Season 2 Predictions

[SingleMort]

9 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I am not sure I fully understand the quote “We have to add some story while we’re compressing, ”.

 

Why do you have to add if you are already struggling to compress and cut the story?  Doesn’t that mean you have to compress and cut more of the original story?

 

I've had criticisms of season 1 but they've all been things I've felt the show could recover from or move past. This 60 episode thing has me really worried for the long term future of the show though. It feels like this is an arbitrary target set by someone who doesn't know anything about the source material (sounds like a directive from an Amazon executive that they are trying to accommodate). I just feels like they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Even if they trim the books down to the bare bones it's won't be enough time. I think we need to brace ourselves for major cuts if that's what they are aiming for 

[Vambram]

31 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

 

I've had criticisms of season 1 but they've all been things I've felt the show could recover from or move past. This 60 episode thing has me really worried for the long term future of the show though. It feels like this is an arbitrary target set by someone who doesn't know anything about the source material (sounds like a directive from an Amazon executive that they are trying to accommodate). I just feels like they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Even if they trim the books down to the bare bones it's won't be enough time. I think we need to brace ourselves for major cuts if that's what they are aiming for 

 

Major portions of the infamous "slog" from books 7 - 9 are definitely going to have to be cut in order to tell a coherent Wheel of Time story in only 8 seasons of 8 episodes each.

[Jaysen Gore]

25 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

 

I've had criticisms of season 1 but they've all been things I've felt the show could recover from or move past. This 60 episode thing has me really worried for the long term future of the show though. It feels like this is an arbitrary target set by someone who doesn't know anything about the source material (sounds like a directive from an Amazon executive that they are trying to accommodate). I just feels like they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Even if they trim the books down to the bare bones it's won't be enough time. I think we need to brace ourselves for major cuts if that's what they are aiming for 

Yes, but consider this one example - with the potential decision not to have 13 Forsaken, in all probability they just Balefired every Camelyn plotline, because without Rahvin (no statue), Morgase doesn't flee, and Elayne doesn't have to fight for the crown.  It's a major cut, but it's probably more than a books worth all by itself.

 

I'll be posting my full take on season 2 later, but this feels like a good place to highlight just how serious the cuts could be without damaging the A plots of the Wheel of Time.

 

Oh, and 8x8 = 64, which is the working number that just about everyone has assumed for a full series. So we'll see.

[SingleMort]

14 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Yes, but consider this one example - with the potential decision not to have 13 Forsaken, in all probability they just Balefired every Camelyn plotline, because without Rahvin (no statue), Morgase doesn't flee, and Elayne doesn't have to fight for the crown.  It's a major cut, but it's probably more than a books worth all by itself.

 

I'll be posting my full take on season 2 later, but this feels like a good place to highlight just how serious the cuts could be without damaging the A plots of the Wheel of Time.

 

Oh, and 8x8 = 64, which is the working number that just about everyone has assumed for a full series. So we'll see.

I know there's a lot that can be cut. I mean Crossroads of Twilight can be condensed into 15 mins IMO. But my point is GoT had half as many books and about a season more episodes and even then it felt rushed. I mean I don't want to say the show is doomed or anything like that but I just don't see how this can work.

Edited December 30, 2021 by SingleMort

[Ralph]

2 hours ago, SingleMort said:

In the case of the first example

  Hide contents

I could easily see Logain's part cut after he helps Suian escape especially if they use the stilling storyline on Moiraine. They could just give his part to another one of the Asha'man we see later

 

 

In the case of the second seeing as they have at most 52 episodes left to complete the series I'd be surprised if there was even time to do anything more with that person by that time. I'm kinda expecting large parts of the plot to be cut at this point because there simply won't be time to do them.

They've said we will see Logain again - I think the quote was later than you might want but sooner than you might expect

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Morgase doesn't flee, and Elayne doesn't have to fight for the crown.  It's a major cut, but it's probably more than a books worth all by itself.

 

 

I don't see this as a major cut tbh

 

I think we will get bigger than this

[Blackbyrd]

54 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

I know there's a lot that can be cut. I mean Crossroads of Twilight can be condensed into 15 mins IMO. But my point is GoT had half as many books and about a season more episodes and even then it felt rushed. I mean I don't want to say the show is doomed or anything like that but I just don't see how this can work.

I think this is something you have to come to terms with if you want to enjoy the series. Most of the complaints on here basically boil around the idea that this is planned to go down in around 60 hours of TV which one could -without being wrong- call an abomination. As a 60 hour adaptation, even done by the most skilled creative, is likely never going to do true justice to the mountain that is the entirety of the work. So there while a lot of the same things will happen, some cool scenes may be added like blood snow there will also be moments that will be very head scratchy, and I expect season 1 to have been the most as Eye is just a crazy pace.

 

I do think there's a plenty of entertainment value to be had if you spend a good majority of time into Dumai and speed things up after that. The nice thing is since the books are actually finished they won't just decide they're bored and just starting rushing a la Thrones. They'll actually have a decent lay out of some of the stuff they want to happen ahead of time instead of leaving around the old starbucks cup on camera

[notpropaganda73]

3 hours ago, Wassup said:

I am not sure I fully understand the quote “We have to add some story while we’re compressing, ”.

 

Why do you have to add if you are already struggling to compress and cut the story?  Doesn’t that mean you have to compress and cut more of the original story?

 

The idea is getting things across on television in their limited time that the books have an awful lot longer to show. The example he gives is the bond between the Aes Sedai and their Warders. I know many hated the Steppin story in S1 (I personally thought it was really well done but just wanted more time with the EF5 so was frustrated), but that story was added in order to show that bond and connection. Whereas the books can take it's time to do that, the show doesn't have that luxury - so when they compress and cut things from the books, they also need to occasionally add things in that can tell us a story or idea in one episode that the books may take chapters upon chapters to get into our heads as readers. 

 

This won't always work and I'm sure we'll all be even more frustrated as the seasons go on, but I understand the logic. 

 

 

[notpropaganda73]

4 hours ago, Chivalry said:

 

I think it will be fine. But honestly, I'm more attached to the ending of TGH than the ending of TDR. If I had a choice, we'd get Falme.

 

The main things I want is Mat's moment with the Horn and Ingtar's story. I remember when reading the Horn scene, that it felt like a huge moment but Mat sort of did it casually, and I loved that about him (my headcanon may be way off on that, but that's how I remember it!)

 

They can move those moments to Tear though so I'm not too worried about condensing this aspect. It could also give Rand a "big moment" that people were frustrated he missed out on at Tarwin's Gap, because if it is Aiel vs. Seanchan at Tear, the Aiel will struggle against damane. Rand could help tip the balance. 

[EmreY]

10 hours ago, Ralph said:

https://winteriscoming.net/2021/12/29/the-wheel-of-time-amazon-50-60-episodes/

 

Big round up point at the end of season 2

 

Reading that, it would make sense to pick up by Callandor and Falme occurs after that?

 

6 hours ago, Wassup said:

Why do you have to add if you are already struggling to compress and cut the story?  Doesn’t that mean you have to compress and cut more of the original story?

 

If you did what I think might happen, you'd need to add some interpolating scenes, I'm guessing.  It would still flow better than Falme happening first.

[nsmallw]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:20 PM, Wolfbrother31 said:

Well, I started this before the Finale...so now my S2 prediction is...

 

Show gets cancelled part way through - I shed tears & pray that Disney decides to buy the rights to WoT and make it right.

 

That was the worst Finale I've watched in my life... Bad WoT. Bad Tv. 

 

At least it's Christmas and I can watch Hawkeye. 

Disney screwed up Star Wars so I hope to God, Disney stays away period

[nsmallw]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:22 PM, notpropaganda73 said:

It’s not a prediction but a big problem with how they have left S1 is Rand going off on his own. It means

 

1) Lan never trains him 

 

2) Rand doesn’t chase the Horn with Ingtar et al. Ingtar’s reveal as a DF will be hollow without his relationship with Rand imo

 

 

The Ingtar arc is one of my faves in TGH. I truly hope the showrunners keep and expound upon it.

[nsmallw]

In Season 1 , Rand is in the Tower library and sees the prophecy book ( id butcher the title lol). 

 

Does anyone think they'll bring it into the show or was that scene just an Easter egg. 

[Gothic Flame]

5 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

Disney screwed up Star Wars so I hope to God, Disney stays away period

Disney seems to making up lost ground. The Mandalorian is done very well...and set just after "Return of the Jedi." And I'm hearing good things about the "Book of Boba Fett" which has been referred to as "Mandalorian 2.5." 

Hmm..

I predict Amazon is going to search for a timeslot for WoT season 2 that won't have any competition.

[nsmallw]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:28 PM, Chivalry said:

 

And that's an important part of his character. Before he learns how to control his channeling, and even afterwards...his skill with the sword helps protect him and others and even defines his development, from simple farm lad to skilled warrior. 

 

Interesting choices, really...Nynaeve being a tracker is not an important part of the story going forward (per the books), but Rafe made sure to emphasize her ability on multiple occasions this season.

 

Let's see what they do with Rand and the sword. I'm willing to WAFO. I can't imagine that he'll continue to carry this sword without learning how to use is proficiently.

 

On the other hand, have we been told anything about the Heron mark to suggest it's anything other than a cool design, or that he got it from his father? Certainly, sword master Lan did not comment on it. Political genius and amateur historian Moraine did not comment on it. Other than Min...did anyone else even note the design? It seems like a major oversight.

 

Yeah, surely Lan saw the heron sword here and there but they never brought it up in the show. I JUST thought of that . Thank u.

[fitzwell]

I predict I won't make it through the season.  Eventually, my anger over the way my heros are treated will overcome my love for anything WoT and I'll just stop caring.  The only watchers left by the end of season two will be the shills on youtube trying to make money off of something they claim to love, and folks that will watch batwoman on the CW.  Amazon will shut down by season 3 or 4 when they realize their propaganda machine isn't working anymore, and unfortunately we will never see WoT on the screen again.  Sanderson will write more WoT books as Harriet has become too old to protect her husbands work and will give the power over to Brandon who thought ep 6 was the best ep of the season.  Book readers will try the first book or two because again we love this world, but he's no Robert Jordan and like Star Wars without Lucas it will be a mess like this show was.

 

I'll finish up this series again by the end of 2022 and go on to read it again and again over the years to come.  Hopefully my daughter picks it up someday and reads it finding my love for the series and the fandom will go on.  She will find in the books hero's and heroine's, that even if you are not the main character you can change the course of events, and that death is lighter than a feather, but that that duty is heavier than a mountain.  The series just proves the best way to watch WoT is with your imagination.

[EmreY]

58 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

In Season 1 , Rand is in the Tower library and sees the prophecy book ( id butcher the title lol). 

 

Does anyone think they'll bring it into the show or was that scene just an Easter egg. 

 

I'm guessing at Tear.  Would fit in with the books too.

[SingleMort]

7 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

The main things I want is Mat's moment with the Horn and Ingtar's story. I remember when reading the Horn scene, that it felt like a huge moment but Mat sort of did it casually, and I loved that about him (my headcanon may be way off on that, but that's how I remember it!)

 

They can move those moments to Tear though so I'm not too worried about condensing this aspect. It could also give Rand a "big moment" that people were frustrated he missed out on at Tarwin's Gap, because if it is Aiel vs. Seanchan at Tear, the Aiel will struggle against damane. Rand could help tip the balance. 

Honestly I've seen a lot of people say they'll be okay with big cuts so long as they don't cut one of their favourite moments. But I think it's inevitable that some will be cut. And honestly even stuff like Mat using the horn is something I can see cut I mean does it really affect anything going forward? I like the Falme scene, the horn, Whitecloaks charge, Rand's fight but I can't help wondering if that and many other iconic scenes will make the show. Don't forget that cost will also be a big factor in showing these things. I'm betting the ending of season 2 will be closer to the book 3 ending than the book 2 one because it would likely be more cost effective for them to show that. Also I have a feeling that having the Seanchan be driven off then come back is also something that will be cut so that's another reason I don't think the Falme battle will happen.

[fra85uk]

34 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

Honestly I've seen a lot of people say they'll be okay with big cuts so long as they don't cut one of their favourite moments. But I think it's inevitable that some will be cut. And honestly even stuff like Mat using the horn is something I can see cut I mean does it really affect anything going forward?

 

Well, if adapting means just arriving from point A to B, no matter what is in the middle, we can say that any epic moment of the books can be erased and replaced with made-up stuff from the showrunners.

 

But, for me, there are some iconic moments that need to be rightly put on screen, no matter how they affect things going forward but for their inner epicity.

[KakitaOCU]

2 hours ago, fitzwell said:

The only watchers left by the end of season two will be the shills on youtube trying to make money off of something they claim to love, and folks that will watch batwoman on the CW. 

 

Could we stop with insulting everyone who disagrees with you and claiming they're lesser or fake or anything of the sort?  I respect that you're not enjoying the show, could you maybe show the same courtesy?

 

2 hours ago, fitzwell said:

Amazon will shut down by season 3 or 4 when they realize their propaganda machine isn't working anymore, and unfortunately we will never see WoT on the screen again. 

 

Doubtful, the show is doing very well amongst the total audience vs the book purist crowd.  If the show really does lag I predict 5 seasons at least.

Also, what propaganda are you talking about?

 

2 hours ago, fitzwell said:

Sanderson will write more WoT books as Harriet has become too old to protect her husbands work and will give the power over to Brandon who thought ep 6 was the best ep of the season.  

Where do you get this idea?  First off, Sanderson respect Harriet on this.  Second off, Sanderson dislikes the idea of writing in worlds that aren't his precisely because of the backlash and difficulty getting in the right headspace.  His own Cosmere is doing incredibly well, he's not going to ditch it to write Wheel, it wouldn't be profitable even if he was willing to entertain the idea.

 

As a complete aside, am I misunderstanding that this thread is for predictions for story flow and progress in the series?  Seeing an awful lot of just basic complaints for how people don't like the show, which we have other threads for.

 

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

49 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

Honestly I've seen a lot of people say they'll be okay with big cuts so long as they don't cut one of their favourite moments. But I think it's inevitable that some will be cut. And honestly even stuff like Mat using the horn is something I can see cut I mean does it really affect anything going forward? I like the Falme scene, the horn, Whitecloaks charge, Rand's fight but I can't help wondering if that and many other iconic scenes will make the show. Don't forget that cost will also be a big factor in showing these things. I'm betting the ending of season 2 will be closer to the book 3 ending than the book 2 one because it would likely be more cost effective for them to show that. Also I have a feeling that having the Seanchan be driven off then come back is also something that will be cut so that's another reason I don't think the Falme battle will happen.

The sky over Falme should be lit up! It was an important moment in the books...which typically seems to mean "not happening."

 

[notpropaganda73]

1 hour ago, SingleMort said:

But I think it's inevitable that some will be cut. And honestly even stuff like Mat using the horn is something I can see cut I mean does it really affect anything going forward? 

 

No of course not, I was also on these forums saying I'll be really sad if the Green Man was cut but purely because of what he says to Loial "It is good to see you little brother". The line has zero impact on the wider plot, or anything really, but I always loved it and am sad we don't get to see it. The same is true of Mat and the Horn really, to be honest I sort of expected them to cut the Horn completely so am surprised it is in the show. But now that it's there, I really hope to see Mat be the one to blow it and to do it in that Mat-style - but if it's not that way, it's no big deal going forward, no. 

 

Of course it's inevitable some things are cut, and most of my favourite moments from the series are small character moments rather than big set pieces, so in all likelihood the vast majority of my favourite scenes from the series will not make it. 

[EmreY]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

The sky over Falme should be lit up! It was an important moment in the books...which typically seems to mean "not happening."

 

 

I'd really like to see the sky over Falme light up.  And in a visual medium it would make sense to keep this.  But in my mind's eye, I've never been able to come up with a way of showing this without it appearing like a laser show.  

 

Any takers?

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by EmreY

[Scarloc99]

14 hours ago, SingleMort said:

 

I've had criticisms of season 1 but they've all been things I've felt the show could recover from or move past. This 60 episode thing has me really worried for the long term future of the show though. It feels like this is an arbitrary target set by someone who doesn't know anything about the source material (sounds like a directive from an Amazon executive that they are trying to accommodate). I just feels like they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Even if they trim the books down to the bare bones it's won't be enough time. I think we need to brace ourselves for major cuts if that's what they are aiming for 

The directive is because this is how modern streaming TV has gone. 

All modern tv shows are 8 episodes long, the lack of advertising time means you can dedicate an entire hour to each, but 8 is seen as the perfect binge number (you can devour 8 hours of TV in a single day, or a couple of evenings). 8 episodes is also a perfect number for hooking people in who are not fanatical about the show, again it is a short enough number that someone will watch it anyway if nothing else is on as opposed to seeing "if I get into this then I have to watch 15+ episodes, that is too much of an investment". I can say honestly I have looked at TV shows I think I might semi enjoy, seen a season is 20 episodes and just gone nope. 

 

But there is also a practical effect to filming. It means that Actors know they will only be committed to filming for at most a couple of months if they are unfortunate enough to be in most scenes, for most actors its a few weeks on set. If you go back to something like Smallville which had 20 episode seasons the cast where pretty much filming 16 hours a day 7 days a week to the point that Tom Welling has openly stated he went weeks with no real sleep. 

I don' see Amazon changing this at all. 

[Jaysen Gore]

So, predictions for Season 2:

In short, I don’t think of this so much as a combination of two and three, I think of this as 2, and most of 3 is going to get eliminated the season after. Rafe is already on the record that there is a major death cliff hanger at the end of Season 3, and the only 3 candidates for that are from mid-book 4 to mid-book 5 - and I bet it's Odin. So, I think Tear gets only a couple of episodes (S2 or S3) – if any - before people head for the Waste and Tanchico early in S3.

 

The easy part – the Wonder Girls’ plot from book 2 is almost completely intact.  We get the Tower, Nynaeve raised, the block intro’ed, Egwene training. They get taken to Falme, intro the Seanchan culture, they free themselves. They meet up with whichever boys are there, and all take ship to Tear with Domon.

 

We get the 3 Trakands, and Elaida, intro’ed in the White Tower.

 

Perrin – we get the Wolfbrother arc from book 1 with Hurin / Elyas as the same character, while he also fills the “young lord” role in Ingtar’s hunt for the Horn. Will he do what’s necessary. We might get Noam, but I think that’ll wait until the season after.

 

Loial / Verin – as per book, with Perrin instead of Rand.

 

Moiraine / Lan – hunting for a cure, and accurate prophecies to figure out what the hell’s coming. She is not cured in season 2. Lots of feelings and emotions, but not a lot of action. Maybe have Lan as more of a bad ass protecting her since she can’t channel.

 

Mat – he’ll end up in Falme with the Horn and the Dagger, after having healing fail, and the Reds abuse him; I don’t know how or when he joins back in. Could be:
- if they do Amyrlin to FD, he could be dragged along, because they know the dagger’s missing
- he travels with the Girls in the Min role to Falme. I think this is most likely.

- he escapes from the WT, heads to Cairhien following the dagger, and meets the other boys there (gotta love when plot armor coincidence is an in world feature). Rest per tGH

 

Rand – this could go one of three ways:

1 – he heads into the waste and encounters the Aiel. Not a lot of time on screen from him, or them. Callandor is at Rhuidean and makes no appearance in S2. Tear is a complete non-factor in the series

2 – Rand walks out of the Blight to Cairhien, meets Selene, has much the same story arc by himself, and she pushes him to head to Tear to take the Sword that is not a Sword; intro of the Choedan Kal, and a lot of talk about Glory.

3 – As per 2 above, but Perrin and Rand hit Cairhien at the same time and get Ta’veren’ed together. Rand learns Fain has the dagger and is threatening Emond’s Field / Loial / Mat. Rand journeys with Perrin to Falme. 5 will ride forth, but probably no Turak.

 

Personally, I expect this will be number 3, and Rand will be at Falme, with the fight across the sky.

 

Rafe's big reset meeting point is either Falme, Tear, or in the boat from one to the other. I think it would work better if it were Tear, because my belief is they cure Moiraine by having Rand kill dream shard guy, and his spell evaporates, and I can't see (and didn't like) how she just happened to be at Falme in tGH. But I think they board ship in Falme, and start S3 in Tear.