S3E3:Seeds of Shadow

[SinisterDeath]

Season 3 - Episode 3: Seeds of Shadow
Director: Thomas Napper

Writers: Beverly Okhio

Runtime: 1 h 5 min

  Quote

Episode Description: Nynaeve and Elayne are given a deadly mission. Perrin learns the consequences of his rage. Lanfear begins to play a dangerous game.

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Let's keep DM Tidy, and try to keep all discussions pertaining to S3E3:Seeds of Shadow to this topic for the next few weeks.

When reading beyond this point, you should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up to the ending of Episode 3 only, and full book spoilers in this topic.

[A Memory Of Why]

Ok, so again I have lots of thoughts.. overwhelming positive at that.

 

Gunna need a bit to wrap my head around it all, but I do want to say.. 

 

How awesome was that cold opening? 

 

Forsaken dissention, cool ass gateways, nae'bliss - oh my 🤗

 

Confirmation of Ravin and Semirhage! I think i got it backwards with Asmo merging with Ravin, so now we only have one unconfirmed male forsaken.

 

And when Moggy popped out! 

 

The whole scene was very entertaining. One of the consistently cool things they've done with this show is the forsaken scenes.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think I'd mind if they flipped it and made all about the "chosen" and how they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those kids.!

 

P.s. loved they finally gave us the title opening, always liked that. Kinda wished they changed it per season to fit the themes though.

[Pandemonium]

^{this show has officially become badass.  the choice of forsaken is interesting.  Who is the last remaining forsaken;  demandred or asmodean?  Rahvin already using compulsion on everyone is quite interesting.}  

 

^{Mat Cauthon is really making his mark.  this show was desperately missing his comedic value.  His scene with Siuan was classic--- and the fight with Galad and Gawyn was on point.  That scene alone will probably bring in new watchers once it gets posted on social.}  

 

Verin took over Sheriam's role for the post Grey man death with the girls.  I don't like that they are giving her too much suspicion already.

 

Melindra being Malkieri is probably a good way to build in the Aiel respect for Lan.  

 

Loving the Black Ajah even more now after their brutal wedding take down.  The one power weaves, compulsion weaves, ect are looking way better this season.

 

Everything about the cinematography  from the two rivers to Aiel waste is a major improvement as well. 

 

Still waiting to see what happens with the Redstone doorway in Tar Valon.  Min had the vision, so Mat's leaving party is somehow going to be steered in that direction before they depart (almost certainly next episode).  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[king of nowhere]

lanfear mentions sakarnen as a female sa'angreal. does this mean there is no choedan kal? will rand cleanse the source with only callandor? doesn't seem enough.

 

the healing waves that the yellows were trying to heal mat were the best channeling cgi yet.

 

elaida is badass. they absolutely succeeded in painting her as a skilled politician with only a handful of scenes.

[DreadLord31]

Loved the cold open. Forsaken scenes continue to be the shows greatest strength. 
 

The writing this season is about 10x better than it has been the last 2 seasons. No wasted time. Dialogue is on point - characters are being developed and showcased through the acting and writing much more than previously (Matt in particular). 

For example, Sammael had … what … one line? But you have the sense of who he is - he hates LTT and wants to fight. 

 

Im ready to actually like Faile - let’s see if they can pull it off?! 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

For me there is a big question regarding how much Gaebril/Rhavin has altered Galad and Gawyn's personality.  In the books they were gone from Caemlyn long before he arrived, here he states he has amended their memories to include him (and presumably Elaine's as well, as soon as they met).  They are both shown as much more arrogant and abrasive than their book characters.  Also is the Morgase succession scene a real memory or something he has imposed?

[DaddyFinn]

Gaebril's subtle use of compulsion was very good

[DigificWriter]

Gaebril was just broadcasting compulsion (and false memories) constantly, which is really scary.

 

Also, I was right that announcing the casting of Nuno Lopes as Gaebril was confirmation of Rahvin's inclusion.

[Pandemonium]

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:02 AM, DigificWriter said:

Gaebril was just broadcasting compulsion (and false memories) constantly, which is really scary.

 

Also, I was right that announcing the casting of Nuno Lopes as Gaebril was confirmation of Rahvin's inclusion.

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How does that work?  I kept wondering how he does the compulsion in an instant without speaking or communicating in any visible way.  not sure if it worked like that in the books, at least that wasn't my impression from the books

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:25 AM, Pandemonium said:

How does that work?  I kept wondering how he does the compulsion in an instant without speaking or communicating in any visible way.  not sure if it worked like that in the books, at least that wasn't my impression from the books

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I'm not a book reader, so I've got no idea, but it really shows that, despite his being much weaker, relatively speaking, than Ishy, Lanfear, and Moggy, he's still pretty powerful.

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:25 AM, Pandemonium said:

How does that work?  I kept wondering how he does the compulsion in an instant without speaking or communicating in any visible way.  not sure if it worked like that in the books, at least that wasn't my impression from the books

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From what I remember compulsion was used in varying ways.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

When Moggy used it on the girls she spoke commands like she was programming them but on Liandrin she kinda brute forces it without speaking, and complains that's to much like Graendel.

 

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:31 AM, DigificWriter said:

 

I'm not a book reader, so I've got no idea, but it really shows that, despite his being much weaker, relatively speaking, than Ishy, Lanfear, and Moggy, he's still pretty powerful.

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Yeah na, in the books Rahvin is as strong as a male channeller can be. In the cold opening when Lanfear says Sammael is the weakest, it pans to Rahvin and he has this little smile, like he's gloating / amused.

 

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:02 AM, DigificWriter said:

Gaebril was just broadcasting compulsion (and false memories) constantly, which is really scary.

 

Also, I was right that announcing the casting of Nuno Lopes as Gaebril was confirmation of Rahvin's inclusion.

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Yeah, rewatching episode 2 and was amazed at how brazen he was. Cheeky bugger was channeling in the hall, not just Suian and her keeper but most likely the sitters too. Ando being the most prominent country in the south he'd want to cover his bases.

 

Such a cool way to show how crazy the forsaken are.

 

Totally scary, I felt right there he could take down the tower on his own if he wanted

 

What a cool scene in hindsight 😯

[SinisterDeath]

I seem to remember someone somewhere asking about Elaida's hands shaking and I can't find the comment now... 

 

But I wonder if they're making that a side effect of ongoing compulsion?

Also, she called for "Alice".

I wonder if Alice is

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"Aran'gar"

 

[wotfan4472]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:17 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

From what I remember compulsion was used in varying ways.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

When Moggy used it on the girls she spoke commands like she was programming them but on Liandrin she kinda brute forces it without speaking, and complains that's to much like Graendel.

 

 

Yeah na, in the books Rahvin is as strong as a male channeller can be. In the cold opening when Lanfear says Sammael is the weakest, it pans to Rahvin and he has this little smile, like he's gloating / amused.

 

 

Yeah, rewatching episode 2 and was amazed at how brazen he was. Cheeky bugger was channeling in the hall, not just Suian and her keeper but most likely the sitters too. Ando being the most prominent country in the south he'd want to cover his bases.

 

Such a cool way to show how crazy the forsaken are.

 

Totally scary, I felt right there he could take down the tower on his own if he wanted

 

What a cool scene in hindsight 😯

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I loved Rahvin there, and seeing Sammael for the first time is great. The split beginning as a result of his presence makes much more sense now.

Book Rahvin would not go near them in any way.

[wotfan4472]

  On 3/14/2025 at 3:31 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I seem to remember someone somewhere asking about Elaida's hands shaking and I can't find the comment now... 

 

But I wonder if they're making that a side effect of ongoing compulsion?

Also, she called for "Alice".

I wonder if Alice is

  Reveal hidden contents

"Aran'gar"

 

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I got the sense at first it was an epileptic seizure. I then thought it was due to no alcohol consumption. That is what I thought, anyway, since I have seen the signs of both in my life from family members, and both look identical.

 

Or it is entirely possible Rahvin used compulsion on her, she is fighting it, and the battle is displaying that physical sign.

 

Alice could be Aran'gar. We will just have to wait and see if Alice is part of Elaida's backstory, or is in fact something else altogether.

[Windigo]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:17 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

From what I remember compulsion was used in varying ways.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

When Moggy used it on the girls she spoke commands like she was programming them but on Liandrin she kinda brute forces it without speaking, and complains that's to much like Graendel.

 

 

Yeah na, in the books Rahvin is as strong as a male channeller can be. In the cold opening when Lanfear says Sammael is the weakest, it pans to Rahvin and he has this little smile, like he's gloating / amused.

 

 

Yeah, rewatching episode 2 and was amazed at how brazen he was. Cheeky bugger was channeling in the hall, not just Suian and her keeper but most likely the sitters too. Ando being the most prominent country in the south he'd want to cover his bases.

 

Such a cool way to show how crazy the forsaken are.

 

Totally scary, I felt right there he could take down the tower on his own if he wanted

 

What a cool scene in hindsight 😯

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I caught the Leane pause on first watch, but it took a re-watch to catch how masterful that was played, with editor cuts of the brief changes and pauses when Gabriel is introduced, and when Siuan welcomes him out of character with a smile and warm greetings. 
I need to go back and re-watch the first interactions with Elayne, and when he I think he was mentioned in a previous episode.

[DigificWriter]

Elaida's shaking looked to me like the same kind of tremors that can affect people who are suffering  from a debilitating degenerative illness or who are just getting up there in age, and given how old she has to be in order to actually physically appear as old as she does, my best bet is that she's suffering from some kind of age-related malady that affects her dexterity.

Edited March 14 by DigificWriter

[Sabio]

Lan says Aiel don't get tattoos.  Where did Melindra get her giant back tat?

 

Anyone else notice the servant who seemed to be slowly doing her job towards the end when Liandrin was asking about the male A'dam?  

 

I think in the book doing a mass room compulsion wouldn't be possible, for the show I'm guessing anything is possible seeing how they have changed stuff like healing and warder rage after his Aes Sedai dies.  Which is why it's easier to just have the forsaken be some noble etc who just suddenly appeared.  No need to worry about false memories on a lot of people.  You figure he doesn't need to use compulsion on the whole room.  Most of those Aes Sedai in there probably have never seen him before, might never have even heard of him, and probably haven't left the tower in years.  So not much need to worry about them.  

 

 

[Windigo]

  On 3/14/2025 at 7:33 PM, Sabio said:

 

I think in the book doing a mass room compulsion wouldn't be possible, for the show I'm guessing anything is possible seeing how they have changed stuff like healing and warder rage after his Aes Sedai dies.  

 

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I am not sure what you mean by warder rage that feels very book accurate to me?

I agree they have leveled compulsion up from the books, but I do not see it as being out of possibility.
How many there would have had any idea of him or the Andor Nobility anyway?  For most it would just be a simple suggestion,

  Reveal hidden contents

like the book mention of novices that had learned some form of minor compulsion to get things they want

It would only need to have been stronger individual compulsion for those like Leane and Siuan. 
 

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/14/2025 at 7:33 PM, Sabio said:

Where did Melindra get her giant back tat?

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Malkier (probably as a child).

  On 3/14/2025 at 7:33 PM, Sabio said:

Anyone else notice the servant who seemed to be slowly doing her job towards the end when Liandrin was asking about the male A'dam? 

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That was (apparently) Moggy in disguise.

[Sabio]

  On 3/14/2025 at 8:38 PM, Windigo said:

I am not sure what you mean by warder rage that feels very book accurate to me?

I agree they have leveled compulsion up from the books, but I do not see it as being out of possibility.
How many there would have had any idea of him or the Andor Nobility anyway?  For most it would just be a simple suggestion,

  Reveal hidden contents

like the book mention of novices that had learned some form of minor compulsion to get things they want

It would only need to have been stronger individual compulsion for those like Leane and Siuan. 
 

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They haven't when the Aes Sedai died the warder would basically go into a suicide rage, unless their bond is set to pass to someone else upon the Aes Sedai's death.  in the series it seems more of a slow they lose the will to live.  

 

You would basically have to make a weave for each person in the room, and plant it in their head.  

Edited March 15 by Sabio

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:17 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

when Lanfear says Sammael is the weakest

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Suggesting they are conflating Sammael with Be'lial (book weakest) so he may be in Tear.

[Irvyne]

My goodness, this season is a big step-up in quality.

 

I'm still wishing it stuck closer to the source material, but it's feeling like a genuine adaptation, for the most part. A few thoughts...

 

My theory on Gaebril being a real person and Rahvin just wearing his face as a disguise turned out to be completely wrong. Oh. Compulsion. Oh well. That makes sense too I guess. 😅

 

Elaida's scheming is great, it shows what kind of adversary she's going to be going forward. But wow, my own throat hurts every time she talks.

 

Min and Mat's dialogue was weird this episode. It's like they took a single conversation that was in one scene, and split it up into multiple scenes with no lead-in.

 

Mat is my fave though. His fight vs. Galad and Gawyn was awesome. 😎

 

And we have Faile too, now. Apart from the mullet hair, she looks pretty similar to how I'd imagined her.

 

Does anyone else get occasional whiplash with the amount of different accents in a single scene though? I like that people from different regions have different accents, but sometimes I find it a bit hard to follow.

 

All up though, I'm actually excited to see what else this season has in store. I definitely wasn't saying that after three episodes of the previous seasons! 😅

[Turin Turambar]

  On 3/15/2025 at 10:44 AM, Irvyne said:

My goodness, this season is a big step-up in quality.

 

I'm still wishing it stuck closer to the source material, but it's feeling like a genuine adaptation, for the most part. A few thoughts...

 

My theory on Gaebril being a real person and Rahvin just wearing his face as a disguise turned out to be completely wrong. Oh. Compulsion. Oh well. That makes sense too I guess. 😅

 

Elaida's scheming is great, it shows what kind of adversary she's going to be going forward. But wow, my own throat hurts every time she talks.

 

Min and Mat's dialogue was weird this episode. It's like they took a single conversation that was in one scene, and split it up into multiple scenes with no lead-in.

 

Mat is my fave though. His fight vs. Galad and Gawyn was awesome. 😎

 

And we have Faile too, now. Apart from the mullet hair, she looks pretty similar to how I'd imagined her.

 

Does anyone else get occasional whiplash with the amount of different accents in a single scene though? I like that people from different regions have different accents, but sometimes I find it a bit hard to follow.

 

All up though, I'm actually excited to see what else this season has in store. I definitely wasn't saying that after three episodes of the previous seasons! 😅

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As someone who moved from Los Angeles to Yorkshire, I can attest to there being loads of accents from relatively close areas that are shockingly different.  I do think it adds to immersion.  I particularly liked when Liandrin reverted to what I assumed was her "hometown " accent in Tanchico.

 

They totally wrecked shop on that wedding too

[Windigo]

  On 3/15/2025 at 2:29 AM, Sabio said:

They haven't when the Aes Sedai died the warder would basically go into a suicide rage, unless their bond is set to pass to someone else upon the Aes Sedai's death.  in the series it seems more of a slow they lose the will to live.  

 

You would basically have to make a weave for each person in the room, and plant it in their head.  

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I thought that Steppin attacking Logain was pretty much warders rage, and only by watching him and with the help of calming herbs was he on a slow suicide watch. 

[Jaysen Gore]

Episode 3  thoughts

- While I did like the cold open, and the scheming, I hate that they revealed Gaebril in this fashion. It kills the terror discovery for the audience along with Elayne. I'm fine with the Gray Man changes (after all - no Aginor) Mostly WIN. 

 

- I love the wedding destruction by the BA sisters, except that it is too brazen; they will stand out too much in the community to have that kind of mass murder done. It would draw a lot of attention. Likely the necessary kind without Juilin to find them, but still...Even

 

- I so wish there had been more witnesses for Mat and the boys besides Nynaeve, but we got it, and it was really well choreographed, and I liked the prefight mental prep from Mat. Kudos to all. Big WIN

 

- Mat and Min making up, on the boat to Tanchico, and he's gonna swing. so while one of my favourite Mat moments are being broken (more on that in a second), the big points are being brought back in. WIN

 

- Lan and Melhindra. Nervous about this, especially with the Ring of the Malkieri kings handed over earlier. I expect this is going to turn the "Dark One's own luck" moment into one of a spurned lover.  And if they give Lan the blanket toss, that will be a long way out of character. Not win

 

- we've had 7 of the 8 Forsaken namechecked, with the 8th being obvious (tune in next week?) and with Taim on the board, we know the end game of the major villains. Also love Nae'blis chat, since that means the DO is still a player in their games. WIN

 

- oh boy, where to begin on Zarine Bashere. We got the Mandarb joke - though without the horse - and the new name (though we never got Min's prophecy, so I don't know if Berelain exists). But the main thing for me is in my head, Faile was an immature child who ran away as a Hunter as a lark, who had to grow up to be worthy of being a queen. This woman is not that - this woman is adult, world weary with hard edges, and professionalism. So we'll get sparks with Perrin, but it's possible we just lost her character arc. So we'll see