WoT Season 2 Episode 7: Daes Dae'Mar

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Mirefox said:

There are 4.9 million words in The Wheel of Time and not one of them was ever used by an Aes Sedai to conflate the two halves of the power.  There absolutely were sects in the Tower and there were plenty of beliefs around the One Power, but the distinction between Saidin and Saidar and the Dark One’s taint specifically on one half (not a taint created by man) was a fundamental as breathing.

Uh-huh. And how did Liandrin "conflate the two halves of the power?" She didn't. She expressed her bigoted opinion that men are filthy and that their use of the power is filthy. She did not blur the distinction between Saidin and Saidar. She did not say anything about the taint at all. 

[Agitel]

There's just little sloppy things like that (Lan having read it in a book) which feels so easily resolved by him being given some comment by Verin. S2 is a step up from S1 in many regards, but there are little things which just seem off.

[Mirefox]

10 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

 

If I'm being honest. I'm poking fun at the writers... of course. But they do get paid a lot and do know where they're going. So in reality, what I think they've set up is this:  A) the a'dam can only be 'healed' by being on a woman's neck ; B) Rand wants to come and rescue Egwene ; he's headed to Falme and Lanfear is with him, C) Elayne and Nynaeve have captured a Sul'dam. D) Egwene is going to kill Renna. 

What a costume designer said in interview carries no weight in my mind.

 

So actually, what I do think is likely to happen is something like: Rand can 'unheal' the a'dam with Saidin. 

Or Lanfear builds trust with Rand by removing it - it's just more knowledge lost to the Age of Legends. 

Or LAN has read something at some point that means he figured out how to take it off. 

Or the captured Sul'dam coughs up info that is suppose to be a secret, they actually can take the collars off. 

 

What I'm sure of is this. Egwene will have the collar off by the end of the episode and a collar will be on Renna. 100% guarunteed. And also, and I promise you I haven't seen the episode (how would I right?). I bet we get a line like, "Must be hard thinking your whole life you're a sul'dam, when actually you're a damane." ❤️‍🔥 Riight?

 Hahaha. 

I want a scene with Lan in the library with some spectacles on and having a Eureka moment.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Mirefox

[Agitel]

Just now, Mirefox said:

 Hahaha. 

I a scene with Lan in the library with some spectacles on and having a Eureka moment.

 

Take the scene from Fellowship with Gandalf researching in Gondor, but substitute Lan in.

[fra85uk]

Just now, Agitel said:

There's just little sloppy things like that (Lan having read it in a book) which feels so easily resolved by him being given some comment by Verin. S2 is a step up from S1 in many regards, but there are little things which just seem off.

Here a rare image of Lan re-discovering Travelling and other lost Talents:

 

[DreadLord31]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Uh-huh. And how did Liandrin "conflate the two halves of the power?" She didn't. She expressed her bigoted opinion that men are filthy and that their use of the power is filthy. She did not blur the distinction between Saidin and Saidar. She did not say anything about the taint at all. 

 

I again think that we book fans are giving waaay to much credit to the writers that they A) know and B) care about the lore of the books. Sure Rafe and Sarah N are in the writing room trying to correct and work with it. But you most definitely have script writers that are not book experts and do not care about the lore the books. They care about writing a compelling story. And in S1 they made a choice to center the whole season around the question "Who is the Dragon?" So they absolutely blurred lore lines. And they also, definitely screwed some stuff up that Sarah and Rafe didn't catch or realize the ramifications of until afterwards. Like - Nynaeve burning out in a circle - and Egwene cry healing her. Like - Loial being stabbed by the dagger. Like - an a'dam that is a fashion piece rather than a dog-collar ... 

Ect... 

[Mirefox]

5 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Take the scene from Fellowship with Gandalf researching in Gondor, but substitute Lan in.

How about a scene where Rand accidentally walks in on Lan, who quickly shoves something under his pillow.  Rand questions him and Lan reveals that he’s reading about Jain Farstrider and can’t get enough of his adventures.  Lan is outed as a book nerd and he and Loial start a book club.

[nsmallw]

11 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Do we have a runtime for S2E8? I don't know if those are revealed in advance. I really feel like 60 minutes can't do justice to the remaining plot points.

I mean it's logical to have the final episode be longer than the first seven. I'm betting it's 65-70 minutes actual running time, minus recap and short title sequence.  Wish it would be 90 minutes but not holding my breath. 

[fra85uk]

4 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

How about a scene where Rand accidentally walks in on Lan, who quickly shoves something under his pillow.  Rand questions him and Lan reveals that he’s reading about Jain Farstrider and can’t get enough of his adventures.  Lan is outed as a book nerd and he and Loial start a book club.

 

And then Jain Farstrider gets adapted in some travelling theatre by a Cairhenese playwriter known as Rafim Judchim but...but it is so different from the book!

[Elder_Haman]

14 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

 

I again think that we book fans are giving waaay to much credit to the writers that they A) know and B) care about the lore of the books. Sure Rafe and Sarah N are in the writing room trying to correct and work with it. But you most definitely have script writers that are not book experts and do not care about the lore the books. They care about writing a compelling story. And in S1 they made a choice to center the whole season around the question "Who is the Dragon?" So they absolutely blurred lore lines. And they also, definitely screwed some stuff up that Sarah and Rafe didn't catch or realize the ramifications of until afterwards. Like - Nynaeve burning out in a circle - and Egwene cry healing her. Like - Loial being stabbed by the dagger. Like - an a'dam that is a fashion piece rather than a dog-collar ... 

Ect... 

That doesn't address the issue about Liandrin's statement though.

[MarcusM]

1 hour ago, Guire said:

Just want to point out that seamen valda is an amazing autocorrect.  I am in full snark mode today and the world keeps refilling my cup.

Ahh yes, I thought it was strange of you to call him that. I don't have the books with me atm by I am pretty sure his name was Semen Valda.

[MarcusM]

1 hour ago, Mirefox said:

Sometimes I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the writers' room.  I'd love to hear the conversation around Mat.  I imagine it would be something like this:

 

A: "Ok, team, we need to get Mat to Falme."

B: "We do?  Didn't we just spend last episode having him say he'll go and then giving him a reason not to?"

A: "Yes, but now we need him there."

B: "Why?"

A: "It's in the books."

B: "Oh, so lets get him there the way he went in the books."

A: "Can't do that.  Forget about the books."

B: "But you just said..."

A: "Not now, dammit, we need to figure this out."

B: "Ok, well how far is it?"

A: "About 1500 Miles."

B: "..."

B: "Well, we could give him a motivation; something to chase.  The dagger, maybe?  Or the horn?"

A: "The what?  Oh yeah, I forgot about those.  No, that's too much work."

B: "Jerry over there did some good work on Episodes 5 and 6.  Maybe he has an idea?"

A: "Jerry, pitch me something."
J: "Are you ready for this?  We could hit him on the head, then cut to him in Tear."

A: "Perfect.  Jerry, you really are a wunderkind."

 

 

 

Someone YouTuber here, PLEASE PLEASE (!) do a YouTube-sketch on this!

[Samt]

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

Why is it so difficult for some to accept that, in the lore of the show, the collars cannot be removed without first kilking the people wearing them?

Because we know that Egwene will get out of the collar and having her die and come back is a terrible thing to do to the lore.  They even acknowledged that Nynaeve's resurrection in S1E8 was a mistake.  Why would they double down on allowing the good guys to resurrect each other?  

 

This is just another example of a problem that they created for themselves because they didn't care to understand the books enough to foresee that it would be a problem.  

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

And?

 

That's the point. The damane don't need to be able to change their clothing.

errr....

do you think they can live for centuries always keeping the same dress? do you think it would be physically possible?

even if the dress could somehow remain whole, do you have an idea what kind of healt problem it could cause? damane may be animals, but they are expensive ones. historically, expensive animals were often treated better than people, at least as far as ensuring they'd survive

how did they even put the grey damane dress on ryma since they put the collar on her while she was dressed differently?

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Uh-huh. And how did Liandrin "conflate the two halves of the power?" She didn't. She expressed her bigoted opinion that men are filthy and that their use of the power is filthy. She did not blur the distinction between Saidin and Saidar. She did not say anything about the taint at all. 

And while I don't actually believe my next statement but what Liandrin says could easily be attributed to "Men are the reason that the world is broken between that and just going insane is the reason normal people don't trust female Aes Sedai like they should."

[Agitel]

I agree the collar design is stupid for exactly the practical purposes cited, I imagine that was far from their mind when they wanted something more visually striking. I wonder if dresses could be unlaced and pulled down, then a clean dress pulled up under the collar.

 

Not trying to be voyeuresque, lol. Just wondering if there is a logistical way it could work.

[VooDooNut]

How do we know the a'dam is fixed in form? Perhaps it has a feature to contract the iron-man portion whenever they are allowed to clean themselves. Am I forgetting some obvious contradiction here?

[Sabio]

IMO one of the weakest episodes of the season.  I don't mind some changes from the books, but this had way too many.  Honestly they should had kept Rand's meeting with the Amirlyn the same, it would have made more sense.  Instead of Siuan doing the exact opposite and wanting him caged and shielded.  

 

Did I miss something with Lanfears attack?  It was daylight when she was starting the fires yet it was night when the Aes Sedai were putting it out?  Did we miss a whole fight?  

 

Most the episode just seemed rushed and a mess.

 

For those wondering about Rand's training, in a past episode it was mentioned he was training with an old blademaster at the asylum place.  Rand or the guy mentioned Rand trying to sneak a sword in next visit.

 

I hate them having Rand have to go to Lanfear so many times asking for help.  Apparently Lanfear just sits about waiting for Rand to sleep?

 

I do like how Lanfear is clearly playing her own game, though since Moiraine has been shielded for so long I'm not sure why she hates Moiraine so much.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Sabio

[Agitel]

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

though since Moiraine has been shielded for so long I'm not sure why she hates Moiraine so much.

 

Lanfear does not like to share.

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Sabio said:

since Moiraine has been shielded for so long I'm not sure why she hates Moiraine so much.

Same reason she hates Egwene. She has Rand’s attention and respect. 

[DigificWriter]

1 hour ago, Samt said:

They even acknowledged that Nynaeve's resurrection in S1E8 was a mistake

 

1) Nynaeve didn't die

 

2) Resuscitation isn't resurrection 

 

3) The thing that they acknowledged as a mistake was the level of prosthetic makeup/CGI enhancement they used during the scene 

[DigificWriter]

24 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

they are allowed to clean themselves

 

The show demonstrated in this episode that the sul'dahm sponge-bathe their damane.

[Jaysen Gore]

21 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

The show demonstrated in this episode that the sul'dahm sponge-bathe their damane.

i bet this is only for newly captured damane, to ensure they don't take the opportunity of a big bucket of water and some time alone to free themselves from this turning of the wheel

[A Memory Of Why]

25 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

The show demonstrated in this episode that the sul'dahm sponge-bathe their damane.

 

That was some half assed sponging though, even the repressed whitecloaks did a better job of bathing. 

 

Regarding the Adam removal, I've read someone speculating the ring the Suldam wear which has a similar symbol to the Adams chest piece is used as a key to unlock the Adam.

[Samt]

47 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

1) Nynaeve didn't die

 

2) Resuscitation isn't resurrection 

 

3) The thing that they acknowledged as a mistake was the level of prosthetic makeup/CGI enhancement they used during the scene 

 

My point with Nynaeve in S1E8 is that the creators of the show have acknowledged that they didn't intend to show that death could be healed and that they understand that would be a bad change to make to the lore.  As such, I find it unlikely that they would change that now and show that Egwene can be healed from death.  Therefore, the only logical conclusion (assuming Egwene won't be permanently dead or collared) is that actually the collar can be removed without the damane dying. 

And if you can only remove the collar when the damane is dead, nearly dead with bad makeup and CGI doesn't count as dead.