WoT Season 2 Episode 7: Daes Dae'Mar

[Vartija]

8 minutes ago, Windigo said:

But this episode when Lan fakes out and leaves Logain after an implied promise of giving him the key, that made me angry at it, because if there is one thing Lan is at his core it is honorable. I could put up with a softer honorable Lan, but this really bugged me. 

Yeah this bugged me as well. I get he's pissed off about Stepin & Kerene, but that seemed a bit dishonourable on Lan's part. I wish they wouldn't force these characters into situations where they break their word so freely. I think in WoT world oaths and promises should be taken more seriously. 

[Windigo]

1 minute ago, mogi68 said:

 

Does your TV have an "HDMI Black Level" setting? I couldn't see anything in dark scenes and then I discovered that in the menu and now I can actually tell what's going on

No there are no separate HDMI settings, just standard brightness or contrast, and they just make it worse in other ways. 
This is not the only show that has issues, but I would say it is the worst. 
It is like all the shows that assume TV's are set up for sound better, and I can never hear anything over the backing sound track so need to use subtitles. 

[Agitel]

Whenever I go over someone's house I have the resist the urge to mess with their TV's display settings. Even just to poke around and troubleshoot.

[Mirefox]

14 minutes ago, Vartija said:

Yeah this bugged me as well. I get he's pissed off about Stepin & Kerene, but that seemed a bit dishonourable on Lan's part. I wish they wouldn't force these characters into situations where they break their word so freely. I think in WoT world oaths and promises should be taken more seriously. 

It is especially troubling because he turns around and gives a temporary truce to a FORSAKEN!    Characterization is so inconsistent across the board for most of these characters.

[Mirefox]

The whole saidin/saidar thing just keeps getting worse and shows how the writing in this show has been consistently bad from the start.  There have been multiple times up to this point where explaining the gendered difference with the One Power would have explained much, but the writers seemed to be actively avoiding it; Landrin, telling a man that he taints the one power when he uses it, Moiraine explaining the OP to Eggy, and of all places it would have been prefect, the scene where Rand asks Moiraine to teach him and she gives some ridiculous answer rather than simply saying she can't because saidin and saidar are different.  We've been confused as to who can see what weaves as well.  Then, suddenly, because it solves a problem, we have talk about "male weaves."  15 episodes of obfuscation and now we're talking about male weaves so that Rand can "heal" Moiraine 10 minutes later.  It almost feels retconned in.

[SinisterDeath]

9 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Whenever I go over someone's house I have the resist the urge to mess with their TV's display settings. Even just to poke around and troubleshoot.

You resist? I just grab the remote and start poking around in the settings...

[Vartija]

I agree with the general sentiment regarding the Gitara foretelling. I thought the scene felt off and decidedly unimpressive. Like something they hastily put together as an afterthought. The book version was just so much more captivating (or at least I imagined it so). In hindsight, I'm not really sure why this scene was needed at all at this point of the story. Perhaps the purpose was more to remind us of Moiraine's & Siuan's friendship? 

 

Also confused by the lack of snow around Tar Valon. All of this should have taken place in winter iirc. Shouldn't have been difficult so cgi some snow on the ground. In fact I think it would have made for a stunning visual. 

 

[Guire]

41 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

You resist? I just grab the remote and start poking around in the settings...

The light bless you for doing so.

[Mirefox]

7 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I agree with the general sentiment regarding the Gitara foretelling. I thought the scene felt off and decidedly unimpressive. Like something they hastily put together as an afterthought. The book version was just so much more captivating (or at least I imagined it so). In hindsight, I'm not really sure why this scene was needed at all at this point of the story. Perhaps the purpose was more to remind us of Moiraine's & Siuan's friendship? 

 

Also confused by the lack of snow around Tar Valon. All of this should have taken place in winter iirc. Shouldn't have been difficult so cgi some snow on the ground. In fact I think it would have made for a stunning visual. 

 

It has been a while since I read New Spring, but wasn't the then-sitting Amyrlin present as well?  It is subtle, but the way it was presented in the books wasn't as some secret between two Aes Sedai but as a secret shared with the Amyrlin who bestows upon them the heaviest duty that could be asked.

[Guire]

2 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I agree with the general sentiment regarding the Gitara foretelling. I thought the scene felt off and decidedly unimpressive. Like something they hastily put together as an afterthought. The book version was just so much more captivating (or at least I imagined it so). In hindsight, I'm not really sure why this scene was needed at all at this point of the story. Perhaps the purpose was more to remind us of Moiraine's & Siuan's friendship? 

 

Also confused by the lack of snow around Tar Valon. All of this should have taken place in winter iirc. Shouldn't have been difficult so cgi some snow on the ground. In fact I think it would have made for a stunning visual. 

 

So I was a soldier long long ago.  One of my digs at show all along has been that OG RJ wrote series from a soldiers perspective, even if many readers never caught it.  He used weather in books often to show sort of the health of the world, as sort of a background sountrack, or as a real world obstacle.  Jordan also used miscommunication or lack of ability to communicate well as parts of story.  

 

Our show writers have probably never been farmers, construction workers, or soldiers.  So for writers who have probably spent most of their adult lives indoors or in Southern California like environments always on internet or with cell phones, modernizing story also means ignoring weather and instant communication.  I do expect brush fire haze or mud slides at some point.

[Guire]

5 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

It has been a while since I read New Spring, but wasn't the then-sitting Amyrlin present as well?  It is subtle, but the way it was presented in the books wasn't as some secret between two Aes Sedai but as a secret shared with the Amyrlin who bestows upon them the heaviest duty that could be asked.

She was and got murdered  putting responsibility on original wonder girls to save the world right out of college.  Show wonder girls were middle age wonder women dreaming of securing safe govt jobs so they could retire early to Florida and start a fishing guide service. that is some top tier aspirational feminism right there.

[Samt]

10 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

It has been a while since I read New Spring, but wasn't the then-sitting Amyrlin present as well?  It is subtle, but the way it was presented in the books wasn't as some secret between two Aes Sedai but as a secret shared with the Amyrlin who bestows upon them the heaviest duty that could be asked.

She wasn't just present.  She was the intended audience.  Siuan and Moiraine were only there incidentally because they were waiting on the Amyrlin.  The BA then murders everyone who they think knows about the prophecy.  Siuan and Moiraine survive because the BA doesn't pay attention to the fact that two accepted were there.  

[Samt]

2 minutes ago, Guire said:

She was and got murdered  putting responsibility on original wonder girls to save the world right out of college.  Show wonder girls were middle age wonder women dreaming of securing safe govt jobs so they could retire early to Florida and start a fishing guide service. that is some top tier aspirational feminism right there.

Joking aside, I liked Moiraine a lot more after reading New Spring.  It really explains who she is, what she has given up, and how important she actually is to helping the light win.  I don't think the show has done her justice in that regard inspite of her expanded role.

[SinisterDeath]

22 minutes ago, Guire said:

The light bless you for doing so.

Hey, I'm not going to sit around and watch a TV that's sitting there zoomed in, cutting off half the picture because someone doesn't know how to put it on Full Screen...

[Guire]

2 minutes ago, Samt said:

She wasn't just present.  She was the intended audience.  Siuan and Moiraine were only there incidentally because they were waiting on the Amyrlin.  The BA then murders everyone who they think knows about the prophecy.  Siuan and Moiraine survive because the BA doesn't pay attention to the fact that two accepted were there.  

Thus Siuan and Moraine taking on task at young age is a real character reveal about both of them.  They abandon previous dreams, romances, and comforts to accept this mission to save world.  It defines them in books and foreshadows role of EF5. 

[Agitel]

Motion smoothing?! Vivid picture settings?! Color saturation set to cool?! Give me that remote now.

[DigificWriter]

5 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

When you’re wrong, you’re wrong. And you should own it.

 

There's no fault to admit to here.

 

5 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

how do you take it off

 

By killing the damane who's wearing it.

 

5 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

and then, one of them, I’m thinking Nynaeve has to wear the collar to get in.

 

Even if they were somehow able to get their hands on a second a'dam, it's not something you can just put on and take off, as it can only be removed if the damane wearing it is dead.

[Elder_Haman]

5 minutes ago, Guire said:

Jordan also used miscommunication or lack of ability to communicate well as parts of story.

I feel like the writers are doing well on this. And it's been done in the context of the Moiraine, Siuan, Lan, Alanna arc that most people seem to dislike.

 

So: Moiraine has kept her secret task of finding the Dragon secret from everyone but Siuan and Lan. She was certain that her plan to take the Dragon to the Eye was the right one. She was horribly wrong and got humbled in the process. Wounded pride and the misguided notion that she had to do it alone causes her to keep her intentions secret from everyone. She never tells Siuan that she was stilled/shielded.

 

Lan: Doesn't understand what is happening, but recognizes instinctually that it isn't adding up. Moiraine isn't acting right if she'd been stilled. She's suddenly stopped trusting the two people that she has confided in across the years. He doesn't know for certain what to do about it and flounders.

 

Siuan: Already feels betrayed by Moiraine not telling her about the stilling/shielding. Recognizes that she and Moiraine miscalculated badly at the Eye. Now doesn't trust herself and flops to the opposite side of the fence, falling back on Tower law. Then, instead of really talking things through, Moiraine goes quiet and pouty. Then she breaks Rand out of his cell during an attack by the Forsaken. When she confronts Moiraine, suddenly her powers are back. Certainly Siuan thinks that Moiraine is Black at this point.

 

Alanna: Understands that both Moiraine and Lan are acting weird. Finds a Dark Prophecy in Lan's saddlebags and recognizes that Lan lied to her about why he needed to see Siuan. Why is this happening? Is Lan a darkfriend? She initiates a confrontation and forces a decision. (Alanna is smart - 3 on 1 if Lan is a baddy). 

 

All of this is similar to the poor communication that RJ weaves throughout WoT. And it's having the exact same effect on the audience - frustration and annoyance - that it did when we were reading the books. So, mission accomplished!! 

[Agitel]

In the books it's just a collar and doesn't expand into a shoulder piece, and has a latch that the damane can't touch but which another not wearing a collar who knows what to look for can unclasp. The show... Well, Egwene isn't going to be killed, so there probably is some other trick that the sul'dam can reveal. Though the collar they have was probably obtained from the damane dying.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Agitel

[Rhaze]

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

Whenever I go over someone's house I have the resist the urge to mess with their TV's display settings. Even just to poke around and troubleshoot.

 I kicked a friend out of my house for doing such a thing to my tv. At a GoT watch party, we were cooking out before the show came on and I walk in to see him with my remote changing my settings...

 

 wait a sec.. I spent a solid week going through every setting. I used a config disc, and looked up numerous configurations people used online and set several different options to switch between them... and then some dude just picks up my remote and starts setting my tv to his eyesight? I was HOT and not just from the grill.

[DigificWriter]

3 minutes ago, Agitel said:

The show... Well, Egwene isn't going to be killed

 

Unless she briefly dies before being resuscitated.

[Rhaze]

9 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

There's no fault to admit to here.

 

 

By killing the damane who's wearing it.

 

 

Even if they were somehow able to get their hands on a second a'dam, it's not something you can just put on and take off, as it can only be removed if the damane wearing it is dead.

 I think both Nynaeve and Elayne will dress as suldam. The suldam they captured will be Nynaeve's damane, They go in, Elayne puts Egwene's arm thing and walks her out as if Egwene was her damane. Then they can figure out how to get the collar off in their own time.

[DigificWriter]

Just now, Rhaze said:

 I think both Nynaeve and Elayne will dress as suldam. The suldam they captured will be Nynaeve's damane, They go in, Elayne puts Egwene's arm thing and walks her out as if Egwene was her damane. Then they can figure out how to get the collar off in their own time.

 

Aside from briefly killing and then reasuscitating her (Egwene), that really is the  only viable rescue option.

[Rhaze]

1 hour ago, Mirefox said:

Some notes as I watch:

 

-Both Moiraine and Susan were planning on retiring and living in a fisherman’s hut together?  Stupid.

 

-Rand had been training.  Why were we never shown it?  The showrunners insisted that we needed a Steppin episode because they need to “show, not tell” but with Rand he just miraculously has sword training.

 

-Hey, look, yet another “knock a character out to relocate them” trick.  This time, to get Mat to Falme instantly.  Such lazy writing.

 

-Damane pacifiers are the single stupidest-looking costume design in this series.  

 

-Bain and Chiad look like Aiel.  Why doesn’t Avi?

 

-Mat’s memories better not come from freaking Forsaken tea.  I like the nod to him hanging, though.

 

-The Moiraine stilling thing was handled clumsily from start to finish.

 

-Siuan accused Moiraine of lying!  She outright called Moiraine black ajah.

 

l

 yeah the tea is my biggest issue with this episode...

 

 oh yeah back in my day we used to have this tea in every corner store. Friday nights were always a blast!

[Rhaze]

1 minute ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Aside from briefly killing and then reasuscitating her (Egwene), that really is the  only viable rescue option.

 I have yet to see anything about this series where something has to be viable. Writers will give her some forsaken tea and all will be well.