S3E7 - Goldeneyes

[SinisterDeath]

Season 3 - Episode 7: Goldeneyes
Director: Ciaran Donnelly

Writers: Dave Hill

Runtime: TBA

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Episode Description: TBA

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Let's keep DM Tidy, and try to keep all discussions pertaining to S3E7: Goldeneyes to this topic for the next few weeks.

When reading beyond this point, you should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up to the ending of Episode 7 only, and full book spoilers in this topic.

[A Memory Of Why]

Well that was kinda fun.. and very disappointing 😞 

 

I'm.. I'm going to sleep on it before I be a dick and do something like loudly proclaim the books were so much cooler 😢

[JayceDa]

The books are so much cooler!

I am yet to watch this episode.

[Irvyne]

Hmmm. I have many thoughts. Overall, I thought the episode was pretty good. Still some really, really baffling decisions that are being made in the adaptation that I just cannot understand. But I'll try and put my thoughts together...

 

* It might just be me, but the range of accents in the Two Rivers drives me crazy. I'd mentioned earlier how dumb it is having Rand, Mat and Perrin all speaking in different accents when they literally grew up in the same isolated society. Different Two Rivers characters in this latest episode were talking in all range of different styles. Did no one on production think this would come across as really fake...?

 

* I dislike the use of modern real-world curses. (ie. "You b***h!" "F***ing wetlanders.") Randland has its own selection of swear words that different characters use. Hearing phrases like this in the Wheel of Time is just eye-rolling.

 

* All of those Trollocs and Darkfriends, but not a single Myrddraal...? Did the show runners just forget that they existed?

 

* I really like Faile. Loved how she grabbed Perrin by the beard at the end of the episode.

 

* OMG, are they seriously impaling Alanna AGAIN?? And she's being healed by the Cauthon girls AGAIN?? Are they actually serious right now? I can't even.

 

* It was good seeing Aram's journey through the episode. You could see he already had doubts, but once he picked up the sword, there was no turning back.

 

* Valda was burnt to death by teenage girls...? Uhhhh, okay. I guess the rest of his story will go untold then.

 

* I continue to feel like this show has really done the character of Padan Fain dirty. Out of all of his cool moments, I don't think any of them have made it into the show. This version of the character is so different, they might as well give him a different name.

 

* This episode reminded me how cool the design is on The Ways.

 

* Loial... I mean, they couldn't... Are they seriously...? Was the makeup too costly and time-consuming? Will they somehow find a way to bring him back later? I mean, it's not like he hasn't died on this show before.

[notpropaganda73]

First reaction is - ehhh, that was ok I guess

 

I'm done on the healing stuff, honestly, I just switch off now and wait til the next scene. Like what's even the point of those scenes any more, it doesn't serve any function to the story whatsoever and it's just eye rollingly boring and zero stakes and... bleugh. I did like how the Cauthons got over the mini-block to attack Valda though. And while I'm sad to see him go (great actor, great villain), I don't think he does much in the story from here on out? Might be wrong there. 

 

I guess the biggest thing here is Loial, and I'm fine with it - but I didn't really like how it was done. The off-screen nature of it has me doubting it and I'd prefer if they just committed to it happening. Loial is great, we all love him, but functionally does he do much after the Two Rivers battle in the books? He just sort of follows them around and occasionally exposition dumps from memory, and the whole arc of him trying to avoid his mother/being married off. None of it is all that important to the story from memory, so again I'm fine with him being killed off (if that's what they have actually done). 

 

Padan Fain... meh. Didn't do enough across 3 seasons to set him up. Nothing landed here for me. I think his chat with Perrin is the most he's spoken in the entire show. Which was good, you know showing the Dark Lords plans and how he's actually a coward at heart. But... meh. Also agreed on no Fades being a weird one, I'm sure it's a budget thing but I really think having at least one Fade would have added to it. 

 

Faile - 5 stars, love the actress and love how she interacts with Perrin. The bit where she was following him and fighting behind him was great. I really didn't like how she brought up Laila but then the line of "feel guilt about the enemies you didn't kill" or something like that I was like "nice" haha

 

I guess Perrin going with the Whitecloaks sort of speeds up that entire storyline from the books, again I'm fine with them moving these things around, but it didn't feel right in the scene, like Faile and the Two Rivers folk wouldn't let that happen no matter what Lord Perrin said. 

 

Best part about the episode was Aram and Ila and considering how short those scenes were generally, that's a testament to those actors in my opinion. Aram with the baby was heartbreaking, I teared up in that scene.

 

I sort of hope that Aram doesn't stay as the blacksmith, though it was a nice moment from Mistress al'Vere. I also wish we had a scene where Ila can't look at him after the battle, or Perrin finds out what happened. Small thing but I think it would have really added to it. 

 

Sidenote, were the Aiel so vitriolic about the Lost Ones in the books? Bain and Chiad seemed to despise them when they arrived. I also wasn't sure on Bain and Chiad generally in this episode. I like the actresses but something felt off.

 

Overall I would say this episode might be my least favourite of the season, which is disappointing considering how much I loved this sequence in the books. I feel like this arc has sort of missed Verin, or another Aes Sedai, to alleviate some of the bits of nonsense I feel happened with the Healing and Alanna. Those scenes really take me out of the moment - the ambush in this episode where Alanna gets impaled I was just like, oh right ok this again, rather than being in the scene. It's just frustrating.

[JyP]

  On 4/10/2025 at 11:53 AM, notpropaganda73 said:

Loial is great, we all love him, but functionally does he do much after the Two Rivers battle in the books? He just sort of follows them around and occasionally exposition dumps from memory, and the whole arc of him trying to avoid his mother/being married off. None of it is all that important to the story from memory, so again I'm fine with him being killed off (if that's what they have actually done). 

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IIRC, in the books Loial debates against his mother to decide whether Randland Ogiers will flee from the world or battle alongside humans (excluding Seanchan Ogiers which have their own thing). I don't remember how Ogiers participate in the Last Battle, surely they fight or contains enemy channelers ?

[king of nowhere]

I loved this episode, almost as much as rhuidean. It was strong, emotionsl, and it conveyed a good story.

I can see why they made the changes from the books.

My only regret is that they never mentiined ta'veren once.

 

As for alanna, i doubt they impaled her again to create tension or a fake death. I think they simply had to remove her from combat, else she could have held the pass all by herself.

I loved daisy congar. Her time was too brief

Edited April 10 by king of nowhere

[divica]

was I the only one that thougth that the editing during the battle was really bad?
the 2 rivers defenders were always jumping from location to another location without we ever hearing "fall back" or giving us the impression of iminent doom.

also, visually having the bad and good guys both dressed in the same way made it visually impossible to see who was winning. they could have given slightly diferent uniforms to one of the sides just because of visual reasons.

[Mirefox]

- Maybe I don’t watch enough fantasy but I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a battle axe sheathed like Bornhold’s.  As someone who keeps his hatchets sheathed, it was good to see.  Also impractical, though, when in a battle zone.

 

- Why in God’s name is Maksim in this show?  There are hundreds of characters in the book, most of whom are getting cut for this adaptation, and they pick a throwaway name and turn him into a main character.  Every scene he is in is pointless and bad.

 

- Cursing in hand speak was cringe.  
 

- More deus ex channeler.  Stupid.

 

- Did Alanna ask to be healed…with the spear still in her?

- How did Valda see the weaves?  And what an awfully acted, awfully written, anti-climatic scene to remove him from the show.

 

- Considering that Loial was Jordan’s stand-in in the story, it is very fitting that this fan fiction killed him off (again).

 

- Alanna lived…again…seriously, this show is a joke.

 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 2:44 PM, divica said:

was I the only one that thougth that the editing during the battle was really bad?
the 2 rivers defenders were always jumping from location to another location without we ever hearing "fall back" or giving us the impression of iminent doom.

also, visually having the bad and good guys both dressed in the same way made it visually impossible to see who was winning. they could have given slightly diferent uniforms to one of the sides just because of visual reasons.

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Yeah, the editing wasn’t great, there was certainly some confusion between sides, and they used all the cheap A/V tricks to cover up any blemishes like fast cuts, shaky camera, dark scenes, etc.  I could forgive all that if they didn’t butcher the show in so many other ways.

 

Speaking of the battle, I love how Perrin had to yell at the archers to take out the trollocs that were breaching the defenses.  What would they have done if he hadn’t yelled at them?  Just stood there?  More brilliant writing.

[notpropaganda73]

  On 4/10/2025 at 2:26 PM, king of nowhere said:

As for alanna, i doubt they impaled her again to create tension or a fake death. I think they simply had to remove her from combat, else she could have held the pass all by herself.

 

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they already established the dangers of channelers linking and drawing too much power in the S1 finale. They even had the CGI show Alanna's face a little like Amalisa. It's so easy to give a reason for Alanna not to be able to hold them off for infinity. 

 

they could also avoid this by having Aes Sedai suffer obvious fatigue from too much channeling, but so often in the show it's just channel channel channel with no downsides whatsoever. Wouldn't it be a nice touch to show that Alanna was completely wiped out and can't hold the Trollocs back any longer? I don't even mind if they injure her again but can we stop with the over the top massive spears or arrows through the gut and chest, is that so much to ask? Like how many people did we see go down with a single arrow in this battle, yet Alanna survives long enough to be Healed no matter how many arrows hit her or spears impale her - are Aes Sedai like Wolverine or something? 

 

they write themselves into corners and the only way out is "dramatic" injuries that are Healed within a scene or two. 

 

I think S3 has been great generally but sorry this sort of thing really really annoys me and I'm struggling to let it go 😂

Edited April 10 by notpropaganda73

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 11:09 AM, Irvyne said:

* I dislike the use of modern real-world curses. (ie. "You b***h!" "F***ing wetlanders.") Randland has its own selection of swear words that different characters use. Hearing phrases like this in the Wheel of Time is just eye-rolling.

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I agree completely that it is both eye-rolling and a complete fumble where it comes to using the phrases already created for this world, but it also comes across as juvenile immature.

 

It couldn’t be more clear that someone in the chain of production really wanted to tap in to the GoT vibes with its violence, sex, and language, but at the same time they seem to want to keep their TV-14 rating to draw in as many viewers as possible by veiling their nudity and cursing in subtitles and stuff like that.  It’s like seeing a 12-year-old acting touch on the playground but then looking around for the adults and whispering a curse.  

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 3:24 PM, notpropaganda73 said:

 

they already established the dangers of channelers linking and drawing too much power in the S1 finale. They even had the CGI show Alanna's face a little like Amalisa. It's so easy to give a reason for Alanna not to be able to hold them off for infinity. 

 

they could also avoid this by having Aes Sedai suffer obvious fatigue from too much channeling, but so often in the show it's just channel channel channel with no downsides whatsoever. Wouldn't it be a nice touch to show that Alanna was completely wiped out and can't hold the Trollocs back any longer? I don't even mind if they injure her again but can we stop with the over the top massive spears or arrows through the gut and chest, is that so much to ask? Like how many people did we see go down with a single arrow in this battle, yet Alanna survives long enough to be Healed no matter how many arrows hit her or spears impale her - are Aes Sedai like Wolverine or something? 

 

they write themselves into corners and the only way out is "dramatic" injuries that are Healed within a scene or two. 

 

I think S3 has been great generally but sorry this this of things really really annoys me and I'm struggling to let it go 😂

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You don’t need to let it go.  The writing in this show is amateur at best and this whole playing fast and loose with injuries and healing is asinine and just one of hundreds of examples that this team doesn’t deserve this story.

[LTL]

Who'd have thought Alanna would have more shafts in her after Ihvon's death than before.

[DigificWriter]

  On 4/10/2025 at 11:09 AM, Irvyne said:

I mean, it's not like he hasn't died on this show before.

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Nobody died at the end of Season 1. When are people going to give up that debunked 'criticism'?

 

Thoughts on Episode 7:

* I spent most of the episode trying to figure out what the Eucatastrophe was going to be, and was disappointed that it turned out to be Perrin talking Fain into calling a 'truce'.

 

* Dain apparently temporarily switching sides really needed an explanation

 

* I was,100% convinced after Season 1 Episode 5 that Aram was,dead, and was just a tiny bit disappointed that he turned back up in this episode just because it kind of retroactively lowered the stakes of Episode 1x05; I was glad to see Ila again, though

 

* Given that this episode only resolved one of the four storylines that got the lion's share of the focus this season, I'm a bit worried that we won't get a resolution to the plot point of Perrin turning himself in, which is disappointing because the stakes aren't high enough to have that be a 'cliffhanger'

 

* I think we can pretty safely say at this point that a certain thing that happens with Alanna in the books isn't going to happen in the show, which is good

 

* Valda dying by fire was an incredibly appropriate outcome given that the very first time we saw him, he was burning a woman to death

 

* This is more of a comment about the season as a whole, but I still haven't found an episode that I would be willing to describe as an absolute favorite, which makes me think that the show is going to end up going 3 for 3 in terms of the Season Finales being my favorites

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 4:44 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

Nobody died at the end of Season 1. When are people going to give up that debunked 'criticism'?

 

Thoughts on Episode 7:

* I spent most of the episode trying to figure out what the Eucatastrophe was going to be, and was disappointed that it turned out to be Perrin talking Fain into calling a 'truce'.

 

* Dain apparently temporarily switching sides really needed an explanation

 

* I was,100% convinced after Season 1 Episode 5 that Aram was,dead, and was just a tiny bit disappointed that he turned back up in this episode just because it kind of retroactively lowered the stakes of Episode 1x05; I was glad to see Ila again, though

 

* Given that this episode only resolved one of the four storylines that got the lion's share of the focus this season, I'm a bit worried that we won't get a resolution to the plot point of Perrin turning himself in, which is disappointing because the stakes aren't high enough to have that be a 'cliffhanger'

 

* I think we can pretty safely say at this point that a certain thing that happens with Alanna in the books isn't going to happen in the show, which is good

 

* Valda dying by fire was an incredibly appropriate outcome given that the very first time we saw him, he was burning a woman to death

 

* This is more of a comment about the season as a whole, but I still haven't found an episode that I would be willing to describe as an absolute favorite, which makes me think that the show is going to end up going 3 for 3 in terms of the Season Finales being my favorites

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If you even get knicked by the SL dagger, you die a horrific death.  They established it in the show.  Then Loial got stabbed by it.  How is that a debunked myth?  Just because the writers are so bat they can’t keep their own story straight doesn’t mean we have to pretend like the show has no rules.

Edited April 10 by Mirefox

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 4:44 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

* Valda dying by fire was an incredibly appropriate outcome given that the very first time we saw him, he was burning a woman to death

 

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It’s also appropriate comeuppance considering his burning to death was as the hands of the girls whose mother he burned to death.  I thought the scene was really sloppy but sure, I guess there’s some meaning there.

[DigificWriter]

  On 4/10/2025 at 4:47 PM, Mirefox said:

If you even he knocked by the SL dagger, you die a horrific death.  They established it in the show.  Then Loial got stabbed by it.  How is that a debunked myth?

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I can't wait to kill surprising people that are going to really pain book fans in their deepest heart of hearts, but Loial is not dead in the finale of Season 1.

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Rafe made this statement at the end of Season 1.

 

You can criticize the show for not being consistent in its depiction of the deadly nature of the Shadar Logoth dagger, but claiming that Loial died in the Season 1 finale isn't a valid critique of anything because it's a blatant and demonstrably false statement.

[Turin Turambar]

I really liked this episode. I must be a softy or easy to please or something. There were a few issues I had but the highs were much better. 

 

RIP Brother Book ( if he's dead). The issue I had with this was it seemed there was an explosion at the waygate, so how did Bain and Chiad survive? 

 

Maxsim looked terrible with the bow. I don't know if that was intended or not though. 

 

Faile was awesome. The actress is doing great and I like her in the show earlier than from the books.

 

Happy that Valda was appropriately burned to death. Karma baby. Mat better sit up straight around his sisters, lol.

 

I kinda hope we get a "we come" moment to break Perrin out. Need more wolfs.

[Sabio]

I don't mind Valda dying, because in the book I don't think he does to much except become head of the white cloaks and assault Elayne's mom.  I think it's probably for the best they ended him now.

Edited April 11 by Sabio

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 5:06 PM, Sabio said:

I don't mind Valda dying, because in the book I don't think he does do much except become head of the white cloaks and assault Elayne's mom.  I think it's probably for the best they ended him now.

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I don’t mind him dying, I just thought the scene was sloppy.

[Kaleb]

  On 4/10/2025 at 5:06 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I kinda hope we get a "we come" moment to break Perrin out. Need more wolfs.

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Yes, I wish there had been any wolf moments other than dream Hopper this season. A big miss for Perrin's arc, despite a lot of quality character development for him in other areas.

Edited April 10 by Kaleb

[DigificWriter]

@Kaleb The show explicitly cut the 'Wolf Dream' aspect of Perrin's Two Rivers story (per Marcus Rutherford himself), so the Hopper in Perrin's dream wasn't the real Hopper.

[Kaleb]

  On 4/10/2025 at 6:22 PM, DigificWriter said:

@Kaleb The show explicitly cut the 'Wolf Dream' aspect of Perrin's Two Rivers story (per Marcus Rutherford himself), so the Hopper in Perrin's dream wasn't the real Hopper.

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Yes, exactly. It wasn't TAR, it was his own dream. Edited to what I originally typed, "dream" Hopper.

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/10/2025 at 5:06 PM, Sabio said:

I don't mind Valda dying, because in the book I don't think he does do much except become head of the white cloaks and assault Elayne's mom.  I think it's probably for the best they ended him now.

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It was an appropriate death for Valda, but on the other hand I was looking forward to his duel with Galad.