 Black Ajah sisters, and 13 Myrddraal to force convert people to Darkfriends. (This happened to Grendel.)

 

They do be writing themselves into a corner if all you have to do is somehow trick a darkfriend into breaking their oath. lol

 

  On 4/18/2025 at 4:12 AM, DreadLord31 said:

h) Matt’s got new memory problems? 

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So, I believe the fox told Mat something like "You hear voices, we can fix that" and Mat's like "Yes Just fix me!" they said "Done". Later they said "You didn't set a price, and a price must be paid".

 

So what I believe happened is that they "fixed" the uncontrolled voices/memories in his head.

And instead, what they did is they erased huge gaps of his own memories, and filled them with memories of long dead generals.

 

This opens up the possibility of the 2nd doorway happening for him to get his "answers" from the other Finn... assuming those give him Answers like in the books, and don't also grant "wishes" like this one did.

 

The big question is... did they just place 3 doorways into the damn show? Since we've seen one in the white tower? Albeit that one looks a lot like the one in the Panarch's Palace? (And I believe the subtitles even mentioned both the Aelfin and the Eelfin in this episode)

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/18/2025 at 10:43 AM, Mailman said:

I'm not sure about this. It certainly has no effect on the never ending winter at the start of the series as he did not have the wound.

 

I also don't remember anything linking the wound to the long summer either. The only thing pertinent I can think of is a conversation between some of the forsaken in regards to the effort the dark one expended to freeze the seasons in place and that he would be displeased if it was undone (convo was in relation to ter'angreal and the fact that sea folk had greater weather abilities than AOL)

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It's connected in the sense that the DO can manipulate the world as the seals weaken, but after Rand is Wounded, manipulating the land becomes a whole lot easier, and we start to see a lot more bubbles of evil start popping up now that the DO's power is both growing from more seals getting broken, and it's ability to directly affect the land is easier since it's got that direct conduit.

 

Let me put it this way.

Rand's wound was described as "hot to the touch", and the lands sweltered.

 

What happened to the weather, after Rand became Zen?

 

 

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/18/2025 at 12:54 PM, Mirefox said:

Then explain it that way!  A single line of dialogue clears that up.  “Look what I’ve discovered/Ive been practicing/I realized what was done to me could be done to others.”  Or if Lanfear did it, “That’s a neat trick Lanfear used.”  Seriously.  One line.   But the writers care less about telling the story coherently than setting up scenes they want to show whether or not they fit.

 

I really don’t have a problem with the fact that he was shielded and tied off, just that it doesn’t work against other examples we’ve seen in the show without even a tiny bit of explanation.

 

I do think it was dumb that they had a captured Forsaken and just left him alone.  Shielded or not, you keep an eye on him and certainly bring him with when you travel…

 

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She literally said tying a weave is a neat trick. The tone and delivery indicated she figured it out. There isn't enough time to spell everything out. 

Fair  enough about leaving him but there are logistics involved in moving him and explaining why he is prisoner and not dead. Maybe they weren't ready to explain and devote resources to guards believing he was secure.  OR just a dumb move to allow Moggy to play. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/18/2025 at 1:46 PM, Turin Turambar said:

She literally said tying a weave is a neat trick. The tone and delivery indicated she figured it out. There isn't enough time to spell everything out. 

Fair  enough about leaving him but there are logistics involved in moving him and explaining why he is prisoner and not dead. Maybe they weren't ready to explain and devote resources to guards believing he was secure.  OR just a dumb move to allow Moggy to play. 

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“That’s a neat trick Lanfear showed me.”  There.  That takes a fraction of a second more and clears up inconsistencies.  It isn’t a matter of time, it is a matter of care.  This show simultaneously spends way too much time on exposition dumps and also fails to keep information consistent in the simplest of ways.