S3E5 - Tel’aran’rhiod

[SinisterDeath]

Season 3 - Episode 5: Tel’aran’rhiod
Director: Marta Cunningham

Writers: Ajoke Ibironke

Runtime: 1 h 9 min

  Quote

Episode Description: Egwene learns Rand's dark secret. Perrin stages a daring rescue. Nynaeve, Elayne, Mat, and Min hunt the Black Ajah.

Expand  

Let's keep DM Tidy, and try to keep all discussions pertaining to S3E5: Tel’aran’rhiod to this topic for the next few weeks.

When reading beyond this point, you should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up to the ending of Episode 4 only, and full book spoilers in this topic.

[A Memory Of Why]

Alright, I'm still very much enjoying the show but..

 

I'm back to having mixed feelings. Think I'll sleep on it before commenting further.

 

Like, its still a fun episode but.. you know?

[Irvyne]

Aw man.

I should have known it couldn't last.

That was... not good.

After last week's amazing episode, this feels like we've reverted back to Season 1 or 2.

Somehow, they made entering Tel'aran'rhiod, one of the most exciting and intriguing concepts in the series, seem really boring! Not to mention that it seems really unclear how this version of T'A'R even works. It doesn't seem consistent with the original version, and Egwene just somehow masters dream-jumping in a day?

And we've suddenly gone from following the book's story, back to "let's just make up our own plots." Sigh. Another Aes Sedai gets punctured by multiple wounds, but nah, it'll be fine.

And having characters like Moiraine staring off into the distance sadly, because she's sad she's not with her lover... That is SO not Moiraine. Everyone seems to be crying about their loved ones this episode.

I know they've made it very clear that defined races just aren't a thing in this version of the world, but it just doesn't ring true. If Lan, who in this version is Asian, is the king of Malkier, and he meets someone else from his ancient heritage, why is she blonde?

And the sea folk, who in the books were very dark skinned, here are just a mixture? I think I saw a blonde guy on the boat. Accents are also a weird one. Mat's cockney-ish accent certainly fits the character, but are we to believe he grew up in the same society as Rand, Perrin and Egwene, who all have different accents? Even Mat's mother has a completely different accent to him. Just little details that stand out to me and make the show seem fake.

Another thing that struck me about this episode was that the direction and continuity seemed off in a number of different scenes. A character would be looking in one direction, then the shot would cut, and their head would be in a different position, causing a jarring jump cut.

Overall, a disappointment after the highs of last week, and definitely the weakest episode this season. 😞

[zacz1987]

Did anyone else find a large portion of this episode so dark that they couldn't really see what was happening on screen? 

[Mirefox]

This episode was a bit bland after last week.  I liked seeing Mat bicker with Nyn and Elayne.  Gaul is barely used but he’s great.

 

I also liked that Mat’s mom was burned at the stake.  I’ve complained that this show is inconsistent (like having Natti care less about the girls in S1E1 but sacrifice herself here - that’s out of character for the show), but having Valda treat her mercilessly fits his behavior throughout the show.

 

Was this the first time we see the sea folk? 
 

Why aren’t Bain and Chiad veiled in the Whitecloak camp?  This is such a frustrating thing as it is such a defining characteristic in the books and was at least explained in the show.  
 

Are we supposed to pretend at this point that Mat’s dagger/lightsaber/ashinarai never existed?

[Mirefox]

The causal use of stabbing needs to stop now.  It is ridiculous how often people are getting stabbed multiple times in this show and not only being healed instantly but acting like it barely happened.  And then we are supposed to simultaneously believe that a wound is debilitating or deadly?  Peering just took an axe to a chest earlier this season and shrugged it off but a knife to the side this week should be concerning?

[king of nowhere]

i can't help seeing all the many ways rafe is fanboying over egwene. she had many unpleasant sides in the book, here they were scrubbed clean.

her break-up with rand is just the last. in the book, they both lost interest after a long separation. not that she ever showed much interest in rand, even when they were together.

here, rand is consorting with lanfear. and egwene never dallied with aram, nor did she act jealous at the mention of the name elayne. she wasn't freed from the a'dam, she freed herself.

i was expecting her to find bair disguised as a monster for disobeying, but she's not.

 

i hope they at least keep the "i have toh" scene, though that will probably be for next season

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/27/2025 at 9:36 AM, zacz1987 said:

Did anyone else find a large portion of this episode so dark that they couldn't really see what was happening on screen? 

Expand  

There were a couple of parts where my laptop was showing the darkness as a more washed out "black" compared to everything else, and that's usually an indication that they went a little too dark unless you have a good TV. (Like the one I have in the other room)

Still, it's not nearly as bad as that one episode on Game of Thrones...

 

  On 3/27/2025 at 12:56 PM, Mirefox said:

This episode was a bit bland after last week.  I liked seeing Mat bicker with Nyn and Elayne.  Gaul is barely used but he’s great.

Expand  

 

Bold Text: I assume you're talking about the Book here, 'cause otherwise Gaul's not in the show yet. lol

 

  On 3/27/2025 at 12:56 PM, Mirefox said:

I also liked that Mat’s mom was burned at the stake.  I’ve complained that this show is inconsistent (like having Natti care less about the girls in S1E1 but sacrifice herself here - that’s out of character for the show), but having Valda treat her mercilessly fits his behavior throughout the show.

Expand  

This, combined with the Dream Sequence was just...

 

  On 3/27/2025 at 12:56 PM, Mirefox said:

Was this the first time we see the sea folk? 

Expand  

In the show? Yes. Technically, not the first time we've seen channelers speed up boats. (Seanchan)

 

  On 3/27/2025 at 12:56 PM, Mirefox said:

Why aren’t Bain and Chiad veiled in the Whitecloak camp?  This is such a frustrating thing as it is such a defining characteristic in the books and was at least explained in the show.  

Expand  

This mainly stems from a director thing. They want the camera to see the actors face, so the viewer can know which actor is doing the stabbing... Otherwise, all that hair and makeup they just did on the actor is going to waste, and they could just hire a stunt double between takes and you'd never know.

 

It's kind of like in "The Boys", that "Black Noir" character could be played by virtually anyone...

 

  On 3/27/2025 at 12:56 PM, Mirefox said:

Are we supposed to pretend at this point that Mat’s dagger/lightsaber/ashinarai never existed?

Expand  

Just like a lot of things with time skips... we're probably just going to have to assume the Dagger was locked up in the tower because that thing is pretty damned evil and Mat probably didn't want to be near it after much advice and pestering from Moiraine on the Trip. Hell, maybe they even had to stop Mat or Moiraine from throwing it into the ocean...

 

Either way, it's possible he'll get his signature weapon after they go to the Stone of Tear Next Season...

 

  On 3/27/2025 at 1:04 PM, Mirefox said:

The causal use of stabbing needs to stop now.  It is ridiculous how often people are getting stabbed multiple times in this show and not only being healed instantly but acting like it barely happened.  And then we are supposed to simultaneously believe that a wound is debilitating or deadly?  Peering just took an axe to a chest earlier this season and shrugged it off but a knife to the side this week should be concerning?

Expand  

I do agree. This is mostly on the Writers/Directors. They've looked at all these TV shows and Movies with a LOT of violence these days. Look at Reacher, The Boys, Invincible as just an example on Amazon. Then you have what went on in the Daredevil TV Show (New and Old), The Punisher TV Series. Even some of the more gnarly fights in some of those Super Hero tv shows on CW. You've got Dead Pool.

 

They look at all that and then they're like. "Wow, and we can do a lot of that, and more because we got people who can HEAL!" 

I'm sure Sarah Nakamura was ready to throw some hands over the writers ignoring massive parts of the magic system as it was... As well as the drawbacks of healing and how they could implement that into the writing in the show, even if they don't necessarily incorporate the downtime from healing due to the show's accelerated pace...

[Turin Turambar]

Holy Moly. I guess I'm in the minority. I really enjoyed the episode. I do get the thing about Egwene being really good,  really quickly at T'aR. I just chalking up to not having time for all the little lessons. I really liked they did touch on the clothes thing. To keep doing it would be gratuitous for the show. The fact Egwene managed something the Aiel didn't expect she could I think is meant to show her as a "natural". I've mentioned the healing thing before. I guess that is just how it is in this iteration of Randland. The axe thing happened in the middle of TV. Perrin got stabbed out in the middle of the woods. Alanna was shot several times but it didn't look like any were in immediately deadly areas. Maxsim's one arrow was probably the most dangerous wound of all of them. 

I absolutely was wrecked by the dreams. All the others except Rand. Mat's mum being killed by valuable might be something that comes back to haunt him later. Especially if he carries more of Carridin's story from the books. 

Watching it again right now. 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/27/2025 at 6:30 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Holy Moly. I guess I'm in the minority.

Expand  

I definitely enjoyed it. 

  On 3/27/2025 at 6:30 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Mat's mum being killed by valuable might be something that comes back to haunt him later.

Expand  

Well, it certainly came back to haunt me during Mat's dream.

Natti telling Mat she was proud of him....

 

 

[Ithillian Turambar]

Hopper!

 

🐺

[Mirefox]

  On 3/27/2025 at 5:54 PM, SinisterDeath said:

There were a couple of parts where my laptop was showing the darkness as a more washed out "black" compared to everything else, and that's usually an indication that they went a little too dark unless you have a good TV. (Like the one I have in the other room)

Still, it's not nearly as bad as that one episode on Game of Thrones...

 

 

Bold Text: I assume you're talking about the Book here, 'cause otherwise Gaul's not in the show yet. lol

 

This, combined with the Dream Sequence was just...

 

In the show? Yes. Technically, not the first time we've seen channelers speed up boats. (Seanchan)

 

This mainly stems from a director thing. They want the camera to see the actors face, so the viewer can know which actor is doing the stabbing... Otherwise, all that hair and makeup they just did on the actor is going to waste, and they could just hire a stunt double between takes and you'd never know.

 

It's kind of like in "The Boys", that "Black Noir" character could be played by virtually anyone...

 

Just like a lot of things with time skips... we're probably just going to have to assume the Dagger was locked up in the tower because that thing is pretty damned evil and Mat probably didn't want to be near it after much advice and pestering from Moiraine on the Trip. Hell, maybe they even had to stop Mat or Moiraine from throwing it into the ocean...

 

Either way, it's possible he'll get his signature weapon after they go to the Stone of Tear Next Season...

 

I do agree. This is mostly on the Writers/Directors. They've looked at all these TV shows and Movies with a LOT of violence these days. Look at Reacher, The Boys, Invincible as just an example on Amazon. Then you have what went on in the Daredevil TV Show (New and Old), The Punisher TV Series. Even some of the more gnarly fights in some of those Super Hero tv shows on CW. You've got Dead Pool.

 

They look at all that and then they're like. "Wow, and we can do a lot of that, and more because we got people who can HEAL!" 

I'm sure Sarah Nakamura was ready to throw some hands over the writers ignoring massive parts of the magic system as it was... As well as the drawbacks of healing and how they could implement that into the writing in the show, even if they don't necessarily incorporate the downtime from healing due to the show's accelerated pace...

Expand  

Oh my goodness, I meant Rhuarc.  This is why I should drink my coffee before posting anything online…

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/27/2025 at 6:54 PM, Mirefox said:

Oh my goodness, I meant Rhuarc.  This is why I should drink my coffee before posting anything online…

Expand  

Ahhhh! That makes far more sense!

 

Well, even if Rhuarc didn't do much this episode, he had his hands full. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

I don't like when they film night scenes in the day and then just make it dark in post production 

 

I don't like that in any show.

 

That's when you can't make anything out because they just darken everything. 

 

But I guess actors and stuff don't want to spend months filming actually at night, like they did in the Two Towers.

[Skipp]

  On 3/27/2025 at 6:30 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Holy Moly. I guess I'm in the minority. I really enjoyed the episode. I do get the thing about Egwene being really good,  really quickly at T'aR. I just chalking up to not having time for all the little lessons. I really liked they did touch on the clothes thing. To keep doing it would be gratuitous for the show. The fact Egwene managed something the Aiel didn't expect she could I think is meant to show her as a "natural". I've mentioned the healing thing before. I guess that is just how it is in this iteration of Randland. The axe thing happened in the middle of TV. Perrin got stabbed out in the middle of the woods. Alanna was shot several times but it didn't look like any were in immediately deadly areas. Maxsim's one arrow was probably the most dangerous wound of all of them. 

I absolutely was wrecked by the dreams. All the others except Rand. Mat's mum being killed by valuable might be something that comes back to haunt him later. Especially if he carries more of Carridin's story from the books. 

Watching it again right now. 

Expand  

 

Agreed, I absolutely loved this episode.  Might be my favourite of the season.  Episode 4 is clearly the best of the season but I loved just about everything about episode 5.

 

I got stupidly emotional during the ending "dream" sequences, seeing Perrin, Faile and Hopper all together.  Seeing Mat happy with his family, his mother telling him how proud she was, really triggered a gut punch from earlier in the episode.  I did not anticipate Nati Cauthon's fate.

 

I did not expect to see the Seafolk in the show.  I thought of all things in the books they could be easily cut with little repercussion but colour me surprised on what we did get.  The look of the Windfinders weaves reminded me of the Northern lights.  Seeing Elayne's dream of wishing she was a Windfinder was just cathartic.

 

Aviendha's entire MOOD towards Rand is just so spot on from the books.  Seeing Rand kinda relax about the whole Dragon/Car'a'carn thing for a moment with Rhuarc's granddaughter. was great..... until I saw someone theorize that the granddaughter is gonna be the trigger for the scene from Tear in tSR...... another gut punch if true.

 

I am just pleased as punch this season.

Edited Thursday at 08:57 PM by Skipp

[king of nowhere]

  On 3/27/2025 at 6:30 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Holy Moly. I guess I'm in the minority. I really enjoyed the episode. I do get the thing about Egwene being really good,  really quickly at T'aR. I just chalking up to not having time for all the little lessons. I really liked they did touch on the clothes thing. To keep doing it would be gratuitous for the show. The fact Egwene managed something the Aiel didn't expect she could I think is meant to show her as a "natural". I've mentioned the healing thing before. I guess that is just how it is in this iteration of Randland. The axe thing happened in the middle of TV. Perrin got stabbed out in the middle of the woods. Alanna was shot several times but it didn't look like any were in immediately deadly areas. Maxsim's one arrow was probably the most dangerous wound of all of them. 

I absolutely was wrecked by the dreams. All the others except Rand. Mat's mum being killed by valuable might be something that comes back to haunt him later. Especially if he carries more of Carridin's story from the books. 

Watching it again right now. 

Expand  

i also liked this episode.

minus the thing i was complaining about

 

btw, i never thought bode cauthon would be anything but an extra to the show. but now that she channeled, they need to do something with her

Edited Thursday at 08:35 PM by king of nowhere

[Skipp]

And I completely forgot to mention Elaida's chat with Siuan.  My god that was tense and showed just the duality between the two.  Elaida's dialogue absolutely dripped with venom and resentment

[Mirefox]

I wrote a post about how the sea folk dress and it felt icky and decided to just edit this all out.  Can we delete posts?

Edited Thursday at 09:17 PM by Mirefox

[Jaysen Gore]

I thought it was a good, not great episode; too disjointed and exposition heavy to really flow as an episode, but it included a lot of book stuff, and I didn't hate all the newly created stuff. Random thoughts...

- I was surprised at what happened to Natti, and disappointed that the horror of that moment was downplayed

- yet again the Wolverine level of self healing ability in this show is robbing the Aes Sedai of any risk

- Elaida and Siuan's interactions were great

- Aviendha's few scenes were right out of the books, making me thing they'll go that way, and the Sister Wife thing makes me think we might get the Rand relationship after all

- Elayne is so much more likeable in the show than in the books; stunned to see the Sea Folk, and thought the entire esthetic was great.

- We got to see the proper destruction a warder can do; need to see Lan do this at least once before the end

- the dream sequence was good; hate the fact that the intro of Egwene and Lanfear was forced beforehand, though. Could have done with a "who's the girl?" 

- Has Egwene failed at anything on the series yet? 

 

And final thought that I haven't seen anyone else call out, because it was a throwaway line, but years have passed since Moiraine's little chat about listening to the wind with Egwene in the Two Rivers. Man, I hate how bad TV is at conveying time's passage. 

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/27/2025 at 12:56 PM, Mirefox said:

Gaul is barely used but he’s great.

Expand  

? Is Gaul in the show? I somehow missed that! Ah yes - already corrected - Rhuarc. Pretty sure that Gaul is cut. 
 

  On 3/27/2025 at 10:33 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

 

I thought it was a good, not great episode; too disjointed and exposition heavy to really flow as an episode, but it included a lot of book stuff, and I didn't hate all the newly created stuff.

 

Expand  

I’m in this camp. I didn’t think it was bad - but it wasn’t great either. It was decent Tv. 

  On 3/27/2025 at 7:08 PM, Ithillian Turambar said:

 

I don't like when they film night scenes in the day and then just make it dark in post production 

 

Expand  

I agree, and this would be my second biggest complaint that has nothing to do whatsoever with the books. I have no idea if the Whitecloak fight was good or not cause I couldn’t see it! 

 

  On 3/27/2025 at 5:54 PM, SinisterDeath said:

They look at all that and then they're like. "Wow, and we can do a lot of that, and more because we got people who can HEAL!" 

I'm sure Sarah Nakamura was ready to throw some hands over the writers ignoring massive parts of the magic system as it was... As well as the drawbacks of healing and how they could implement that into the writing in the show, even if they don't necessarily incorporate the downtime from healing due to the show's accelerated pace...

Expand  

 

This would be my biggest complaint. Knock it off with all the fake-out deaths. I bet they average 2 per episode thus far! In this episode there were at least 5? (Alanna got shot with like 15 arrows and is gonna be fine? Maxim stabbed. Elaida stabbed multiple times. Perrin stabbed. Dain knifed. ) 

 

At this point, I’m convinced that Alanna is just gonna heal Natti - she’s fine 😉 

 

Edited Friday at 06:43 PM by DreadLord31
got spliced weird originally on my phone

[A Memory Of Why]

So I've realised my biggest gripe with this episode is the time constraints, and with 3 more episodes to tie off at least 3 storyline it's gunna be tough i guess.

 

For an episode called TAR don't get much, though I did enjoy what we saw. Though with only a couple of sentences of "training" Eggy is remarkably adept..

 

Not much on Rand, got a bit excited for a story on mum and dad.. him being happy playing with kids is quite a contrast to where he's at in the books.

 

On that note, him and Rhuarcs daughter growing fond of each other makes me think we'll get "that" scene minus Calandor? The trailer showed Avi with a fire spear and if irc..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Cold rocks gets attacked by shadow spawn.

 

Loved everything with the Seafolk scenes, surprisingly liked how they leant right into the interpretive dancing for windfinders and the channeling was cool.

 

Elayne researching, Nyns seas stomach, poor Mat can't catch a break with where he sleeps. The characters are all working really well together.

 

Liked Perrins scenes for the most part, and Faile has been fun. I wonder if he realises she's flirting with him? Probably not, Rand and Mat are better with woman 🙃

 

Looks like we're skipping the hunt sadly, I wonder who's going to heal Allanna? She gunna heal the ole fashioned way and pout that she doesn't get to fight?

 

The tower plot feels out of place but Shohreh is doing an amazing job as usual.

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 3/27/2025 at 10:33 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

And final thought that I haven't seen anyone else call out, because it was a throwaway line, but years have passed since Moiraine's little chat about listening to the wind with Egwene in the Two Rivers. Man, I hate how bad TV is at conveying time's passage. 

Expand  

 

Yeah that brought me out, I don't care if they have more time pass in the series as it's kinda crazy and 14 book series covers roughly 2 and a half years.

 

It really doesn't feel like years though.

[Mailman]

After last weeks episode raising some faint hopes this one feels even worse. This was just made-up rot for like 90% of the episode.

 

So Alanna is dead right! No Aes Sedai to heal her and she is in the middle of nowhere with at least half a dozen crossbow bolts in her. No bloody way is she going to be okay.

 

I've turned the bond off, oh piss off I am so glad that you are clearly and unequivocally dead. I am so sick and tired of the never-ending inserted melodrama between Alanna and her warders. Taylor Napier cannot act his way out of a paper bag. This whole arc is terrible and is just a time sponge the show could not afford.

 

The interpretive dance of channeling just looks silly.

 

Egwenes dream stuff what is happening she has one lesson and suddenly she can bring Moiraine into the dream and take her too and place her in Siuans dream. Then she goes on what a dream visit compilation? Every single main character is asleep at the same time?

 

Why the hell are they keeping the BA in the 13th depository? Do they not have cells in the tower?

 

This was by far the worst episode of the season and among the worst in the entire series.

 

The bloody stabbing and healing is just beyond stupid at this point.

 

Theres so much more wrong with this episode. 

Edited Friday at 12:28 AM by Mailman

[Samt]

  On 3/27/2025 at 11:39 PM, Mailman said:

Taylor Napier cannot act his way out of a paper bag. This whole arc is terrible and is just a time sponge the show could not 

Expand  

Rage made up a part for his boyfriend.  It’s nepotic drivel.  

[DigificWriter]

Thoughts and comments on the episode:

 

* In-universe, it's been at least two years since the events of Shadow's Waiting, so Moiraine isn't wrong.

 

* I'm not sure that I believe that the dreams of her friends that Egwene entered are actually things that they would've been dreaming about given the current circumstances that they're in, but that's entirely a 'me' issue. 

 

* The further we get into the season, the more convinced I'm becoming of two things:

1) Moiraine is dying permanently

2) Rafe and his team are saving the Tower Coup for a future season

 

* Valda needs to die... slowly and painfully

 

* I'm almost 100% positive that the Grey Man who attacked Elaida was Jaichim