New clip about the Aes Sedai

[Maximillion]

5 minutes ago, WalterKohl said:

No the reality is that it doesn't fit with how YOU feel she should look, even if your expectations don't match the life she had been living up until the time she is first seen in the books.  

 

Nothing about how I feel.

It's how Robert Jordan described the way she was dressed and it's nothing like what the show has dressed her character in.

 

This from above:

Quote

The wide hood of her cloak framed her face and dark hair, hanging in soft ringlets... her clothes were just as strange.  her cloak was sky-blue velvet, with thick silver embroidery , leaves and vines and flowers, all along the edges. Her dress gleamed faintly as she moved, a darker blue than the cloak, and slashed with cream....A wide belt of woven gold encircled her waist...

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

 

Looks super - just nothing like Morraine.

 

 

I agree with WalterKohl,  The outfit they have given Moiraine for  her 20 years of searching/traveling is much better than riding silks form the books.  Thankfully they also give her wonderful gowns for when the time is appropriate.  We have the best of both worlds here.

[Maximillion]

2 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

I agree with WalterKohl,  The outfit they have given Moiraine for  her 20 years of searching/traveling is much better than riding silks form the books.  Thankfully they also give her wonderful gowns for when the time is appropriate.  We have the best of both worlds here.

 

Sure, they changed the book to make appear more like a warrior.  A Green Ajah.

Fits with the narrative they are clearly trying to push - which is not the books.

[Agitel]

Just now, Maximillion said:

 

Sure, they changed the book to make appear more like a warrior.  A Green Ajah.

Fits with the narrative they are clearly trying to push - which is not the books.

 

Changing the look is one thing, but aside from the stylistic shoulder pads, I wouldn't say they're trying to make her a warrior. More an experienced traveler. 

[Rose]

This is getting tiresome y'all. There's so much new and interesting stuff in this clip and the other promo materials they're dropping, and now Sarah's comments on Twitter which I hadn't seen, and I want to dig into them and analyze and speculate. But I can't because the thread where we're supposed to be discussing these things is full of comments about how this is bad and not like the books and Rafe has ruined wheel of time with his woke agenda.

 

I get it, you don't like the changes. Can you please let the rest of us who are still invested continue to discuss things in peace?

 

We haven't even touched on the map or the angreal yet. This entire thread has been clogged with angst about gender dynamics.

[Jackdaw_Fool]

14 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

They have no reason to still female channelers. Bringing them, allows them to better control them under their leadership.

The Black Ajah, have no reason not to still or kill potential dragons, and every reason to also bring in women to shape them.

Still... What does any of that have to do with what I was talking about? As I've specifically said twice now, I'm referring to women who cannot channel:

"Not even just women who can channel but just women seeking greater political power."

and

"I specifically was bringing attention to the female false dragons who cannot channel"

 

Anyway, to try this again, my point is that the mere possibility the dragon reborn may be female should have profound effect upon the history of the world, due to the the possible usefulness of presenting oneself as a female dragon for non-channeling queens, aspiring rulers, dissidents, etc. (especially when there may be any preference within the population for a female dragon who may not break the world as was being suggested in this thread earlier). And also I can imagine that there must be all sorts of new plotting done by Aes Sedai regarding a possible female dragon. The net result of both of these is that there should be historical changes... major historical events, wars, changed nations, etc. If they don't make these kinds of changes pertaining to there being female false dragons, that seems to me to be poor writing/plotting. In Jordan's Wheel of Time, the emergence of false dragons makes a lot of sense, and the effects of their emergence is nicely thought through with the effects of those events taken into account throughout the world and its history. Will the tv show it has inspired (I think I like calling it Rafe's Spiral Snakey Thing of Time - based on the Amazon logo having removed the wheel, and since it does seem it is going to be quite a bit different than an ordinary adaptation) do the same with a female dragon reborn being a possibility? Or is the female possibility just lip service to certain fans? I hope it's at least the former because I'm still hoping this will be a well thought out and good show despite the changes (and despite my growing fear of disappointment as a fan of the books)...

[Maximillion]

2 minutes ago, Rose said:

This is getting tiresome y'all. There's so much new and interesting stuff in this clip and the other promo materials they're dropping, and now Sarah's comments on Twitter which I hadn't seen, and I want to dig into them and analyze and speculate. But I can't because the thread where we're supposed to be discussing these things is full of comments about how this is bad and not like the books and Rafe has ruined wheel of time with his woke agenda.

 

I get it, you don't like the changes. Can you please let the rest of us who are still invested continue to discuss things in peace?

 

We haven't even touched on the map or the angreal yet. This entire thread has been clogged with angst about gender dynamics.

 

We're all invested in the show or we wouldn't be here.  If I wasn't invested in the show I wouldn't care that it looks like it is being ruined with political and ideological nonsense.  There is also the realisation for those of us very concerned with what we have seen that this was likely the ONE chance for this to be made, and fear it has been completely hijacked.

 

I will tell you what I think of Sarah's comments - I think she is towing the line and will manufacture 'reasons' for everything done.

 

As for the angreal, really don't know why they had to change that either.

 

[Skipp]

7 minutes ago, Rose said:

This is getting tiresome y'all. There's so much new and interesting stuff in this clip and the other promo materials they're dropping, and now Sarah's comments on Twitter which I hadn't seen, and I want to dig into them and analyze and speculate. But I can't because the thread where we're supposed to be discussing these things is full of comments about how this is bad and not like the books and Rafe has ruined wheel of time with his woke agenda.

 

I get it, you don't like the changes. Can you please let the rest of us who are still invested continue to discuss things in peace?

 

We haven't even touched on the map or the angreal yet. This entire thread has been clogged with angst about gender dynamics.

I was quite surprised to see the Angreal!  I wasn't sure if they were gonna give her the one.  I was very excited to see it, a little bigger than I originally thought but it looked solid and aged.  I am looking forward to seeing what they do with other Angreal/Ter'angreal etc.... if they will keep a more uniform look or more diverse.

[Arthellion]

34 minutes ago, Rose said:

This is getting tiresome y'all. There's so much new and interesting stuff in this clip and the other promo materials they're dropping, and now Sarah's comments on Twitter which I hadn't seen, and I want to dig into them and analyze and speculate. But I can't because the thread where we're supposed to be discussing these things is full of comments about how this is bad and not like the books and Rafe has ruined wheel of time with his woke agenda.

 

I get it, you don't like the changes. Can you please let the rest of us who are still invested continue to discuss things in peace?

 

We haven't even touched on the map or the angreal yet. This entire thread has been clogged with angst about gender dynamics.

 

 

I'll say this. I am loving the aescethics and the general vibe we're seeing here. The trolloc in the previous trailer looked monstrous and terrifying and I'm just loving all the vibes.

 

Moraine's outfit is fire.

 

The angreal looks kinda generic but it works. 

 

I'm not sure about the clip as the first one minute of the show though. Feels very tropey and better suited to marketing. I always imagine the first minute would involve Rand in the woods with a dark figure looking down from a distance. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Arthellion

[SinisterDeath]

32 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Still... What does any of that have to do with what I was talking about? As I've specifically said twice now, I'm referring to women who cannot channel:

"Not even just women who can channel but just women seeking greater political power."

and

"I specifically was bringing attention to the female false dragons who cannot channel"

The dragon could channel. Ergo the Dragon Reborn could channel.

[WalterKohl]

32 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I was quite surprised to see the Angreal!  I wasn't sure if they were gonna give her the one.  I was very excited to see it, a little bigger than I originally thought but it looked solid and aged.  I am looking forward to seeing what they do with other Angreal/Ter'angreal etc.... if they will keep a more uniform look or more diverse.

it reminded me more of Rands than hers though, wasn't hers a woman in robes from the book?  either way the "feel" is just what I was thinking in my head for them...  

[TheMountain]

48 minutes ago, Rose said:

 

I get it, you don't like the changes. Can you please let the rest of us who are still invested continue to discuss things in peace?

 

I wish the show would have made that easier for us. Believe me, I'd love to be excited and poring over cool tidbits of information just as much as everyone else.

 

They had to have known that this would divide the fandom. They knew what they were doing and made that choice.

Edited November 4, 2021 by TheMountain

[TheMountain]

11 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

 

I'm not sure about the clip as the first one minute of the show though. Feels very tropey and better suited to marketing. I always imagine the first minute would involve Rand in the woods with a dark figure looking down from a distance. 

 

Apparently the first scene of the show changed from what they originally had (per an interview with Pike). I wonder if they knew this was going to be controversial and decided to dig their heels in and "make a statement."

[Agitel]

It's not always about political statements. Sometimes it's just about framing in an economic manner for a different medium with a limited runtime.

[Rose]

2 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

 

I wish the show would have made that easier for us. Believe me, I'd love to be excited and poring over cool tidbits of information just as much as everyone else.

 

I'm sorry that you feel disillusioned, and I mean this sincerely. It sucks to be disappointed by something you looked forward to. I'm still hoping I won't be, but who knows lol.

 

That being said, I'm just irritated that whenever I bring up a new observation or theory I get replies in the vein of "it doesn't matter, the show will be terrible" (not you specifically @TheMountain, but just a general trend).

[Skipp]

16 minutes ago, WalterKohl said:

it reminded me more of Rands than hers though, wasn't hers a woman in robes from the book?  either way the "feel" is just what I was thinking in my head for them...  

Moiraine's was described as a statue of Dark ivory of a woman in flowing robes.  Rand shiny green stone craved to a fat bald man with a sword. 

 

The one shown in the teaser doesn't really resemble any of the described Angreal.  To me it almost looks like an Egyptian Pharaoh in a Buddhist pose.  But I can't get a great image of it.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Skipp
spelling

[WalterKohl]

7 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Moiraine's was described as a statue of Dark ivory of a woman in flowing robes.  Rand shiny green stone craved to a fat bald man with a sword. 

Yeah when I first saw it I thought it was holding a sword in one hand, now I see its just the hand...   either way, it looks like I think they should look, even if its not the same figure itself...   

[Jackdaw_Fool]

32 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

The dragon could channel. Ergo the Dragon Reborn could channel

Oh. But we're talking about false dragons. See why I'm confused about what you are trying to say? Not all of those can channel (the most powerful ones known to history could, but not all.) Remember Fain tells folks towards the beginning of the first book about the man in Ghealdan claiming to be the dragon and unlike other recent false dragons, this one can channel.

[WalterKohl]

29 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Oh. But we're talking about false dragons. See why I'm confused about what you are trying to say? Not all of those can channel (the most powerful ones known to history could, but not all.) Remember Fain tells folks towards the beginning of the first book about the man in Ghealdan claiming to be the dragon and unlike other recent false dragons, this one can channel.

You know I had forgotten that, they even said at one time that the King Hawkwing was thought to be the Dagon Reborn at the time and he was particularly anti-channeling....  We take for granted the knowledge we have but in the beginning very little was really known about the Dragon Reborn by most, and what was known was wrong....  

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

 

Anyway, to try this again, my point is that the mere possibility the dragon reborn may be female should have profound effect upon the history of the world, due to the the possible usefulness of presenting oneself as a female dragon for non-channeling queens, aspiring rulers, dissidents, etc. (especially when there may be any preference within the population for a female dragon who may not break the world as was being suggested in this thread earlier). And also I can imagine that there must be all sorts of new plotting done by Aes Sedai regarding a possible female dragon. The net result of both of these is that there should be historical changes... major historical events, wars, changed nations, etc. If they don't make these kinds of changes pertaining to there being female false dragons, that seems to me to be poor writing/plotting. 

 

Not disputing your suggestions at all, but I'm just curious. Is there anything in the books that you would consider poor plotting to the same extent? 

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

48 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Oh. But we're talking about false dragons. See why I'm confused about what you are trying to say? Not all of those can channel (the most powerful ones known to history could, but not all.) Remember Fain tells folks towards the beginning of the first book about the man in Ghealdan claiming to be the dragon and unlike other recent false dragons, this one can channel.

In the books, False dragons are male channelers that go insane, and in their state of madness, declare themselves the Dragon. I don't recall Fain stating "unlike other recent false dragons, this one could channel".

 

Presumably, no sane person would want to declare themselves the dragon.

[WalterKohl]

8 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

In the books, False dragons are male channelers that go insane, and in their state of madness, declare themselves the Dragon. I don't recall Fain stating "unlike other recent false dragons, this one could channel".

 

Presumably, no sane person would want to declare themselves the dragon.

In the books not all male channelers were considered false dragons (Thoms nephew for one), i am trying to find the line from about them not all being able to channel but the fandom site agrees:

 

"False Dragons were rare until Gorin Rogad declared himself in 995 NE. Then three years later, in 998 NE, Logain Ablar rose to power. Three more rose in 998 NE, though of these three only Logain Ablar and Mazrim Taim were capable of channeling."  (https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon#False_Dragons)

 

So I think that line was there if more than two of us remember it....  I had forgotten it though...  

[Ralph]

Eotw ch. 3

 

If Fain was perturbed by the news he brought or the upset he had caused, he gave no sign of it. He merely shrugged and laid a skinny finger alongside his nose. “As to that, now, who can say until it is over and done?” He paused with one of his secretive grins, running his eyes over the crowd as if imagining how they would react and finding it funny. “I do know,” he said, too casually, “that he can wield the One Power. The others couldn’t. But he can channel. The ground opens beneath his enemies’ feet, and strong walls crumble at his shout. Lightning comes when he calls and strikes where he points. That I’ve heard, and from men I believe.”
 

[Rose]

Yes they definitely say in EotW that not all false dragons could channel. Logain was the first in recent years, even though there had been other false dragons who couldn't.

 

ETA- Ralph beat me to it.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Rose

[Reader]

7 minutes ago, Rose said:

Yes they definitely say in EotW that not all false dragons could channel. Logain was the first in recent years, even though there had been other false dragons who couldn't.

 

ETA- Ralph beat me to it.

Also in the glossary of EotW it says about false dragons "Over the centuries most have been men unable to channel the One Power, but a few could."