WoT Season 2 Episode 1: A Taste of Solitude

[DigificWriter]

55 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Do you not think Moiraine was starting to manage to channel a tiny bit just before Verin turned up?

 

No.

 

Those weaves came from Adeleas (she's the one who tells Moiraine and Lan to cover their ears).

 

Plenty of people believe the 'Moiraine is shielded' theory, but, again, the story is being told as if she's been Stilled, so to state with 100% certainty that she's been shielded and that the characters only think she's been Stilled is, IMO, a mistake that fails to consider the very real possibility that she has in fact been Stilled despite the VFX used to depict what happened to her being similar, if not identical, to the VFX that were used to depict the shielding of Logain in Episode 1x04 and Liandrin shielding Nynaeve in Episode 2x01.

Edited September 3, 2023 by DigificWriter

[Elder_Haman]

6 hours ago, Mailman said:

So are you telling me that the white tower the source of knowledge for almost all things power related in the current universe which has stood for thousands of years has no idea what happens when someone is cut off from the source.

No. I am telling you that in the recent experience of the Tower, very few women have experienced being cut off from the source. For most Aes Sedai, those women are likely cautionary tales - everyone knows you don't want to be cut off, everyone knows it's bad, but almost no one has personally experienced it and only a select few spend their time actually studying it. And of course, every woman will handle loss of the power a little differently, just like every Warder will handle loss of the Bond a little differently. Moreover, no living Aes Sedai knows what it's like to be caught in a shield woven by a man.

 

Bottom line is that the exposition wasn't bad or unnecessary, it made perfect sense. 

[Elder_Haman]

5 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

No.

 

But could she see Adeleas's weaves? She reacted to them.

If she can see them, she hasn't been stilled, no?

[Guire]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

But could she see Adeleas's weaves? She reacted to them.

If she can see them, she hasn't been stilled, no?

That was Verin btw and she did seem to react to them before they created a physical effect.  I think we need a couple of threads giving us consensus rules about how show world works....magic system, warder rules, Min visions, etc.  I am afraid writers are leaning into mini mystery boxes.

[SinisterDeath]

7 hours ago, Mailman said:

So are you telling me that the white tower the source of knowledge for almost all things power related in the current universe which has stood for thousands of years has no idea what happens when someone is cut off from the source.

Book Aes Sedai didn't know it broke the 3 oathes... 

[Scarloc99]

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

Book Aes Sedai didn't know it broke the 3 oathes... 

and because of that I am now unsure, in a good way, because I wonder did she lie to Lan indicating the oath rod is broken now (hence she can return to the white tower). 

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, Scarloc99 said:

and because of that I am now unsure, in a good way, because I wonder did she lie to Lan indicating the oath rod is broken now (hence she can return to the white tower). 

TV show, we don't know if they've changed the rules on bonding/oath rods so that "shielding" can temporarily disable it.

 

It seems "masking the bond" now requires the power rather then a mental techique.

 

It's been implied that the bond is there but Perma masked, and that Alana is there to take Lan's bond by force if necessary.

 

It's also worth noting, that they're definitely playing up Liandrin's sympathy angle this season with the audience, and turning the audience against Moiraine.

 

This is 100% on purpose. They want us to see Moiraine as untrustworthy and unsympathetic, and Liandrin as sympathetic with motivations for the "greater good", like getting out from under Moiraine's thumb.

 

This is all by design for that 180 twist when all is revealed, and Moiraine explains the "Truth" behind her "Lies".

 

That, and I'm almost expecting them to speed up some plots a lot sooner then expected. 

 

[Ralph]

6 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

No.

 

Those weaves came from Adeleas (she's the one who tells Moiraine and Lan to cover their ears).

 

 

 the few glints before the shout? 

[Skipp]

8 hours ago, Mailman said:

So are you telling me that the white tower the source of knowledge for almost all things power related in the current universe which has stood for thousands of years has no idea what happens when someone is cut off from the source.

 

They didn't know that stilling makes the Aes Sedai de-age.

[Borderlander]

I was not a fan of Season 1 (as a book lover, I would give it a C-; if I was pretending I had never read the books, I might give it a B-.) I liked a lot of the actors but thought a lot of the writing was amateurish, many directing decisions were baffling (i.e. the Seanchan sending a tsunami against that little girl on the beach in the final scene?!) and many of the changes/cuts (knowing some changes/cuts *had* to be made) were poorly decided or not well executed. Going into detail would take all day—what's done is done.

 

Went into Season 2 Episode 1 hoping things would get better, as many shows improve with time.

 

I did think it was a little better than I was expecting. Actually looking forward to Episode 2.

 

A few initial thoughts:

 

Still not loving the way the One Power looks. When Alanna 'weaved' earth and water together, it was just generic CGI ribbons of light swirling together. Give us actual threads interlacing! There are so many interesting patterns that can be done with stitching, knitting, weaving, looming, lace, etc! Google 'weaving patterns' and imagine the One Power lacing together over and under, under and over like a complex loom... Oh well, maybe in future seasons.

 

I was strangely happy to see the new Mat... I wish Barney well, wherever he is, but the human side of seeing a new guy welcomed to the show and filling those shoes was really touching.

 

I don't like Moiraine very much. Pike is a great actress; not sure if we are supposed to dislike her character as much as I do; in the books, even when Moiraine was aloof or bossy, I never disliked her. Pike seems to lack something of the pert, chipmunky aspect I always associated with Moiraine.

 

My biggest concern was the smallest scene—showing Rand for 2 seconds lighting a Bel Tine lantern. Major misstep in direction, IMO. Why show him for 2 seconds? Everyone in world and in the viewing audience is wondering Where is Rand? Another missed opportunity to maybe build to a dramatic conclusion and show him at the very end staring into the Aiel Waste as the music builds... Instead we see him for 2 seconds in the dark. I get that they wanted to show him still connected to his roots, honoring Bel Tine at the same time as the E5 even though if off on his own, but it fell quite flat for me. And it makes me nervous about the hand at the helm, making these 'creative' decisions. Seems like the same bizarre mindset that would have the Seanchan launch that tidal wave in S1E8. 

 

Loved the Fade fight at the end... sort of. Was way too dark to see anything clearly... maybe I need a plasma TV? I agree with disliking Lan picking up the Fade sword at all, and with criticisms that Lan never seems to get a Win in this show... but I do think the show understands the Fades almost better than any other 'character' from the books. Their slinky, shadows powers. The way they almost seem to play with the frame-rate (like Into the Spiderverse) when the Fades lunge. Will try to watch it again with contrast maxed out in a darker room.

 

Okay, time for episode 2. Good to be back!

 

 

 

[DigificWriter]

2 hours ago, Guire said:

That was Verin btw

 

I'd thought it was Verin too until a WoTTuber or podcaster I follow mentioned that the initial shout and sonic wave were from Adeleas (although she doesn't appear in the scene) while the fire weaves that helped kill the last Fade were from Verin.

1 hour ago, Ralph said:

 the few glints before the shout? 

 

Yes. See above for the explanation as to why I said what I said about their source.

[Jaysen Gore]

2 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

and because of that I am now unsure, in a good way, because I wonder did she lie to Lan indicating the oath rod is broken now (hence she can return to the white tower). 

Maybe they're even going with her attempt to return to the tower gets stopped by the oath, revealling to her that she is in fact only shielded, and the oath holds because she can still channel.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Borderlander said:

Loved the Fade fight at the end... sort of. Was way too dark to see anything clearly... maybe I need a plasma TV?

Plasma TV? That's like... 20 year old tech! 
You want a QD-OLED TV... and I highly suggest you watch the show with the lights in a room with all the lights off, just like in a movie theater.

[DaddyFinn]

13 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Plasma TV? That's like... 20 year old tech! 
You want a QD-OLED TV... and I highly suggest you watch the show with the lights in a room with all the lights off, just like in a movie theater.

Fade fight is bright enough when room is dark. During daytime I couldn't see anything

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Fade fight is bright enough when room is dark. During daytime I couldn't see anything

It was dark, not as bad as the battle of Winterfell which I still have no real idea what happened in it because it was so so so dark. It seems to be a thing of modern TV making that they want to create these dark droody scenes and then ignore that most of us dont have a home movie theatre to watch it in, and if you change the contrast to see the dark scenes everything else is far to bright.  

[Scarloc99]

7 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

I'd thought it was Verin too until a WoTTuber or podcaster I follow mentioned that the initial shout and sonic wave were from Adeleas (although she doesn't appear in the scene) while the fire weaves that helped kill the last Fade were from Verin.

 

Yes. See above for the explanation as to why I said what I said about their source.

Which makes sense given what we know, she needs to keep her cover enough while also not getting in the way of other plans, so better to come in at the end when it is obvious things are handled. 

[Elder_Haman]

9 hours ago, Borderlander said:

I don't like Moiraine very much.

I don't think you're meant to. I think they very much want her to be unlikable right now.

[DreadLord31]

So I noticed a couple things on my rewatch with my wife that I didn’t notice the first time around (I’m sure some of you caught these and I apologize if they were already mentioned):

 

1) when we first see Egwene she is cleaning the Amrylin’s room, she stares at the stole and smiles 

Spoiler

Beautiful foreshadowing of her aspirations

2) Bayle Domon says that he got his Heart-Stone outside of Cairhein and then something about a crescent moon

 

Spoiler

At some point in this season we’ll get the reveal that reveal that Selene is Lanfear (the blood lady released by Isha’mael in the trailer) 

3) when Liandrin is trying to break Nynaeve’s block she makes a sword of air and says “it’s not much use to make a sword with the power…then it’s just a fair fight” 

 

Spoiler

Great nod to book fans that that’s exactly what Rand does in the books all the time and people who channel make fun of him about it

4) Nynaeve reads Perrin’s letter to Egwene and in the letter he says, “if we’re lucky, wherever he is, Matt will find his way to us. Then it cuts to Liandrin reading to Matt. 
 

Spoiler

And I bet most people miss this, but Liandrin LIES! She says, “hmm. Now that must be painful. A dozen letters and no mention of you.”

 

sooo… A) she is definitely already a darkfriend and, B) we’ll see that reveal this season!! 

 

[Mailman]

10 hours ago, Skipp said:

 

They didn't know that stilling makes the Aes Sedai de-age.

Its the fact that being cut off from the source is such a terrible thing that impacts all the things after it happens. It's an instinctive desire from both sides from the horror of the loss that drives them apart.

[Mailman]

22 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

So I noticed a couple things on my rewatch with my wife that I didn’t notice the first time around (I’m sure some of you caught these and I apologize if they were already mentioned):

4) Nynaeve reads Perrin’s letter to Egwene and in the letter he says, “if we’re lucky, wherever he is, Matt will find his way to us. Then it cuts to Liandrin reading to Matt. 
 

  Hide contents

And I bet most people miss this, but Liandrin LIES! She says, “hmm. Now that must be painful. A dozen letters and no mention of you.”

 

sooo… A) she is definitely already a darkfriend and, B) we’ll see that reveal this season!! 

 

I am not saying you are wrong but she could just be being tricky if she removed the mention of Mat from the letter then read it to him she could just be referencing the letter as it is now. It would be remarkably clumsy for her to be caught in a lie so easily when not necessary.

 

Also 12 letters delivered in a 5month period in a society that does not have any real postal service is a bit optimistic.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Mailman

[SinisterDeath]

55 minutes ago, Mailman said:

I am not saying you are wrong but she could just be being tricky if she removed the mention of Mat from the letter then read it to him she could just be referencing the letter as it is now. It would be remarkably clumsy for her to be caught in a lie so easily when not necessary.

 

Also 12 letters delivered in a 5month period in a society that does not have any real postal service is a bit optimistic.

So her wording was "A dozen letters and not one mention of Mat Cauthon"
The letter said "Mat", not "Mat Cauthon".

Other people are saying that she's skirting the lie like this.

1) They mentioned Mat more then once.
2) They didn't Mention Mat Cauthon, they mentioned Mat.

3) She got a copy of the letter and had it written with out the mention of mat.

Personally, I believe that had she read any version of the version with him in it (and not a copy with it scrubbed), I still think that's stretching the truth even too much for the oaths. 
 

"Not one mention of Mat Cauthon", to mean "haha a dozen mentions of Mat Cauthon" is something you'd expect from the White Ajah, not a Red.  That would be akin to saying "I don't have a bean in my hand" and that not be a lie because "THE BEAN IS IN MY OTHER HAND" That's. just.. yeah...

The idea that "Haha I said Mat Cauthon" and the Letter said "Mat", while technically true is also close enough to a lie that I think it would be hard for an Aes Sedai to confidently say aloud unless they knew they could get away with it and logic around it if it raised any eyebrows. 

[Cipher]

Moiraine is definitely stilled.  This obviously will be resolved when Nynaeve  restores her and may be Logain.

 

 

[Cipher]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:25 PM, Vosha said:

Themes regarding sexual orientation aren't political except inasmuch as certain people have hijacked them to create wedge issues. 

I find it is less about politics and more about the tone and tenor of the WoT.  Rampant sexuality was not present in Jordan’s work and in my experience in polite society it is not discussed.  Good friends sure and some men just let some stuff out once in a while (usually when no woman are present), but I don’t think it improves Jordan’s work at all and it has turned away the people I wanted to enjoy the show.  

[Cipher]

On 9/2/2023 at 1:41 AM, Mailman said:

What about the fact we got a big exposition dump about severing to a group of people that would be aware of the consequences of severing. 

 

Must be especially galling to those that used the argument that you can't have an exposition dump to defend the warder episode. yet I am not seeing any references to it.

Wasn’t this all cleared up with Stepin.

 

We lost valuable time that could have been used to develop Rand, but explaining this bond was crucial for non-readers.

 

About developing Rand, like may be training with a his Da’s sword and all.  Well may be Nynaeve can kill Turak.

[Cipher]

On 9/2/2023 at 1:14 PM, SinisterDeath said:

 

 

Honestly, skip seasons 1 & 2, watch season 3. You'll see bad ass Worf fight. He's pretty fun. 

Worf (human version of him) was my casting for Lan in my book reads.  Lan is the best swordsman in the world essentially. He should be something special.  Not in Wheel of Rafe.
 

I like some of S1 Picard.  Not exactly “Star Trek,” but I liked some of what it did.