Is it bad for WOT if LOTR is a huge success?

[Harldin]

It appears the success of LOTR has been great for WOT. Here in Australia WOT spent most of the last few weeks back in the Prime Top 10

[expat]

Quote

If the show was just Harfoots/Stranger & Elrond/Durin, I'd be content to call it a great show.

I just watched the 6th episode with my brother today.  While the overall series is slightly better than meh, this episode was very weak.  I was looking at my watch trying to figure out how much time was left.

 

I feel about the Harfoot storyline about how most people on this board would feel if WOT spent 20% of Series 1 screen time telling a tertiary story about some Sharans.  Yes, Shara is part of the worldbuilding so it isn't cheating to tell a story there, but it has no business being in the series.

 

The Elrond/Durin subplot isn't good. Maybe because I dislike both the look and the acting for both characters.

[templar7]

2 hours ago, Harldin said:

Not yet convinced that the Istari is Gandolf or that we will ever know who it is, we may be left guessing with the Stranger and he may just leave Middle Earth at the end of the series, without giving a known name. 

I hope you are right my friend. 

 

[templar7]

2 hours ago, expat said:

I just watched the 6th episode with my brother today.  While the overall series is slightly better than meh, this episode was very weak.  I was looking at my watch trying to figure out how much time was left.

 

I feel about the Harfoot storyline about how most people on this board would feel if WOT spent 20% of Series 1 screen time telling a tertiary story about some Sharans.  Yes, Shara is part of the worldbuilding so it isn't cheating to tell a story there, but it has no business being in the series.

 

The Elrond/Durin subplot isn't good. Maybe because I dislike both the look and the acting for both characters.

Hell ya. Is it me or does Galadriel look like she just turned 19. I would be happier if there were no hobbits at all.  The whole thing is over produced and under acted.

The only character that really fits their role is Elendil.

[DojoToad]

6 hours ago, templar7 said:

Hell ya. Is it me or does Galadriel look like she just turned 19. I would be happier if there were no hobbits at all.  The whole thing is over produced and under acted.

The only character that really fits their role is Elendil.

I didn’t have a problem with her age. But that none of the elves looked distinctly different from the humans with the exception of the ears. They just weren’t ’pretty’ enough. They didn’t have the grace. Whatever Jackson did in LotR, it was missing in RoP. 

[DaddyFinn]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Whatever Jackson did in LotR,

Bloom and skin smoothing turned up to 11?

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

Bloom and skin smoothing turned up to 11?

Whatever it was, it worked.

[MasterAblar]

Having a lot of tall and slender actors play elves also helps.

[VooDooNut]

14 hours ago, templar7 said:

Hell ya. Is it me or does Galadriel look like she just turned 19. I would be happier if there were no hobbits at all.  The whole thing is over produced and under acted.

The only character that really fits their role is Elendil.

I thought she had a bit of an Aes Sedai look to her. In some shots, yes, 19, in others, older than 30. It was kind of odd.

[Gypsum]

Both shows suffered from similar issues - in my view. Inexperienced showrunners and some really weak screenwriting and editing. I can live with changes to book canon so long as the writing is compelling enough. And the changes aren't naff. Nynaeve healing everyone from near death and the 'if Elves don't get mithril, they'll die' changes are naff. Both shows had moments - and these gave you glimpses of hope as to what was possible - but often, the storytelling floundered.

 

If I didn't have a connection to the source material, I probably would have gotten bored a few episodes in. But it's Wheel of Time and Middle Earth, so I'll slog onwards and watch the car crash.

 

Just hire some strong screenwriters, guys.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Gypsum

[MasterAblar]

As over the top as it was, I could accept the Nyneave mass heal. Simply because it is afterall what she's good at, it came from a deep emotional place (again fitting for Nyneave), and it demonstrated her considerable power. And it legitimately looked amazing.

 

Her holding off machin sin on the other hand? Just why. Could have just given Moiraine her time to shine, just like in the books, where she holds machin sin and opens the escape path. Only reason I can think of is, oh yes, the Dragon Reborn mystery...

[DojoToad]

8 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

As over the top as it was, I could accept the Nyneave mass heal. Simply because it is afterall what she's good at, it came from a deep emotional place (again fitting for Nyneave), and it demonstrated her considerable power. And it legitimately looked amazing.

 

Her holding off machin sin on the other hand? Just why. Could have just given Moiraine her time to shine, just like in the books, where she holds machin sin and opens the escape path. Only reason I can think of is, oh yes, the Dragon Reborn mystery...

Right, because single-handedly killing a trolloc and the heal bomb weren't enough to put her in Dragon contention... 🙄

[Skipp]

5 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Right, because single-handedly killing a trolloc and the heal bomb weren't enough to put her in Dragon contention... 🙄

So Layla was a dragon candidate because she single-handedly killed a Trolloc? 😋

 

Rand and Perrin clearly only got half points because they both got assists.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Skipp

[Guire]

5 minutes ago, Skipp said:

So Layla was a dragon candidate because she single-handedly killed a Trolloc? 😋

Layla was a blacksmith.  Swing strength, hand eye coordination, and timing are baked into that.  Nyn being all murdery has not really been explained. 

[DojoToad]

9 minutes ago, Skipp said:

So Layla was a dragon candidate because she single-handedly killed a Trolloc? 😋

 

Rand and Perrin clearly only got half points because they both got assists.

Single-handedly killing a trolloc is not enough - otherwise Lan and Moiraine could have been candidates

 

Layla would have been had she set off a heal bomb in addition to the trolloc kill (and was alive).  Rand and Perrin must of picked up points elsewhere.  Hard to understand Rafe's criteria for dragon worthiness...

[SinisterDeath]

13 minutes ago, Guire said:

Layla was a blacksmith.  Swing strength, hand eye coordination, and timing are baked into that.  Nyn being all murdery has not really been explained. 

Pent of up rage from having to deal with Cenn Buie.

[DojoToad]

12 minutes ago, Guire said:

Layla was a blacksmith.  Swing strength, hand eye coordination, and timing are baked into that.  Nyn being all murdery has not really been explained. 

The show runner needs no explanation.  He decrees and it is!!

 

I'm sure there will be a flashback in S2 to support Nynaeve's ninja-ness.  😆

[DojoToad]

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

Pent of up rage from having to deal with Cenn Buie.

That I would buy! 👍

[AdamA]

On 10/23/2022 at 1:32 AM, templar7 said:

Hell ya. Is it me or does Galadriel look like she just turned 19. I would be happier if there were no hobbits at all.  The whole thing is over produced and under acted.

The only character that really fits their role is Elendil.

Morfydd Clark is actually 33, the same age as Cate Blanchett in 2002. They kind of got at least that right in the sense that elves shouldn't age once they're past elf puberty. Of course, they go and squander that with having Celebrimbor look so visibly older than the other elves and Robert Aramayo looking truly like a kid compared to Hugo Weaving, who was already in his 40s when Fellowship was filmed.

 

I still waver with the Harfoot storyline. On the one hand, I thought the relationship between Nori and the Stranger was more touching than any of the other ones shown so far, and they made a nice worldbuilding touch with a fairly interesting culture. On the other hand, what is supposed to be the point of this? It feels like a completely disconnected plot that has nothing to do with the forging of the rings or the eventual last alliance of elves and men this is supposed to be leading toward. The analogy to setting a subplot in Shara seems apt. That could be done well, but why? It's just including a different show in a show for no reason, or in this case, it feels like writing by focus group, that some marketing suits told them the appeal would be broader if it included hobbits and wizards. The time could have been spent actually developing the Southlanders. I don't think this was their intention, but to me, the most interesting characters so far are Sauron and the head Orc Adar. I get trying to gray things up a bit, but do you want people to be rooting for your villains? But if you make the Numenoreans and Southlanders all jackasses or bland, uninteresting archetypes, Galadriel a genocidal maniac, the other elves except Gil Galad idiots and Gil Galad is barely in the show, who else are we supposed to care about?

[DojoToad]

44 minutes ago, AdamA said:

I still waver with the Harfoot storyline. On the one hand, I thought the relationship between Nori and the Stranger was more touching than any of the other ones shown so far, and they made a nice worldbuilding touch with a fairly interesting culture. On the other hand, what is supposed to be the point of this? It feels like a completely disconnected plot that has nothing to do with the forging of the rings or the eventual last alliance of elves and men this is supposed to be leading toward. The analogy to setting a subplot in Shara seems apt. That could be done well, but why? It's just including a different show in a show for no reason, or in this case, it feels like writing by focus group, that some marketing suits told them the appeal would be broader if it included hobbits and wizards. The time could have been spent actually developing the Southlanders. I don't think this was their intention, but to me, the most interesting characters so far are Sauron and the head Orc Adar. I get trying to gray things up a bit, but do you want people to be rooting for your villains? But if you make the Numenoreans and Southlanders all jackasses or bland, uninteresting archetypes, Galadriel a genocidal maniac, the other elves except Gil Galad idiots and Gil Galad is barely in the show, who else are we supposed to care about?

I figure that they were trying to build in why Gandalf was so fond of hobbits.  Thought they spent too much time on it, but that is what I came up with...

[WhiteVeils]

16 hours ago, AdamA said:

 Robert Aramayo looking truly like a kid compared to Hugo Weaving, who was already in his 40s when Fellowship was filmed.

 

Well, he is half human?

[MasterAblar]

6 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

Well, he is half human?

 

Yeah but he was given the choice between elf and human, and chose to be an elf.

[SinisterDeath]

12 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Yeah but he was given the choice between elf and human, and chose to be an elf.

According to the Tokien Gateway, that choice is in the "The Silmarillion, "Quenta Silmarillion: Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath"".

Something Amazon doesn't have the rights to.

[MasterAblar]

40 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

According to the Tokien Gateway, that choice is in the "The Silmarillion, "Quenta Silmarillion: Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath"".

Something Amazon doesn't have the rights to.

 

I mean sure but I don't really see how that affects how they choose to represent him. They don't actually have to say that he's a half elven who chose to be elven, just actually show him as such. I'd be shocked he's not named as Elrond half-elven at some point in the LotR as well. 

 

Anyway, it's more that the elves are kinda all over the place in age appearance in RoP. Whereas in LotR they pretty much all look ageless. Only one who really shows his age should be Cirdan, and I don't recall if he showed up in LotR.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

7 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

Only one who really shows his age should be Cirdan, and I don't recall if he showed up in LotR.

In the flashback at the start showing the 3 rings for the elves - and I think again at the end on the ship taking the ring bearers from middle earth.