Prophecies of the Dragon in the TV series adaptation

[nsmallw]

I'm not going to get into all the infighting that's occurring when discussing certain issues that I can't name for fear of my post being denied publication.

I just have a general question that I feel sorta relates to the issues being "discussed" . 

 

I haven't heard any mention of the Prophecies of the Dragon in any promotional material for the show. 

 

Can anyone else point to an instance where they are mentioned that I missed ?

 

If the Prophecies aren't in the series AT ALL , that means that the discussions/arguments are meaningless since those Prophecies have multiple areas that are specific as to aspects of the Dragon  

[Ralph]

Moiraine has come to the Two Rivers in search of the one who will save or destroy the world. A mysterious and powerful Aes Sedai capable of channeling the One Power, her arrival brings with it concern, and threat of chaos. She claims to seek the prophesied Dragon Reborn, but for what purpose? Aes Sedai may never speak that which is not true, but the truth one tells you is not always the truth you may think.

 

- from the prime website

[JaimAybara]

I haven’t seen a lot from any of the clips yet. That being said they could just introduce those concepts after their journey starts. I know the Karaethon cycle is rather long but it’s so cool, so I hope they implement it somehow. What else could be interesting is if after some of the characters start reading in libraries later is if they drop the reading material on the Amazon site maybe? Or they could give a brief glimpse into a book which had the script legible briefly and the viewer can pause it to see the information. 
 

Regardless of how they implement them I think it would be worthwhile to have a variation in the show. That to me would be even more fun for newcomers to become invested as they try to predict things as they unfold.  

Edited November 5, 2021 by JaimAybara

[mogi68]

Is the Karaethon Cycle mentioned in TEOTW? I can think of a passing reference when Padan Fain brings news of Logain, but don't remember the prophecies being quoted in the first book outside of maybe the opening and closing blurb

 

[king of nowhere]

how would moiraine know that the dragon is reborn without prophecies?

of course they will be in the show

[TheDreadReader]

2 hours ago, nsmallw said:

If the Prophecies aren't in the series AT ALL , that means that the discussions/arguments are meaningless since those Prophecies have multiple areas that are specific as to aspects of the Dragon  

 

Do you mean, will we see and hear the prophecies themselves or do we merely see and hear the prophecies referenced by the characters?

 

I could see it go either way really for a few different and contradictory storytelling reasons.

 

[nsmallw]

True. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

[nsmallw]

1 hour ago, mogi68 said:

Is the Karaethon Cycle mentioned in TEOTW? I can think of a passing reference when Padan Fain brings news of Logain, but don't remember the prophecies being quoted in the first book outside of maybe the opening and closing blurb

 

Ah that's true. Thanks for your insight. 

[Raezold]

18 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

how would moiraine know that the dragon is reborn without prophecies?

of course they will be in the show

 

How would she know without prophecies? Ehh..., maybe because she was present when Moroso had her Foretelling  about Rand being born at that instant?

"He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"

That might give Moiraine a tiny hint about the Dragon being reborn, don't you think? And not a single prophecy involved.
But anyway, nor the Foretelling nor the prophecies will be in the show. Simply because they clearly speak about the Dragon being a man and we know from the promo material that in the show the Dragon could apparently be a woman. Ergo, no Foretelling and no prophecies. Guess we'll get another reason why Moiraine Croft goes on her search.
 

Or, I guess, Rafe 'woke feminist' Judkins changed all of it of course. Wouldn't put it past him. Guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

[Elder_Haman]

10 minutes ago, Raezold said:

He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"

Let me slightly alter this prophecy:

"The Dragon is born again! I feel it! The Dragon's soul takes its first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! It is coming! The Dragon is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! The Dragon lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! The Dragon's soul burns like the sun!"

 

10 minutes ago, Raezold said:

Ergo, no Foretelling and no prophecies. Guess we'll get another reason why Moiraine Croft goes on her search.

So, still a foretelling. Still prophecies. Moiraine goes on her search just like she did in New Spring. Hardly any change at all.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Elder_Haman

[king of nowhere]

39 minutes ago, Raezold said:

 

How would she know without prophecies? Ehh..., maybe because she was present when Moroso had her Foretelling  about Rand being born at that instant?

"He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"

That might give Moiraine a tiny hint about the Dragon being reborn, don't you think? And not a single prophecy involved.
 

isn't a foretelling the same as a prophecy? for heaven's sake, a prophecy is nothing but a foretelling that somobedy wrote down!

 

as for the rest of your post, i can't even tell if you're serious or you're making a parody, so i won't comment

[Agitel]

Please remember we've really been shown very little about the show lore. While I don't believe there's been a reference to prophecies yet in the trailers and teasers, it's not justified to just conclude that the prophecies have been written out of the show. We'll get a better idea after some episodes have been released.

[Agitel]

Okay, I have something concrete. On the Amazon website's page for Wheel of Time, in the timeline entry for 978, it reads: "A child was born, believed to be Lews Therin spun back into the world to once again challenge the Dark One. This person has been referred to in prophecy as the Dragon Reborn. They are fated to have great power, and it is said they will either save the world, or destroy it."

 

Prophecy mentioned.

 

Note: you need to be logged into Amazon Prime Video to be able to access the additional features that show this.

[JaimAybara]

They said bits and pieces of the first three books will be present in S1 so there is ample space for the prophecy information to be present, either in spoken or written format with the books read in the Stone.  We also got some clues from all of their dreams at times. 

[Raezold]

5 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

isn't a foretelling the same as a prophecy? for heaven's sake, a prophecy is nothing but a foretelling that somobedy wrote down!

 

as for the rest of your post, i can't even tell if you're serious or you're making a parody, so i won't comment

 

Well, no. At least not to me. In my opinion a prophecy is something that's going to happen in the future. Not something that's happening at that exact moment. I mean, in that case I prophesize that my cat is taking a shit right now. Not much of a prophecy is it?

 

And I am serious. Mocking the nonsense though.

[king of nowhere]

30 minutes ago, Raezold said:

 

Well, no. At least not to me. In my opinion a prophecy is something that's going to happen in the future. Not something that's happening at that exact moment. I mean, in that case I prophesize that my cat is taking a shit right now. Not much of a prophecy is it?

 

And I am serious. Mocking the nonsense though.

most foretellings are of the future. the one of gitara is one of few exceptions.

I emphasize, every. single. prophecy. is a foretelling that some channeler had at some point. a foretelling that someone wrote on paper. if there are foretellings, then there are prophecies.

 

and it's much, much easier to change the pronouns in the foretelling than it is to figure out a completely different way moiraine could have known the dragon is reborn

[Rose]

 

Siuan mentions prophecy here.

 

[Skipp]

I appreciate that we are getting the "I'll kill him before I let them have him" line

[Jackdaw_Fool]

You can fix the foretelling and other prophesies much more easily:

 

"He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun! No... Wait... She! I meant she! Rather, he or she! I'm sorry the vision as to the gender of the dragon reborn is actually rather fuzzy. Also this retroactively applies to all other prophesies!"

[TheDreadReader]

15 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

 

and it's much, much easier to change the pronouns in the foretelling than it is to figure out a completely different way moiraine could have known the dragon is reborn

 

True but I don't know if just changing the pronouns in the prophecies plays all that well with the Sarah's description of the Old Tongue changes on twitter the other day. 

 

Granted they seem to be changing (through addition and formalization) the OT for the show and the prophecies may or not be included in those changes, but her description seemed (to me anyway) to suggest that one clause might use a masculine form and a second subordinate or dependent clause might use a feminine form (or vice versa).

 

Stylistically, I like the idea of using titles more than pronouns.  "The Dragon Reborn", "Ameresu", "The Champion of Light", etc.   But, I also know that some people dislike that kind of thing. 

 

[JaimAybara]

14 hours ago, Skipp said:

I appreciate that we are getting the "I'll kill him before I let them have him" line

I’m fairly certain this says, “ I’ll kill them before I let him have them.” 
 

[TheDreadReader]

 

[king of nowhere]

8 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

True but I don't know if just changing the pronouns in the prophecies plays all that well with the Sarah's description of the Old Tongue changes on twitter the other day. 

 

Granted they seem to be changing (through addition and formalization) the OT for the show and the prophecies may or not be included in those changes, but her description seemed (to me anyway) to suggest that one clause might use a masculine form and a second subordinate or dependent clause might use a feminine form (or vice versa).

 

Stylistically, I like the idea of using titles more than pronouns.  "The Dragon Reborn", "Ameresu", "The Champion of Light", etc.   But, I also know that some people dislike that kind of thing. 

 

linguistics is a big mess, and it doesn't translate well even among exhisting languages. for example, in italian we have a male and female form for adjectives (not as complicated as it sounds, you just change the last letter). and "the" can be translated with 7 different articles, depending on whether is masculine, feminine, singular/plural.

so, when an english show is trying to pull a trick sentence to hide the gender of the subject, it becomes much more difficult to do so in italian; italian dubs generally either must use overly contrived sentences, or they must intentionally use the wrong adjective.

 

the old tongue is a nightmare of gratuitous punctuation. who knows what they do with gendered words?

[Rose]

3 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

 

I can't seem to click on this. Is the tweet gone?

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, Rose said:

 

I can't seem to click on this. Is the tweet gone?

It is for some reason. It had this new clip.