Is it bad for WOT if LOTR is a huge success?

[Sabio]

I know a comparison might not be fair considering LOTR has a $250 million a year budget and the Tolkien family had put restrictions on Amazon such as mostly only allowing the series to be based mostly on the appendices of the LOTR and refusing to allow it to be a continuation of the Hobbit and LOTR movies.  Since they were mostly using the appendices there are some strict limits on what they could do but it also frees them from the main WOT complaint about changes being made to the books.

 

Considering there is a division among fans about if WOT was good or not, would it be bad for the future of WOT if the LOTR was a huge success?  Will every WOT be compared to the LOTR now?  Well LOTR got this right etc why couldn't WOT and such?  Or if LOTR ends up as a disaster, will it make people appreciate WOT more?

[DojoToad]

There are sure to be comparisons.  But I don't think, in the end, that a great LotR will make me like WoT less, any more than a bad LotR will make me like WoT more.

 

GoT I thought was well done for the few seasons I watched it - and I did compare/contrast with WoT - with GoT coming out on top.  But in the end WoT is its own show and I like/dislike it on its own merits.

[Pandemonium]

The more good fantasy shows the better.  Of course it remains to be seen if either WoT or LoTR will end up being good shows.  I will give them 2 to 3 seasons to hit their stride 1st.  

Edited August 14, 2022 by Pandemonium

[ForsakenPotato]

Honestly I think it would be good for WoT if LotR is successful -- they will probably give WoT recommendations to people as they finish LotR episodes and I'm sure that will turn at least some folks onto it. And I think LotR is likely to be at least somewhat successful just off the back of how many people really love the original source material...The Hobbit movies are not particularly well loved by fans but they still made a lot of money in the box office, which I'm sure is a big part of why Amazon was willing to make such an investment in it.

[Jake Sykwalker]

They are independent shows.  For me at least the success/failure of one does not impact the other.  It would be great if both of them were successful, but Amazon decided to put both series in hands of inexperienced writers and show runners.  Considering they sunk over half of a Billion dollars (465 +80 mil if the internet is correct) into both shows that is a lot of cash to put in the hands of people with next to no credits to their names.  They didn't even pay someone good in the biz to put their name on the project.  

 

 

[Nik]

If Amazon is smart about their marketing, which I think they are, the LotR show's success will be excellent for WoT. They'll run WoT ads on the LotR episodes and recommend it left and right. Everyone who watches LotR will know about WoT. It can only boost WoT's audience. And anyone who hadn't watched season 1 will have time to binge it after LotR ends to be ready for WoT season 2. 

[Sabio]

I just always worry since some already compared WOT to GOT and how things were done in GOT.  Just seems like to me if LOTR is a huge hit there are going to be the inevitible comparisons on what WOT could have done differently.

[DojoToad]

29 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I just always worry since some already compared WOT to GOT and how things were done in GOT.  Just seems like to me if LOTR is a huge hit there are going to be the inevitible comparisons on what WOT could have done differently.

Why worry about comparisons?  If WoT is the superior show, then people will be talking about what LotR could have done differently. 

[Nik]

Or, hear me out here: people will watch one fantasy show, enjoy it, be hungry for more, and naturally go watch the other big fantasy show on the same platform. And most people? Probably won't even compare them. They'll just be happy to get more fantasy to watch.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Nik

[DojoToad]

22 minutes ago, Nik said:

Or, hear me out here: people will watch one fantasy show, enjoy it, be hungry for more, and naturally go watch the other big fantasy show on the same platform. And most people? Probably won't even compare them. They'll just be happy to get more fantasy to watch.

Could be, assuming either of them are any good…

[Guest Cranglevoid]

It's probably going to be good in terms of viewership, but if LOTR is actually good, it's going to make the show loosely based on the WOT look even worse.

[VooDooNut]

I'm getting Peter Jackson Hobbit-level vibes from the Rings of Power trailers (in other words, hot garbage), but hopefully it's much better than that. More quality Fantasy entertainment is always good! I think a successful Rings of Power will add to the success of WOT.

[Terry05]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:09 AM, VooDooNut said:

I'm getting Peter Jackson Hobbit-level vibes from the Rings of Power trailers (in other words, hot garbage), but hopefully it's much better than that. More quality Fantasy entertainment is always good! I think a successful Rings of Power will add to the success of WOT.

I get the same feeling as you. I'm going to give it a go - one of the most interesting, and relatively unexplored characters for me was Gil-Galad, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with that character. I also read that the show will likely end with the Last Alliance, another thing I really liked reading in the appendices. 

[notpropaganda73]

The latest trailer doesn't fill me with much hope. 

 

Having said that, to answer the OP's question, I think LotR being a success could be good for WoT solely from positive press around Prime and everything, but I don't think it being a failure would really mean anything. Netflix don't look at The Witcher's successes or failures and then think "We will renew the Sandman for another season". The Sandman's success is in its own hands really (although even that seems to be in question with Netflix apparently not guaranteed to renew for another season). 

 

If WoT S2 is good, it doesn't really matter what happens with Rings of Power. 

[mogi68]

No matter how well it does, Amazon will say that it's a huge success

[DojoToad]

25 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

No matter how well it does, Amazon will say that it's a huge success

Yes they will.

[Chaotik_lord]

On 8/24/2022 at 12:22 AM, notpropaganda73 said:

The latest trailer doesn't fill me with much hope. 

 

Having said that, to answer the OP's question, I think LotR being a success could be good for WoT solely from positive press around Prime and everything, but I don't think it being a failure would really mean anything. Netflix don't look at The Witcher's successes or failures and then think "We will renew the Sandman for another season". The Sandman's success is in its own hands really (although even that seems to be in question with Netflix apparently not guaranteed to renew for another season). 

 

If WoT S2 is good, it doesn't really matter what happens with Rings of Power. 

I thought Netflix had pre-confirmed The Sandman for season 2; this would be crushing if I mixed that up with another show.

But success hasn't always been as much in the hands of shows in the past couple of years.  A lot of old-school media groups & their tired execs have been involved with mergers and acquisitions that result in them doing weird things to shows that previously were considered successful, or dropping the ball on marketing shows correctly & to passionate audiences...like how I totally forgot about The Sandman until I saw a screensaver slideshow for its premiere about 6-10 days before it dropped.  That's a very respected property and reviews have been positive from critics & non-critics alike; there was no excuse for the lack of publicity, especially when there is a Streaming Subscription Shuffle happening right now.  But Netflix has been under a new management direction for a bit.  HBO Max is acquired by Discovery, who like the new Netflix C-set think they figured out a way to increase profits: cancel the good, growing shows as though there was a limited broadcast slot lineup demanding tough choices, stuff the service with cheap reality TV and stale weekend-cable owned-library fare.  Forget that a lot of consumers ditched cable over the past 20ish years in sync with that exact mismanagement on traditional television platforms-and those who do both cable plus subscriptions surely don't need you to duplicate cable on streaming.

All that said, Amazon and Disney are both a little different and the former has mastered marketing "If you liked this..." so my guess is LOTR doing well probably bodes well for WOT.  I last heard November might be when WOTS2 releases, and that seems to be a perfect time if they are doing LOTR on a weekly release (I admit I don't know if they are).   People will get that empty feeling as they finish LOTR and WOT will be right there and ready.  Amazon also has a lot of opportunity to advertise to those who subscribe through them to HBO; they can cross-market with the GOT crowd as well.  But this may be a double-edged sword, if this marketing plan is more than a theory.   If Amazon does try to blitz LOTR and GOT viewers with WOT advertising and they can't get enough response, that could be bad news for WOT.  If they can't get high fantasy fans to check out a show that has 2 seasons already (since some people don't want to try stuff that may only ever have the one season) when they have their appetites whetted already, they might decide it isn't worth the investment, and they may kill it or send it into Eternal Show Limbo.

 

Yikes-sorry for the essay; this is something I've been thinking about and I haven't had a social life since I moved here in 2015. XD

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, Chaotik_lord said:

I last heard November might be when WOTS2 releases

Q1/2023 is more likely

[CaddySedai]

I think LOTR will be even more of a hot mess. A beautiful hot mess, but a hot mess nonetheless. Which may be good for WoT because ... imagine if OUR series is the better fantasy offering. Theres not a mountain of competition and the upcoming GoT adjacent series is already getting some ugly vibes from their community. lol

 

 

[AdamA]

The review embargo was lifted yesterday and it debuts now in a little over two hours. Sitting at 84% positive out of 151 reviews so far on Rotten Tomatoes. For what it's worth, Wheel of Time only got 91 total reviews the entire season. I don't state that as any sort of indictment of relative quality, but just to remember how much bigger a deal in broader pop culture outside of genre nerds Lord of the Rings is. It's still the 2nd best selling book of all-time behind the Holy Bible and the first genre film to ever win a best picture Oscar. A lot of people are going to watch this.

 

They only screened two episodes, so I'm not sure the largely positive response so far means much for what the entire season will be like, but the one thing universally agreed upon so far seems to be that it looks great, possibly the best example ever of a cinematic experience translated to the small screen. Given the gigantic pre-existing fan base, I don't think it has a huge hurdle to clear to be a big hit, and it will probably clear that. I'm sure a lot of story elements will be nonsense, but audiences seem to forgive a lot of that if you give them a sweeping and engaging enough experience that drowns it out so they only notice later, Stranger Things probably being the best example out there right now.

 

I suspect it's probably more good than bad for Wheel of Time if Rings of Power is a big hit. If people love it, they'll want something more or less close enough while waiting for the next season. Maybe it compares unfavorably, maybe not, but it's better to get a chance than not, and getting a chance means people need to at least watch it.

[DojoToad]

On 8/26/2022 at 12:25 AM, CaddySedai said:

I think LOTR will be even more of a hot mess. A beautiful hot mess, but a hot mess nonetheless. Which may be good for WoT because ... imagine if OUR series is the better fantasy offering. Theres not a mountain of competition and the upcoming GoT adjacent series is already getting some ugly vibes from their community. lol

 

 

Ugly vibes?  More than WoT had from our community?

[Asha'man Shar'aman]

4 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Ugly vibes?  More than WoT had from our community?

Yeah, we’re definitely some of the more passionate people out there. It kinda made me quit DM for a while, there was just too much fighting. Even before the show came out, people fought over 4 seconds of film. I’m really hoping it’s not going to be as bad with S2, I know people who quit DM as a whole because of the fighting.  

[Guire]

Watched first 2 episodes.  Right now I would say RoP is better than WoT.  Slightly better than HotD.  I have warmed up to HotD  after 2nd episode.  The pacing, dialogue, and some writing felt off at times in RoP.  It probably helps that I haven't reread LoTR, Hobbit, or Silmarillion in a long long time.  Story is very fan fiction from what I have seen on Tolkien youtube channels. 

 

Yes from what I have seen online this battle over RoP in prerelease was way uglier than anything I saw about WoT prime.  Amazon still doesn't seem to be getting full value out of money spent though.  Some of what was surely very expensive cgi and filmed scenes felt like they added nothing to the entertainment value or storytelling of the show.  I think between WoT and RoP they need to start looking for better writing talent.  When your shows budget is the defense budget of some countries there shouldn't be clunky lines.

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

The Rings of Power will definitely draw more people to try out the Wheel of Time show.  How many people read Lord of the Rings and then went on to read Wheel of Time after?  Answer: shitloads.

 

This is the best time in the history of the planet for people who want to watch fantasy on TV.  While Wheel of Time is a worse show than Rings of Power and House of Dragon, it is still a great option for everyone craving more fantasy when those 2 better shows end their seasons.  I imagine the trailers for season 2 will be strategically placed before the last couple of episodes of ROP as well.

[Jake Sykwalker]

After watching about 16 minutes of ROP I hope it gets better.  So far it is slow and boring with cringe dialog.  Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Galadriel vs the snow troll was epically cringe.  Watching a slight elf one hand a two handed sword like it is no big deal and use it as a platform for a mailed warrior to jump off of to wire fly was painful to watch in a fantasy show. 

 

Almost as cringe as her acting so far.  She talks like her lower jaw doesn't work and is constantly angry and berating her companions.  Don't get me started on how the elfs hold their swords, the fact that they look like they are wearing makeup, or how unnatural their armor costumes look.   They appear to be wearing gauntlets and full armor boots, but light (elven?) chain mail.

 

Almost turned it off after pouring water on an old Sauron mark and having it boil away in the middle of a frozen tundra only to then refreeze.  Props to the snowflake cgi of that scene, but it still doesn't make much sense.  If the rest of the show is this "good" we don't have to worry about it drawing people into other fantasy works.  I'll give it a chance, but the acting and writing better improve.  I don't get how you can spend millions on CGI and this is the quality of writing and acting you get for that budget?

Edited September 2, 2022 by Jake Sykwalker