WoT Season 2 Episode 5: Damane

[Jaysen Gore]

9 hours ago, Chivalry said:

Have we seen any gateways yet? I really don't remember.

 

Lanfear spent enough time at the cabin that she could have opened a gateway from there. But the problem would be she doesn't know where Rand / Moiraine are going. As someone not fond of horses, she's obviously not an experienced tracker, and fell for the simple "send the horses on without the riders" ruse that an experienced tracker / sniffer would have noticed due to the depth of the horses hoofprints.

 

I've also seen skimming mentioned; again, without knowing where Rand / Moiraine are going, she isn't able to skim to a place they will be.  And since skimming is done outside the real world, she would again lose their trail.

 

so, she was left with no choice to mount up and follow them

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

also, in the books rand distrusted her with no real reason, just because "aes sedai bad" and "two rivers stubborn", and that felt stupid. at least the accident with the ferry was intentionally meant to give rand better reasons for his mistrust, and this episode probably also has a similar function.

I think actually an argument can made the other way for the books. On the day before Winternight, the EF boys are have only ever heard stories where the Aes Sedai are the villains. That the Dragon tried to free the Dark One, and the Aes Sedai broke the world, and are so evil that good minded people who walk in the Light won't even talk about them. In many ways it is amazing that book Rand is not more distrustful.

 

But yes, in the show they don't have same kind of back-drop so showing a bit of Aes Sedai ruthlessness is fairly clever, as it also raises the stakes with the Black Ajah and the Forsaken, if one of the good guys, bound by the three oaths is this tough, what will it say about them?  

[NetNightmare]

10 hours ago, Mailman said:

Another terrible episode.

 

The worst part the absolutely hilarious scene when the girls get dropped off to the Seachan.

 

Soldiers march away from Seachan take the girls from the horses then drop them at the side then march all the way back to the patrol. WTF. Why not keep the prisoners with you.

Damane fail to realize that she has removed the shields and freed the girls using the power.

Can't imagine Ishmael will be thrilled when he finds out that Liandrin released them.

Then what appears to be a pathetic chase scene.

Another hilarious palanquin.

 

Fight scene with Perrin and Avi was terrible so many quick cuts so dark. A real let down when the blood snow was one of the better components of the first season. Did appear at one point that the white cloaks could have just struck Perrin down but did not.

 

Season continues to lurch from poor to crap to dumpster fire.

 

 

I would also like to add the fact that in Season 01 Episode 6 Loial states specifically that horses wont survive the ways (change from the book), but then Liandrim bring horses into the ways to dispatch the unconscious girls (another change from the books).

 

Poor poor writing

[DaddyFinn]

32 minutes ago, NetNightmare said:

Poor poor writing

Not necessarily. Might be a WAFO. I hope it's not a "retcon" from S1.

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, NetNightmare said:

I would also like to add the fact that in Season 01 Episode 6 Loial states specifically that horses wont survive the ways (change from the book), but then Liandrim bring horses into the ways to dispatch the unconscious girls (another change from the books).

 

Poor poor writing

Might just be that Liandrin doesn't care about the horses well being.

[Cipher]

Mostly a good episode.

The good:

-Making Lanfear sinister and scary.

-Moiraine and her family interactions brings depth to her character we lacked in the books.

-Sherlock Verin

-Using Jordan’s template to introduce Aviendha worked great.  Take more from Jordan less from trendy cultural issues.

-Dancing the spears

-Having Bornhald as a formidable fighter is good, but bad judgement?  If he fights with his men like a pack they should win.

-Nynaeve having help to rescue Egwene is good.  She was a ninja in the books in Falme.

-Ending scene is interesting.
 

The Bad:

Agree with the points made by

@Mirefox 

-Liandrin and the girls:

Where is the waygate?  Maybe Liandrin can make them invisible.  I guess Liandrin is now strong enough to hold 3 shields simultaneously on 3 of the most powerful saidar channelers in hundreds of years. When multiple Aes Sedai couldn’t hold one shield on Logain.

-Aviendha offering herself sexually to Perrin…..no, just no.  I swear babies must  grow in the cabbage patch in Wheel of Rafe.

-The warder hitting Elayne and Nynaeve against a brick wall to knock them out and then carry them somewhere. Don’t worry girls it is only a minor concussion. Seanchan are hard core law keepers no way they just let a dude carry incapacitated young women through town.

-Rand is a green adenturer who isn’t good at anything and not been trained in anything. We don’t even know if he is godly with the bow. “Rand isn’t the hero.”

[Agitel]

I talked briefly with my dad yesterday about the show. He introduced me to WOT over 20 years ago. But he's a more casual reader. He's only read the series once. Last season he was pretty happy talking about how it was just like the books. And on top of that he's really not very critical at all (something I noticed well before the WOT show). It's not just that at all). He liked pretty much everything. He's not a turbo-dork like me reading the series multiple times and joining forums to discuss it. I think he's more of the demographic the show is aiming for (in addition to bringing in new people).

 

He was not happy with episode five. In particular, he is really put off by the whole Rand/Selene arc. I think the showrunners need to be wary about losing that read-thr-series-once crowd. Last season it sounded like they were aiming to please them and not us dorks, but to be frank, being the dork I am means I've been discussing this for a few years now, rationalizing the changes, digging into the bigger picture of it all, etc... The casual fans are going to be okay with a ton, but huge deviations like that could shake them.

 

And this is not me finding a way to pseudo gripe about Rand and Selene. Just an observation and reflection on that.

 

I suspect the Rand/Selene arc for this season will be pretty much wrapped up in the next episode.

[EmreY]

I'll be contrary and say that I didn't like Episode 5 as much as previous ones.  I liked most individual scenes - Avidendha in particular, Lanfear & Ishamael, Verin, etc - but the whole, I don't know, rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I am, however, having great fun with the Lanfear stanning. 🙂

[Storeebooq]

5 hours ago, Cipher said:

Mostly a good episode.

The good:

-Making Lanfear sinister and scary.

-Moiraine and her family interactions brings depth to her character we lacked in the books.

-Sherlock Verin

-Using Jordan’s template to introduce Aviendha worked great.  Take more from Jordan less from trendy cultural issues.

-Dancing the spears

-Having Bornhald as a formidable fighter is good, but bad judgement?  If he fights with his men like a pack they should win.

-Nynaeve having help to rescue Egwene is good.  She was a ninja in the books in Falme.

-Ending scene is interesting.
 

The Bad:

Agree with the points made by

@Mirefox 

-Liandrin and the girls:

Where is the waygate?  Maybe Liandrin can make them invisible.  I guess Liandrin is now strong enough to hold 3 shields simultaneously on 3 of the most powerful saidar channelers in hundreds of years. When multiple Aes Sedai couldn’t hold one shield on Logain.

-Aviendha offering herself sexually to Perrin…..no, just no.  I swear babies must  grow in the cabbage patch in Wheel of Rafe.

-The warder hitting Elayne and Nynaeve against a brick wall to knock them out and then carry them somewhere. Don’t worry girls it is only a minor concussion. Seanchan are hard core law keepers no way they just let a dude carry incapacitated young women through town.

-Rand is a green adenturer who isn’t good at anything and not been trained in anything. We don’t even know if he is godly with the bow. “Rand isn’t the hero.”

Again I think it will be revealed later that Liandrin had a lot of help, maybe even in placing and tying off shields. Otherwise, I agree, it's been a sttreeettcch that she could have gotten them to and through the waygate so easily.  To me, that was the weakest link in the episode. 

 

On the girls getting their heads hit, well it's in line with the books. How many times did the wondergirls get knocked out from head trauma? 🤪 At least this time it was done by a Warder to a Yellow Ajah, who I presume healed them (I hope!). 

 

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, Storeebooq said:

Again I think it will be revealed later that Liandrin had a lot of help, maybe even in placing and tying off shields. Otherwise, I agree, it's been a sttreeettcch that she could have gotten them to and through the waygate so easily.  To me, that was the weakest link in the episode. 

 

On the girls getting their heads hit, well it's in line with the books. How many times did the wondergirls get knocked out from head trauma? 🤪 At least this time it was done by a Warder to a Yellow Ajah, who I presume healed them (I hope!). 

 

How good could the wondergirls be in breaking shields? Seems like they also spent a lot of time unconscious

[NetNightmare]

13 hours ago, Skipp said:

Might just be that Liandrin doesn't care about the horses well being.

well, may as it be, horse get out of the ways unscated for liadrin, which basically means that either Loial is more useless that it is in the show (since they brought him just because he knew the way) or either Loial is a Liar (which would be really troubling)

[Ralph]

or Liandrin had some protection like she had from Machin Shin

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

I must be remembering this wrong, but was the Tar Valon Waygate not in the grove that was in the Tower grounds? So even Novices could reach it without breaking the rules? I am misremembering this aren't I?

[notpropaganda73]

I enjoyed the episode overall but just to address one of the criticisms - isn't it obvious that Aviendha was absolutely taking the piss out of Perrin? And even when she said something like "But I would not be opposed" or something after laughing, isn't that just very on-brand for Aiel, especially Maidens? 

 

I dunno, didn't feel out of kilter for me and didn't feel like a big change from character behaviour or anything that will have impact down the line to be quite honest. I'll miss Gaul and Perrin's introduction but even if we never see Gaul, that would be an adaptation move I totally understand considering the material they have to get through. 

[Scarloc99]

19 hours ago, NetNightmare said:

I would also like to add the fact that in Season 01 Episode 6 Loial states specifically that horses wont survive the ways (change from the book), but then Liandrim bring horses into the ways to dispatch the unconscious girls (another change from the books).

 

Poor poor writing

I mean Loial might have simply meant that Horses will get scared and run off if Machin Shin comes afte them, or Machin Shin just kills horses really quickly because it can't "play with their fears" (unless it is just putting the thought of a glue factory in a horses mind). Liandrin probably doesn't care if she risks the horses dying while on her way vs travelling with several unconscious tied up people. 

That is a way of seeing round this writing discrepancy, of course i could just be finding a way to plug a writing hole. 

[Scarloc99]

12 hours ago, Cipher said:

Mostly a good episode.

The good:

-Making Lanfear sinister and scary.

-Moiraine and her family interactions brings depth to her character we lacked in the books.

-Sherlock Verin

-Using Jordan’s template to introduce Aviendha worked great.  Take more from Jordan less from trendy cultural issues.

-Dancing the spears

-Having Bornhald as a formidable fighter is good, but bad judgement?  If he fights with his men like a pack they should win.

-Nynaeve having help to rescue Egwene is good.  She was a ninja in the books in Falme.

-Ending scene is interesting.
 

The Bad:

Agree with the points made by

@Mirefox 

-Liandrin and the girls:

Where is the waygate?  Maybe Liandrin can make them invisible.  I guess Liandrin is now strong enough to hold 3 shields simultaneously on 3 of the most powerful saidar channelers in hundreds of years. When multiple Aes Sedai couldn’t hold one shield on Logain.

-Aviendha offering herself sexually to Perrin…..no, just no.  I swear babies must  grow in the cabbage patch in Wheel of Rafe.

-The warder hitting Elayne and Nynaeve against a brick wall to knock them out and then carry them somewhere. Don’t worry girls it is only a minor concussion. Seanchan are hard core law keepers no way they just let a dude carry incapacitated young women through town.

-Rand is a green adenturer who isn’t good at anything and not been trained in anything. We don’t even know if he is godly with the bow. “Rand isn’t the hero.”

Everyone is calling her Sherlock Verin I am in 2 inds, either she is already of the Black (I hope) in which case this is more Verin helping other people be Sherlock by making sure she points them in the right direction as indirectly as possible. 

Alternativley her Sherlocking is going to get her in alot of trouble, which I hope is not the case as I don't like a Verin who is black only for a few months. 

Also Avi's comments to Perrin where very very very close to the books. The Aiel loved embarrassing the wetlanders prudishnous, the fact she smiles and is obviously teasing him shows that this is not serious but that famous Aiel sense of humour that no one else gets.  

No Rand is not the hero, he wasn't really the hero at this point in the books, he was a boy who got very very lucky, even the fight in the end of book 2 was won through luck, but, moiraine is handing him the reins and giving him control by letting him make his own choices. 

Elayne and Nyn are constantly walking into traps in the books, a warder knocking them both out is not an issue and given he is warde to a yellow any damage done in the process of saving them can be quickly undone. He is also a Warder, so I think he knows the best way to knock someone out "safely". 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, NetNightmare said:

well, may as it be, horse get out of the ways unscated for liadrin, which basically means that either Loial is more useless that it is in the show (since they brought him just because he knew the way) or either Loial is a Liar (which would be really troubling)

I mean also, Horses in the books have pretty much impenetrable plot armour until

Spoiler

Bela in the last battle 

How many times does Lan ride his horse into the middle of a bunch of fades and trollocs under the onslaught of Dreadlords wielding the one power, watching his fellow soldiers die around him only to see his horse trotting out unscathed almost giving the forces of dark the finger. I have often felt the horses of Randland would have done a much better job on their own beating the forces if the dark without all those pesky humans getting in the way 🙂 

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I must be remembering this wrong, but was the Tar Valon Waygate not in the grove that was in the Tower grounds? So even Novices could reach it without breaking the rules? I am misremembering this aren't I?

In the show it was outside of the city, in episode 7 you see Moiraine take the party some distance away from the white tower to use it. 

[king of nowhere]

13 hours ago, Cipher said:

 I guess Liandrin is now strong enough to hold 3 shields simultaneously on 3 of the most powerful saidar channelers in hundreds of years. When multiple Aes Sedai couldn’t hold one shield on Logain.

while I also didn't enjoy that part, it can be explained.

I mean, the previous times they were in the ways, the slightest bit of channeling attracted the black wind. would nynaeve try to channel in those conditions?

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I enjoyed the episode overall but just to address one of the criticisms - isn't it obvious that Aviendha was absolutely taking the piss out of Perrin? And even when she said something like "But I would not be opposed" or something after laughing, isn't that just very on-brand for Aiel, especially Maidens?

indeed. and in any case, maidens of the spears were very sexually assertive in the books, maidens kisses, anyone? I agree it's not much like aviendha, she's shyer than most, but it fits very well with aiel culture.

[DaddyFinn]

3 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I enjoyed the episode overall but just to address one of the criticisms - isn't it obvious that Aviendha was absolutely taking the piss out of Perrin? And even when she said something like "But I would not be opposed" or something after laughing, isn't that just very on-brand for Aiel, especially Maidens? 

 

I dunno, didn't feel out of kilter for me and didn't feel like a big change from character behaviour or anything that will have impact down the line to be quite honest. I'll miss Gaul and Perrin's introduction but even if we never see Gaul, that would be an adaptation move I totally understand considering the material they have to get through. 

Avi is supposed to be the fair, shy, virgin Maiden that saves herself to Rand /s

[SinisterDeath]

5 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I must be remembering this wrong, but was the Tar Valon Waygate not in the grove that was in the Tower grounds? So even Novices could reach it without breaking the rules? I am misremembering this aren't I?

Waygates were always outside of Groves, because they were creations of the one power.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

I agree it's not much like aviendha, she's shyer than most, but it fits very well with aiel culture.

29 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Avi is supposed to be the fair, shy, virgin Maiden that saves herself to Rand /s

Having just got through that section of the book not to long ago (again), I never took Avi to be shy. 

I took her as someone who didn't want to be forced into a relationship with a man because a bunch of old crones decided it was her duty to.

 

 

[nsmallw]

I was suprised that Loial didn't acknowledge Egwene when she was brought before the Seanchan..at least a gasp of surprise from him... I hope in ep 6 he gets a moment to speak to her unwatched or some contact. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Waygates were always outside of Groves, because they were creations of the one power.

But the Groves weren't Stedding (or am I missing something again?).

 

Anyway, given the Waygate is not on the island but close by in the show, there seems little need to have a Waygate in the Tower grounds, regardless of the book, which is good enough to scratch my itch. And I'll get to that point in the books again soon anyway.

[SinisterDeath]

5 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

But the Groves weren't Stedding (or am I missing something again?).

 

Anyway, given the Waygate is not on the island but close by in the show, there seems little need to have a Waygate in the Tower grounds, regardless of the book, which is good enough to scratch my itch. And I'll get to that point in the books again soon anyway.

Yep you're right.

I was conflating Groves as Steddings. Every stedding has a grove but not every stedding is a grove.

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Stedding