WoT Premier - Read At Your Own Risk!

[CaddySedai]

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Something made them decide to be more protective of the production and I'm betting on it being a change they don't want revealed until the episode airs.

 

Yeah but here is the rub. You cannot make Rand not the DR. He survives till the end because he IS the Dragon Reborn. If he was just another male channeler than kill him off now because there is no way the Tower lets him live - nor will there be reason to. None of the events that happen can happen.

 

Or he doesn't have the power...in which case he's relegated to a bit role. He doesn't have a cursed dagger and memories of the ancients. He doesn't have wolf blood. 

 

I mean he has a heron marked sword but he doesn't have a secret blademaster in his brain.

 

Making him not the DR quite literally breaks the character. So TBH delete him now. Just kill him off. Cuz he's irrelevant then.

[Guire]

3 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

Yeah but here is the rub. You cannot make Rand not the DR. He survives till the end because he IS the Dragon Reborn. If he was just another male channeler than kill him off now because there is no way the Tower lets him live - nor will there be reason to. None of the events that happen can happen.

 

Or he doesn't have the power...in which case he's relegated to a bit role. He doesn't have a cursed dagger and memories of the ancients. He doesn't have wolf blood. 

 

I mean he has a heron marked sword but he doesn't have a secret blademaster in his brain.

 

Making him not the DR quite literally breaks the character. So TBH delete him now. Just kill him off. Cuz he's irrelevant then.

So your hot take is that they kill off Rand. Reddit is going to love this one ? That has been  my reassurance all along.  Having non Dragon Rand would make him and the Tigraine actor highlighted in trailer irrelevant and a waste of screen space.  A true Egwene or Nyn as Dragon would revert to normal male power structures with female power be tainted. This might actually be a cool alternative spinning of the wheel that might make a great later show.  They have just been hiding Rand so its not so on the nose in a production that is giving big nods to empowerment and inclusiveness that our main protagonist could be on a Hitler youth poster.   

[CaddySedai]

2 minutes ago, Guire said:

So your hot take is that they kill off Rand. Reddit is going to love this one ? 

 

If he's not the Dragon you should kill him. That's not just a hot take, its the reality.

[Guire]

17 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

See, thats where we are going to clash.

 

I believe in the Giant Bigwheel in the sky that shall roll over all reshaping the world in an endless cycle of rebirth.

 

May the tri-wheels be with you. 

 

CaddySedai

First Prime of the Holy Roman Order of the Bigwheel.

Your worship is not nearly as elegant and composed as the the Great Horse that chews our souls like blades of grass than returns us to reality to nurture all other souls.

[Guire]

1 minute ago, CaddySedai said:

 

If he's not the Dragon you should kill him. That's not just a hot take, its the reality.

I agree.  Rand is Dragon. No reason to cast him if not.  

[CaddySedai]

1 minute ago, Guire said:

Your worship is not nearly as elegant and composed as the the Great Horse that chews our souls like blades of grass than returns us to reality to nurture all other souls.

 

So cute.... an implication that your god literally shats you back into the world. 

 

"Elegant" is apparently a word whose definition seems to differ.

[Guire]

7 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

So cute.... an implication that your god literally shats you back into the world. 

 

"Elegant" is apparently a word whose definition seems to differ.

Haha you caught me. Yes it is shat all the way down.  The great nourisher of fan websites time without end.

[AusLeviathan]

33 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Yeah but here is the rub. You cannot make Rand not the DR. He survives till the end because he IS the Dragon Reborn. If he was just another male channeler than kill him off now because there is no way the Tower lets him live - nor will there be reason to. None of the events that happen can happen.

What if though in this world where it's possible for a woman to be the DR, it's not so easy for Moiraine to accept that he is the DR.

 

In EOTW the climax confirms to Moiraine that Rand is the DR, he's the only one of the boys who could channel and his different appearance from the others made it likely that he was the one born outside the Two Rivers.

 

In this series though Rand channeling wouldn't immediately make him the one because Egwene can channel and she's also considered a possibility. So how do you present certainty to Moiraine that Rand is the DR? It could be that they don't.

 

It's entirely possible that season 1 ends with Moiraine uncertain, perhaps a choice between Rand and Egwene and she decides to play both sides. Send Egwene to the White Tower whilst keeping Rand a secret and letting him run free to see what happens.

 

That honestly wouldn't even be that big of a change from the books. He's not official recognized by the White Tower as the DR in the books until he draws Callandor.

Edited November 17, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Guire]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

What if though in this world where it's possible for a woman to be the DR, it's not so easy for Moiraine to accept that he is the DR.

 

In the books the climax easily shows Moiraine that Rand is the DR, he's the only one of the boys who could channel and his different appearance from the others made it likely that he was the one born outside the Two Rivers.

 

In this series though Rand channeling wouldn't immediately make him the one because Egwene can channel and she's also considered a possibility. So how do you present certainty to Moiraine that Rand is the DR, it could be that they don't.

 

It's entirely possible that season 1 ends with Moiraine uncertain, perhaps a choice between Rand and Egwene and she decides to play both sides. Send Egwene to the White Tower whilst keeping Rand a secret and letting him run free to see what happens.

 

That honestly wouldn't even be that big of a change from the books. He's not official recognized as the DR in the books until he draws Callandor.

That seems like the most likely scenario.  Especially with Moraine being initial primary viewpoint.  I vaguely remember in first read throughs 30 years ago that I wasn't certain in first 3 books who might be good, bad, or ultimately important.  I assumed everyone could be a dark friend well into middle books.  

[CaddySedai]

Yeah. But in your scenario it doesn’t make him NOT the dragon. 

 

And you have to send her to the Tower anyhow. Shes a channeler. Thats where you send them lol. 

 

It would be a stupid and frankly unnecessary change. I am ok with changes that help with flow or are minor. But look.

 

Rand literally battles Chosen at the Eye. He drains a pure pool of power and finds the banner of the Dragon.

 

Its a neon sign of hey look at meeeeeeeeee.

 

So that there is the most leeway I will give Rafe. If at the Eye they keep playing coy with it - I’ll be pissed. Pissed enough to CONSIDER stopping watching lol. 

 

confirming he isnt the dragon however is an endgame. Done. Fin. 

 

Why? Again each character stands on their own without being the Dragon. Delete the Dragon from Rand and you have… what… a grumpy redhead?

Edited November 17, 2021 by CaddySedai

[Guire]

2 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Yeah. But in your scenario it doesn’t make him NOT the dragon. 

 

And you have to send her to the Tower anyhow. Shes a channeler. Thats where you send them lol. 

 

It would be a stupid and frankly unnecessary change. I am ok with changes that help with flow or are minor. But look.

 

Rand literally battles Chosen at the Eye. He drains a pure pool of power and finds the banner of the Dragon.

 

Its a neon sign of hey look at meeeeeeeeee.

 

So that there is the most leeway I will give Rafe. If at the Eye they keep playing coy with it - I’ll be pissed. Pissed enough to CONSIDER stopping watching lol. 

 

confirming he isnt the dragon however is an endgame. Done. Fin. 

One review I read said events did not follow timeline of books. Maybe Eye happens differently.  Yea you are correct once anything like Eye or Tarwin's Gap happens in book the game is up.  

[RextheDog]

i always thought Rand was the dragon from chapter 1 EOTW

 

starts with his POV.

 

there was a bit of mystery injected into it to kinda second guess yourself the tiniest bit,  but, nah, he was the dragon to me from the kickoff.

 

as for the show not making him the DR, that would be ridiculous....just about every event is tied into him being the dragon....it wiouldnt even be a shell of the same story....it would be a story,, using the same character names as WOT and the same places as WOT and there it ends.

 

id still watch though....being the sucker i am....i mean....i watch all sorts of garbage...

 

[AusLeviathan]

42 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

So that there is the most leeway I will give Rafe. If at the Eye they keep playing coy with it - I’ll be pissed. Pissed enough to CONSIDER stopping watching lol. 

I mean like I said, that's the reaction I'm expecting.

 

Rafe has been pretty clear that he's doing his own thing and everything we've seen from the changes in backstories to the knowledge of the Dragon Reborn to the production design has affirmed that.

 

I have trouble believing that after all the work he put into changing things around and setting up differences in this version of the WOT world that he would get to the climax at the EOTW and then play it straight as it is in the books.

 

I don't know exactly what they're going to do but I feel pretty confident that episode 8 won't end with Rand having solo channeled the Eye and Moiraine being confident that he's the DR. There's going to be some noticeable change there, there pretty much has to be.

[Ralph]

Rafe said book readers would know who it is immediately, but they thought it worth concealing for the non-readers. 

 

 

 

[AusLeviathan]

55 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Rafe said book readers would know who it is immediately, but they thought it worth concealing for the non-readers. 

Showrunner's, Directors, Writers, Producers and even Actors do unfortunately lie sometimes. Here's some examples.

 

Christoph Waltz lied about playing Blofeld in Spectre and said his role "was more interesting than that", Christopher Nolan lied about Talia al Ghul being the main villain of TDR, JJ Abrams lied and said he wouldn't feel comfortable tackling an update of Khan before he went ahead and whitewashed the character, George Lucas has lied so many times about Star Wars you could fill a book with them, the Director of the Mulan remake lied that they were portraying Mulan as an ordinary woman when she in fact was essentially portrayed as a magical superhero, Stephanie Meyer repeatedly lied while writing each Twilight sequel by answering fan questions only to contradict her own answers in whichever book she was writing at the time and even GRRM lied in the lead up to GOT in a feature where he said that Ned Stark was the main character of the books, as in plural.

 

Would Rafe lie to prevent the fan base from panicking and causing bad press? Yes he would.

 

I still think it's 100% Rand though, I'm just also certain that something is going to happen in Episode 8 which they don't want anyone to know about until it airs.

Edited November 17, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[SinisterDeath]

8 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

 

So cute.... an implication that your god literally shats you back into the world. 

 

"Elegant" is apparently a word whose definition seems to differ.

Well, at least there's pie.

 

 

[Joe B]

Spoiler

We're supposed to find out in episode 7 apparently:

 

Spoiler

"Moiraine and her charges are diverted from their path by an unexpected encounter. This diversion, though, reveals many things — Moiraine’s true goal, Lan’s past, the fractures that have grown in the group, and the identity of the Dragon Reborn."

 

I swear, if they ruin my holiday time...

[TheDreadReader]

10 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

What if though in this world where it's possible for a woman to be the DR, it's not so easy for Moiraine to accept that he is the DR.

 

That might actually be a more logical extension of the world building than you get in the books.

 

10 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

That honestly wouldn't even be that big of a change from the books. He's not official recognized by the White Tower as the DR in the books until he draws Callandor.

 

An open kind of question for the show is:  if you're streamlining/condensing some of the storylines/plots do you keep the 3 different times that Rand is shown to be the dragon or do you just pick one?

 

First book, the narrative propels Rand to be at the Eye.  Second book, the narrative pulls Rand to Falme.

It is only in the third book that Rand decides on his own to go on his own towards fulfilling the 'prophecies'.

 

If the show keeps all three then it would make sense to keep the mystery going into either season 2 or 3.

 

 

[TheMountain]

6 hours ago, NightWolf said:

Old hat here but it seems odd to place so much

  Hide contents

subterfuge in masking the Dragon Reborn's identity when it'll take a non-reader 14 seconds to look online for book wiki references... especially with interweb access in abundance. "Click, click, scroll, umm k it was Rand, got it."

 

If I never read the books before and all of a sudden Amazon adverts a new fantasy show to rival GoT, I'd immediately go WTF, gotta go research this out. Surely one would grasp the main characters and plot points under an hour.

 

I can only speculate that this obscurity would only benefit a change to whom the DR is for the show. Otherwise it seems like a heavy lift for zero gain.

 

Spoiler

I suppose it's possible that the "Who is the Dragon?" "mystery" is actually a deflection tactic that allows the show to keep Rand as the DR without causing too much controversy. They realize that the answer is obvious, but at least this way they have plausible deniability lol.

 

[Elder_Haman]

The "who is the Dragon" thing is simpler than that. It's a narrative hook. Despite Rand's role as the Dragon, this is going to be an ensemble show. All of the characters matter and you need viewers to get invested in all of them right away.

 

So you make them pay attention to every one of them using "who is the Dragon" as a narrative tool. It doesn't matter who actually ends up being the Dragon (spoiler: it's Rand), because by structuring the plot around that question forced the audience to consider each character as a "suspect". The payoff comes later as you slow down the pace and find that people understand what everyone has been through up to that point.

 

So much of the first book is told from Rand's POV that you sort of lose track of the other characters. The tv show can't just shelve people for multiple episodes at a time though. They have to spend time with all of them and the "mystery" gives people a reason to care in the beginning.

[jeffreycwagner]

The changes made to both Perrin and Mat, seem character breaking.

 

Is this something that ruins them or do they somehow make it work?  I can not see how it can work. 

Or if it does not work, is it not referred to that much and something I can just pretend does not really exist?

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, jeffreycwagner said:

The changes made to both Perrin and Mat, seem character breaking.

 

Is this something that ruins them or do they somehow make it work?  I can not see how it can work. 

Or if it does not work, is it not referred to that much and something I can just pretend does not really exist?

 

From what I have read neither is character breaking, it is character forming.  With Perrin you are taking alot of his internal monologue struggle and giving it an external scene to showcase.  Pretty much the same with Mat regarding his lifestyle and how he reacts on Wintersnight.

 

But I haven't actually seen the episodes yet so I may feel differently watching them rather than reading about them.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Skipp
Conclusion added

[CaddySedai]

Honestly it made me feel more deeply for them.

 

I actually approve of the changes. Unnecessary yes - but they do improve so not a bad add.

[Agitel]

There have been some good write ups on this board about how the changes to Perrin and Mat will work in a television medium to show a lot of the internal issues for these characters.

 

[jeffreycwagner]

Yeah, I have read almost everything on here and I am not buying it - at least in writing so I guess I just wait to "see".  I was hoping it was false as in my mind it seems character breaking, as in they are still called "Mat" and "Perrin" but they no longer have any relation to those of the books.

 

This is probably worse than the possibility of a female dragon, which I know has also been beaten to death - I will most likely have to pretend the additions to their respective families do not exist, but, again, it will be a wait and see. . . .