What are they doing to Canon?

[DigificWriter]

13 hours ago, Mailman said:

Season 2 really poo's on the canon.

 

This is an incorrect statement.

[Mirefox]

38 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

This is an incorrect statement.

This is an incorrect statement.

[Akmenos the bound]

On 9/1/2023 at 12:50 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

 

I may not personally be a fan of the novels, but there are a number of others who are fans (die-hard fans at that) who recognize and have accepted the TV series for the retelling that it is, and there's absolutely nothing disingenuous about that.

I’m in the camp that they are having to adapt 14 books into what appears to be at most 6-7 seasons.  The books are the ultimate even Tolkien would be proud of Jordan and yes often looked to as the standard.  The books are pure gold.  The show is an adaptation, they are keeping most of the main story intact and that is the battle between the light and the dark, Rand vs The Dsrk One and the forsaken.  A lot of sacrifices have to be made to tell that story much to the detriment of the larger richer world of the books.  The characters, generally, are fairly consistent personality wise and motivations to the original works.  A lot of details have to be glossed over or eliminated completely.   I was quite the purist when season 1 came out but after bellyaching over it with 3 of my daughters who also LOVE the books they pointed out to me that I should enjoy it for what it is or not.  One of the daughters is a PURIST and couldn’t make it through season 1 but the other 2 viewed it from that other lens and brought me around to their way of thinking.  Is the show as good as the books, ABSOLUTELY not, but can I appreciate what they are trying to do and stick to the main story Rand gs the dark one and the forsaken.  Through that lens they are doing as well as can be expected considering they only have 8 episodes of 70 min each season with at most 6-7 seasons to tell that story.  A tall order in its own.  Through that view they are doing a well-enough job.

[SinisterDeath]

27 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

This is an incorrect statement.

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

 

This is an incorrect statement.

 

 

[CaddySedai]

This thread needed some cleanup, Caddy to the rescue.

 

Now with an image for just such a thing!

 

[Averlan]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:58 PM, Elder_Haman said:

We’ve established that this isn’t the books. But apart from the fact that it happened differently in the books, what do the Aes Sedai think they have to fear from Logain now that he’s been gentled?

 

Well if you have read the series it comes out later that the Aes Sedai especially the Red Ajah have a metric ton of things to fear from Logain, hence the reason they kept him locked up

[Scarloc99]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:25 AM, Averlan said:

 

Well if you have read the series it comes out later that the Aes Sedai especially the Red Ajah have a metric ton of things to fear from Logain, hence the reason they kept him locked up

I mean no, even in the books no one has anything to fear from him, not until Siuan starts her lies to bring down Elaida. 

[AutismMommaMD]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:03 PM, WoTwasThat said:

While I appreciate the folks trying to stay positive about this - maybe some of you even mean it - at some point we gotta call this for what it is.

 

This is worse than Season 1. Most of these plot points aren’t even recognizable from the TGH or TDR. The writers are just making it all up.
 

We’re supposed to just be thrilled that there is a TV show called “The Wheel of Time” with the same character names but a totally different story?! Oh, but it’s ok because heh - this is a “new turning of the wheel”?

 

Who are the people who think this is a good adaptation of the books?

 

Who are the people who are happy to get this “new turning” instead of the story from the books?

 

I think my favorite additions so far are Perrin’s visions and Nyn’s super badass warder skillz. Rand’s working the third shift at Cairhien General Hospital LOL. 

 

And Moraine. Gah. Does anyone even think Mo will be making her exit in this story? Nah. They’re riding the Rosamund Pike train to the end.

 

I could go on and on but you all know what I mean. It’s just that some of you won’t admit it. 

 

LOL. Love this. 

 

These are very, very, very small changes compared to the massive changes Rafe and His Merry Band are making. I could mention a few, ahem, bigger ones.

 

This excuse rings a bit hollow considering the Rafester keeps squandering all his precious runtime just, you know, making everything up.

 

Each one of these seasons is the equivalent of 3-4 feature length movies. And they can’t faithfully adapt 1-2 books a season in that run? Think about that. (And no, nobody is seriously suggesting a faithful adaption of books 7-10 which would be, frankly, horrific.)

 

Respectfully, these sort of straw man responses are also a bit tiresome. Hopefully my critiques have been specific enough. 
 

 

It’s just a TV show. It’s really not a big deal and def not worth these huge essays lol. Enjoy it for its own value or  turn it off.  I just spent 13 months in breast cancer diagnosis & treatment and was stage 3a and freaking grade 3. And have a 60% chance of being alive in 15 yrs. Tomorrow isn’t promised. Life is too short to spend constantly complaining and bickering. Enjoy it or turn it off. The time ppl like u waste ranting & making entire YT channels to hate on a show is just flushing ur lives down the drain. 

[Jaccsen]

On 11/18/2024 at 6:24 PM, AutismMommaMD said:

 

It’s just a TV show. It’s really not a big deal and def not worth these huge essays lol. Enjoy it for its own value or  turn it off.  I just spent 13 months in breast cancer diagnosis & treatment and was stage 3a and freaking grade 3. And have a 60% chance of being alive in 15 yrs. Tomorrow isn’t promised. Life is too short to spend constantly complaining and bickering. Enjoy it or turn it off. The time ppl like u waste ranting & making entire YT channels to hate on a show is just flushing ur lives down the drain. 

Feel free to personally attack the poster.

 

At least people who criticize care about the material enough to engage. It is far worse when apathy strikes a brand.

 

Life is too short to be told you have to accept whatever they give you and like it or just switch it off an be quiet.

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

Feel free to personally attack the poster.

 

At least people who criticize care about the material enough to engage. It is far worse when apathy strikes a brand.

 

Life is too short to be told you have to accept whatever they give you and like it or just switch it off an be quiet.

 

 

Where was the personal attack?

[Jaccsen]

13 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Where was the personal attack?

 

"The time ppl like u waste ranting & making entire YT channels to hate on a show is just flushing ur lives down the drain."

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

24 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

 

"The time ppl like u waste ranting & making entire YT channels to hate on a show is just flushing ur lives down the drain."

 

 

That seems more like an observation to me. 

[Jaccsen]

7 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

That seems more like an observation to me. 

It is a large exaggeration and was directed personally to the poster in the form of "people like you." No one is making entire channels to hate on the show. The poster came here to discuss it with other fans of the material.

 

It is fine for people to like the show. I heavily dislike it but I state often that I am happy that some folks like the show. I do not tell folks who like the show to be quiet or that they are flushing their lives down the drain.

[DigificWriter]

13 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

No one is making entire channels to hate on the show.

 

This is false. There are people out there who are absolutely dedicating their personal YouTube channels to hating on the TV series and the people who like and support it.

 

15 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

The poster came here to discuss it with other fans of the material.

 

No, they didn't. They came here expecting to find an echo chamber of negativity.

 

16 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

It is fine for people to like the show.

 

Not for some people.

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

This is false. There are people out there who are absolutely dedicating their personal YouTube channels to hating on the TV series and the people who like and support it.

 

That seems like a stretch.  How much content could they get out of 8 hours of programming per season with two years in between?  Even if I 1000% agreed with them that would get boring real quick.  But I guess that doesn't matter if it is a passion project that is not expected to generate income...

[DigificWriter]

12 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

That seems like a stretch. 

 

It's not. Negativity unfortunately 'sells' quite well in today's pop culture environment.

 

If you go on YouTube and search for 'Wheel of Time', you will find almost as many videos hating on the show as you will videos that express positive viewpoints about it.

[Guire]

10 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

It's not. Negativity unfortunately 'sells' quite well in today's pop culture environment.

 

If you go on YouTube and search for 'Wheel of Time', you will find almost as many videos hating on the show as you will videos that express positive viewpoints about it.

No one on YouTube is making money from this show.  I have searched frequently.   Maybe 4 or 5 positive channels about show get between 2k to 10k views.  They barely post outside of season.  Another 2 or 3 negative channels get a few hundred to a few k views.  They also post infrequently.   The interest from book side with crossover to show has also massively dried up. 

 

Most book fans disappointed with show have just ghosted.  Rafe and Co changed young people on hero's journey during apocalyptic war to feminist exploration of feelings in a fantasy setting.  That is very appealing to some fans and horrific to others.  This show is not relevant in any way however from cultural, economic, or entertainment stand point.  It's an ok show that will be forgotten 5 years after final season. 

 

All hail our dark empress Lanfear.  May she reign eternal.

[Elendir]

On 11/25/2024 at 8:12 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

It's not. Negativity unfortunately 'sells' quite well in today's pop culture environment.

 

If you go on YouTube and search for 'Wheel of Time', you will find almost as many videos hating on the show as you will videos that express positive viewpoints about it.

 

I am well aware, that there are some biased critiques of WoT tv show. However I saw you specifically to discard discord constructive critique by your made rules.

 

It isn't such problem, that constructive critique is banalised in this side. Problem is that it was ignored by tv show maker as well. I am getting more and more impression, than this tv show was never intended for WoT book fans.

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:54 PM by Elendir

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, Elendir said:

It isn't such problem, that constructive critique is banalised in this side. 

 

I’m not sure what exactly this means. But it is very hard to honestly critique the show - not because the show fans refuse to hear criticism (they mostly don’t), but because the show detractors mostly refuse to acknowledge anything positive. 
 

Anyone who isn’t relentlessly negative is dismissed as an “apologist” or worse. Season 2 was good tv, despite the liberties taken with the source material. 

[Mailman]

12 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I’m not sure what exactly this means. But it is very hard to honestly critique the show - not because the show fans refuse to hear criticism (they mostly don’t), but because the show detractors mostly refuse to acknowledge anything positive. 
 

Anyone who isn’t relentlessly negative is dismissed as an “apologist” or worse. Season 2 was good tv, despite the liberties taken with the source material. 

And anyone offering criticism of the show is a Bookcloak.

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, Mailman said:

And anyone offering criticism of the show is a Bookcloak.

Untrue. There are plenty of folk on here who offer constructive criticism without falling into the “this show is an abomination, Jordan is rolling over in his grave” nonsense. 

[DigificWriter]

It is impossible to carry on a good-faith discussion with someone who makes it clear through their comments that they are not actually interested in having a good-faith discussion, which is why said persons get dismissed as not having any relevant thoughts about the show.

 

One of the signs of an opposing viewpoint that is worth talking about is that the person expressing said viewpoint can offer a strong defense of said viewpoint if/when asked to do so by someone who holds an opposing viewpoint, but the fact is that a good number of the show's haters fail to be able to accomplish this task if/when they are faced with it.

[DojoToad]

26 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

It is impossible to carry on a good-faith discussion with someone who makes it clear through their comments that they are not actually interested in having a good-faith discussion, which is why said persons get dismissed as not having any relevant thoughts about the show.

 

One of the signs of an opposing viewpoint that is worth talking about is that the person expressing said viewpoint can offer a strong defense of said viewpoint if/when asked to do so by someone who holds an opposing viewpoint, but the fact is that a good number of the show's haters fail to be able to accomplish this task if/when they are faced with it.

Some of us just aren't as eloquent as others.  Sometimes we like or dislike something just because we do.  Articulating why may not always be important.  For example, I love the movie Napoleon Dynamite but hate the movie Stepbrothers.  Don't care about the 'why', that's just how I feel.  And for that reason I won't discuss either movie on a forum.  One I'll watch every year and the other I'll never watch again.

 

But back to your point, I agree that if you come to a forum about WoT (and only WoT) be prepared to defend likes/dislikes.  Saying Rafe is a piece of garbage that destroyed Jordan's beloved books will get a much different response than I didn't like the way Rafe changed the story by adding/deleting these specific scenes for these reasons... The second post would likely lead to a productive back and forth that may or may not change anyone's mind but that might nudge the needle on both sides - even if imperceptibly.  The first leads to trench warfare where each side digs in and the independents throw up their hands in exasperation.

[Elder_Haman]

6 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Some of us just aren't as eloquent as others.  Sometimes we like or dislike something just because we do.  Articulating why may not always be important.  For example, I love the movie Napoleon Dynamite but hate the movie Stepbrothers.  Don't care about the 'why', that's just how I feel.  And for that reason I won't discuss either movie on a forum.  One I'll watch every year and the other I'll never watch again.

 

But back to your point, I agree that if you come to a forum about WoT (and only WoT) be prepared to defend likes/dislikes.  Saying Rafe is a piece of garbage that destroyed Jordan's beloved books will get a much different response than I didn't like the way Rafe changed the story by adding/deleting these specific scenes for these reasons... The second post would likely lead to a productive back and forth that may or may not change anyone's mind but that might nudge the needle on both sides - even if imperceptibly.  The first leads to trench warfare where each side digs in and the independents throw up their hands in exasperation.

To be fair, you are one of the most honest brokers on here. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

I think that discussion should always be possible regardless of your overall opinion. Too often what passes for criticism is actually announcements of how objectively dire the show is. If people are interested in the show (in as much at least due to the source rather than the output) it should be possible to discuss things with people who have different opinions. Exactly the same should be true for those that have a really positive opinion of the show, that some do seem to have, that that should not prevent discussing aspects of the show or looking critically at certain aspects of it. 

 

It has been a fairly common theme in the time I have been here that users claim that you are not allowed to criticise the show, despite that being demonstrably false. What often seems to be meant is that abuse is not allowed to be thrown at other users and the individuals who make the show.

 

The personal attacks against Rafe in particular are rather disappointing - we know from what little information comes out of the production team that Rafe does not have final say in the content of the show (him taking Sanderson's idea about Perrin not killing his wife to the "higher-ups", for example). And yet people continually justify personal attacks against him as they feel strongly about the book. It doesn't seem like a good justification to me. And if we see an actor doing a bad job in our opinion, rarely are personal attacks thrown at them, and allowances are made for the role of the director, etc. 

 

I'd prefer to see discussion of the aspects of the show and the book, instead of arguments about whether the whole is objectively bad or good. Sharing opinions is fine, but it is not so profitable in discussing them without specifics. 

 

In my humble opinion, of course.