Lets talk about The Consolidation =)

[JenniferL]

Right. If you copy a thread onto an offsite archive, that's fine. We know we have a history of data loss and people have gotten paranoid. Even though its in the past, I know better than to promise that the boards will never ever go down again. That usually makes them crash immediately just to spite me.

[Jhaenara]

Okay... Initially I felt a bit sad about losing the offsite boards (mainly my Ajah ones) because I loved it as our little hangout, but truthfully, we'll have the same thing at DM, so it's fine with me. 

 

Also, a lot of arguments I have seen with wanting to keep offsite boards have said things like "well, we just won't have Dragonmount stamped on there and that way we can still keep them... so take that, DM!"  Well, wtf?  Why are you even a member of DM if you would rather be offsite and couldn't care less if you're affiliated or not?  Start a new community if ya feel that way... :)

 

Also, for those that have said the Staff was not consulted...  I don't know what was said or presented, but for as long as I've been around DM (about 7+ years on and off) THIS CONSOLODATION WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.  It was never a vote... it was going to happen eventually.  They just never had the space or means to do it and now they do.  If me, a non Staff member has known this for all these years, I can't believe that Staff members are acting like they had no clue this would happen.

 

Anyway, that's all I got for now.  I hope everyone can keep their cool and have a mature discussion.  :)

[twinflower]

thank you for the answers Kath!

 

Part of what is distressing here is that I think many folks are still under the impression that this is something they have a choice about, and by making ulitmatums of leaving it will change it.  Since it is a given that the consolidation will happen, it would be much more constructive to discuss not if, but how.

 

As to this "dictatorship" attitude.  DM isn't a democracy.  It is owned by Jason, ran by Jason, the decisions are Jasons.  His choices are what he see's as best for DM.  As a community we are given the opportunity to participate and express concerns, to suggest improvements and to even argue.  If the company you choose to work for, decides to consolidate it's offices, do you tell the boss that they are a dictator because they didn't consult you about it?  Probably not, but you work towards making the best of it....same thing here I think.  If someone petitions for a new Org and is turned down..is that dictatorship or the admin making the best choice for the community?  

 

One thing you did clarify that I did not understand, is that the sub-domains are not a definite yet.  I misunderstood that they were.  Is there a possibility that they won't happen?

[Naeann]

One of my questions was already answered... about keeping the offsites for archive purposes because promising the moon (that this site wont ever go down) is something you have no way of controlling.

 

I've only been here almost two months and I'm in four orgs. I'm also registered at I think 5 offsites and have had no real problems keeping up.  I just focus on one or two mainly and just check in at others.  If a newbie can't handle that then they should start out with just one.  I'd have just as many bookmarks either way because it is simply easier to go to the drop down menu and automatically be at yellow ajah board than to scroll down and click thu three links to get to the child boards.

 

 

[Matalina]

When I joined and for years after wards we weren't allowed message boards offsite, it wasn't something that occurred until DM started having ISP issues and alot of crashes.  There is no way anyone can say that you won't lose anymore data.  Even your own offsite boards are prone to the same type of thing that dragonmount goes through.  A hacker can eat their data just as well as they can eat ours.  A hard drive can crash as easily as ours can.  Don't think just because it's offsite it's safer, DM just has a bad luck history with such problems.  It is a comon problem and unless you have a host of people standing on top of the thing 24/7 are you not going to lose information.

[Corki]

Also, for those that have said the Staff was not consulted...  I don't know what was said or presented, but for as long as I've been around DM (about 7+ years on and off) THIS CONSOLODATION WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.  It was never a vote... it was going to happen eventually.  They just never had the space or means to do it and now they do.  If me, a non Staff member has known this for all these years, I can't believe that Staff members are acting like they had no clue this would happen.

 

It's lucky you've been a member for 7 and a half years and knew about that. I've been a member for 3, and on staff for about 2. And during that time, nowhere can I recall this "consolidation" being mentioned anywhere. Not one little bit of information. Then it comes out of the blue. Therefore, of course I am going to be upset and annoyed at a decision I, and probably countless others, didn't have the slightest inclination about.

 

It's all down to communication. The fact we (well, definitely me) have had nothing about this "consolidation" until now, it irks and rankles a hell of a lot. Also, because we have to comply without being asked for views etc, this mess has arisen.

[JenniferL]

Whether or not subdomains will happen is outside of my control. There are alot of issues regarding setting them up, such as whether or not they will all share a database. We're still trying to finish these boards, so the Admins haven't even discussed setting up additional ones yet. It might be we decide its easier to just keep everyone on one set of boards. Ultimately, that call will be Jason's.

 

For the record, I don't like the subdomain idea. I think it still has us too spread out. But if that's what Jason decides to do, that's what we'll do.

[Cleopatra Narisse]

The transfer of data may be the wrong choice of word for what we usually do. But we copy and paste information from one place to another, regardless of what boards they are. We haven't run into problems doing that as of yet. If it's possible, we'll do some of that. We have our own stand alone boards for achiving. Yep we're paranoid. :p

 

Will it be possible for us to move data that way?

 

edit

 

I am beginning to think that TWinflower and I are connected. I had nearly the exact same writeup.

 

I am sorry you feel that way Corki. I know what it must be like in my 5+ years I cannot say I was ever quiet about board moves or changes. But what I came to realize was that I don't own DM. I come along for the fun. Our opinions do matter but that doesn't mean I'll change the course just because I put my foot down.

 

Being a Member means I will always be coming along. Not controling the issues. If we have potent ideas that Jason see's as workable, I know he'd consider it. Otherwise, you just... come along.

 

 

okay I am going to just ... read now. *tapes my mouth shut*

[JenniferL]

The transfer of data may be the wrong choice of word for what we usually do. But we copy and paste information from one place to another, regardless of what boards they are. We haven't run into problems doing that as of yet. If it's possible, we'll do some of that. We have our own stand alone boards for achiving. Yep we're paranoid. :p

 

Will it be possible for us to move data that way?

 

Yes, you can still copy and paste threads, if you feel its necessary.

[Niamh Sedai]

Personally, I was aware about the offsite thing though vaguely. When I first joined the WT, the WT offsite boards hosted at ageoflegends had just been shut down. Also, as WT Staff, Kath is always encouraging us to encourage our Ajahs to be more active onsite than offsite. Has this not been the same with the Orgs? I figured that once everything could be moved onsite it would though I admit, it happened far sooner than I anticipated.

[F Horn of Valere]

Though some sites like proboards are really good about having backup servers and people who check on it a lot...

 

Personally I think the new boards are a very good thing. I also think that the sub boards are a good thing. However... I don't think forcing the move back is necessarily a good thing. Why couldn't we at least have a voluntary move as a test drive? That way all the people with huge reservations at least will have a chance to see what it will be like, and then their objections will be based on fact instead of speculation.

 

It couldn't hurt... at the very least you'd be able to show the boards in action to those violently against them, aleviate some of their concerns a bit easier.

[Jhaenara]

Sorry then Corki, that you never heard anything about it.  I don't know, maybe it's me being a Blue and having Eyes and Ears...  :P  ;)

[JenniferL]

The current plan is do the move over gradually. Owen and I weren't told how to execute the move, just that it needed to be done. So we've set a goal of having all the Orgs and Divs moved by January 1st, 2008.  That should hopefully give us time to work out kinks like the subdomains, and let people who are iffy about the whole thing see how it works and get used to it.  We're definitely not shutting things down tomorrow.

[Alys Kinch]

Have you guys seriously had trouble with admins interfering with your boards here? I know we never have...

[twinflower]

again, thanks for the answers kath.  That was one of the reasons I wanted to know if the new DM boards could accomodate the offsite activity.  Sub-domains, as I understand them, seem to be the same as offsite boards and defeat the consolidation of community.

 

Horn, your thoughts are good, but realistically..we both know many Band members that would not participate at DM voluntarily and if they did only with many complaints.  The attitude would be negative and defeat any openess or willingness to make it work or give it a fair chance.  We see this even with the encouragement that the Band leader's have made to encourage, conjole and get people active on DM and off of the offsite.  I think that would be true in other Orgs that are against the consolidation.

[MsDanya]

I very much agree with Twinnie.

 

the activity here will increase alot, and I know thats been one of the Bands biggest problems. people there are so busy with the offside boards that they never bother to check in on the DM boards. even tho this is the place we all signed up to in the first place.

[F Horn of Valere]

I think they would be much much more open to the idea if they could see it in action first.

[Matalina]

Horn I think that there are plenty of volunteers to for the start of this.  I know of two who have already posted on the staff board.

[Mendorah]

Jade and I have heard on several occasions, some new members feeling quite lost when then step foot into DM and cannot fathom yet, another board that they must also become accustom to. Its a big and scary place. If they join other Orgs with their own offsite boards it just becomes too much.

 

 

Yeah, I don't know how the other heads find time to manage those offsite boards in addition to managing the Ajah boards here on DM.  That's one of many reasons I never opened any off site boards for the Gray Ajah.  So I completely understand how it would be hard for a newbie to keep up with mulitple boards.  Hehehe, sometimes I have a hard time keeping up with my DM orgs I'm involved in.  In fact, I feel kinda bad about my inactivity in the Illuminators Guild.

 

I'm actually really excited about the possibility of DM hosting a Gray Website.  That will be fantastic.  The piddly one I attempted on Bravenet is so ugly I tremble at the thought of anybody seeing it.

[JenniferL]

I try to be very hands off when it comes to managing the Orgs. The Only Org staff boards I ever post on, are those where I've been asked to do so by the Org Leader. I do lurk on every Org's onsite boards at least once a month, but that's more of a random check to see what's going on.  If I have an issue with an Org Leader, I take it up with them via email.  If someone has an issue with an Org, I tell them to take it up with the Org Leader.

 

I was an Org Leader LONG before I became an Admin. I remember wanting to just be left alone so I could do my job. I didn't want interference, so I try not to interfer. But there were definitely occasions when I had to do something I wasn't thrilled with and hadn't be consulted on. It's the nature of life.

[Alys Kinch]

I don't think all the boards will be moved over at once anyway. There is discussion of a time line. That should suffice for what you, Horn, are discussing, should it not?

[Niamh Sedai]

Say DM does go down. Would we be allowed to reopen our offsites boards as a temporary hang out?

[Cleopatra Narisse]

*rips the tape off*  :o

 

 

And how many Greens are in the Band? How many other Ajah members are in the Band? The answer is; Several. Does the opinion of the Leader carry over into the Members? Or is it that they might be caught up into a mass riot situation? I just want to know what to expect from the WT members.

 

 

[Alys Kinch]

Umm, Cleo, sometimes it is best to know when not to say anything. Sucking up to a leader isn't always worth it.

[Cleopatra Narisse]

What?