full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[MasterAblar]

34 minutes ago, GanoesParan said:

 

So far, the only times we've seen Mat's dice is in episode 1 there inside the Winespring Inn. 

However, I don't believe that we will have Mat's dice tumbling around inside of his head until season 2. 

 

I'm not even sure how they're gonna portray that exactly.

[Ploodie]

Having finished the 2nd and 3rd episode I can say my opinion increased a little. The actors are growing on me, and I'm resigned to the fact that "the book is the book, and the movie is the movie" - a full and accurate recreation of the book would lose half the audience by the fourth episode.. it's just not feasible. I'm taking it like the latter Harry Potter movies - not really faithful adaptations, but placeholders to kind of "remind you" of the book. While there are many changes, they are at least keeping to the main story progression. I'm willing to stick with it and see where it goes. 

[Chadouken]

One thing I noticed is right after Nynaeve kills the trolloc in the pool, she whips her braid around while staring defiantly into the camera. It's like the showrunners acknowledging her tugging her braid in the books and kinda giving a little shout out to it, but also deciding that it's not going to be needed in the series because the actor can portray Nyn's frustrations with just her body language and facial expressions. It was a nice little Easter egg.

[WheelofJuke]

Moments I LOL'd for all the wrong reasons:

 

1. The wolf licking Perrin's leg.

2. Portraying the Tinkers as dirty wooks.

3. When they jump from the wall of SL and emerge from underwater, either Mat or Rand make a really funny sound.

4. When Rand wordlessly finds and mounts a river log immediately afterwards.

5. No thatched roofs in a village supposedly full of them.

 

Probably a few more...those are the ones that are sticking with me...nitpicky for sure on the roofing, but little details like those matter and clue the viewer in to exactly how "on the mark" things may or may not be. 

 

 

[Windigo]

On 11/20/2021 at 2:43 PM, Akragard said:

And the Wolves. Why are the wolves so small? Did the production team not do any research? Wolves are roughly the size of black bears.

 

They are massive. Those little coyotes or house dogs from episode 3 aren't gonna be taking down a Trolloc or Fade.

There are many different species of wolves, and they are all not the same size. 
North America has at least 4 or 5 (depending on who is counting) subspecies  of wolf.  I am glad they are using real animals and not just CGI, I can accept than in The Third Age the wolves are of one of the smaller subspecies.
The show is using Czechoslovakia Wolf-Dogs, A breed from German Shepard's and Carpathian wolves, at around 26 inches at the shoulders they are not that much smaller than a Grey Wolf where males are  27- 32 inches at the shoulders. 

 

[Windigo]

13 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

See I would agree with that… except the savoir ends up being a man anyway. That same crowd would still complain I feel like. They could have just had a passage about the heroes of the horn to be honest to show that the dragon isn’t always the hero called upon.

 

Sanderson seems to say it’s just because Rafe wanted included in the mystery of the Dragon Reborn. Seems like a bit of a weak reason for the change in my opinion. 
 

If he wanted mystery Rand, Mat, Perrin and even Logan seem sufficient to me. Which makes me wonder why they would include the age component in the details given of the prophecy since that detail knocks Logan out of contention.

I think it has as much to do with making it an ensemble cast, the same reason for focusing on Egwene's braid ceremony thing. In the beginning of the books she is more of an "extra", and companion, we know now what her role is but looking back I really did not build up the same "feelings" for her until later in the series.  So increasing her "role" and possibilities right away creates more of that investment in her. 

[Harad the White]

Another amazing homage to lotr:

 

Lotr: The world is changed...

WoT: The world is broken...

 

Both the first words of the series, and voiced by the fantastic Cate Blanchett and Rosamund Pike

[Harad the White]

There's a closed topic on the "old man." Is this the one who disappears after running with the FD in the intro?

[Harad the White]

Another lotr homage:

 

Tam Al Thor : All we can do is the best we can do with the life that's given us.

 

Gandalf: All we have to decide is what to do with the time that's given us.

 

[DaddyFinn]

3 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

Moments I LOL'd for all the wrong reasons:

 

 

3. When they jump from the wall of SL and emerge from underwater, either Mat or Rand make a really funny sound.

4. When Rand wordlessly finds and mounts a river log immediately afterwards.

 

 

Perrin and Egwene jump from the wall. Rand and Mat break a metal barrier close to the ground. The log is there because why not and ta'veren and so on.

 

Mat is the first one to get to the log.

 

If you are going to nitpick make sure you get things right and focus on what you are watching. ?

[Harad the White]

Elder_haman said:

He killed at least 3 in the book.  Their was zero reason for him to lose the fight in that manner.  He could have won the fight and still been injured. The pattern of changes is plainly there to see, whether you agree or not.

‐----------------

 

To be fair, the Trolloc fighting Tam was twice the size of the Trollocs fighting Lan. 

 

But the point is correct. Tam's relative prowess is reduced in Amazon. Perhaps to both enhance the Trollocs and also to leave the real sword mastery to Lan and other more major characters.

[Harad the White]

Another homage to lotr or is it?:

 

Galadriel: 

And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. 

 

Moiraine:

Ages come and pass leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten.

 

But, did Tolkien write the Galadriel words or Peter Jackson? And did Peter Jackson read WoT before FOTR?

[Elendir]

7 hours ago, Kudzu said:

 

I think I understand the complaint about the lighting, but I don't share it. I think we've been conditioned to think dark and gritty equals realistic, which isn't actually reality. The way it's shot looks real to me. I've spent quite a lot of time hiking through dense forests, they are vivid and colorful and pretty bright, in full daylight. The open forests we see them in wouldn't be much darker than an open field.

 

The too clean argument I don't get at all, look at the hems of the Whitecloak's pants, they are pretty filthy. There are multiple scenes where people are covered in grime, where it makes sense.

 

I can confirm that the forest in the series looks exactly like when I run through it. No lighting changes were made here.

 

Sandstone rocks, a pine forest where you can see into the distance, or, conversely, a deep green spruce forest, which limits the views. Deep dark valleys, or clifs from which you can see into the wider region.

 

For many scenes, I wonder if I ran there or if it just looks similar.

[Gothic Flame]

5 hours ago, Harad the White said:

Another lotr homage:

 

Tam Al Thor : All we can do is the best we can do with the life that's given us.

 

Gandalf: All we have to decide is what to do with the time that's given us.

 

Lol...those aren't homages at all. That's just manipulation. Seversl critics pointed out the attempts to make a viewer think lotr and GoT when watching.

[MasterAblar]

11 hours ago, Windigo said:

I think it has as much to do with making it an ensemble cast, the same reason for focusing on Egwene's braid ceremony thing. In the beginning of the books she is more of an "extra", and companion, we know now what her role is but looking back I really did not build up the same "feelings" for her until later in the series.  So increasing her "role" and possibilities right away creates more of that investment in her. 

Sure I can see that. It’s actually why I kinda wish it wasn’t revealed so early to viewers that Moiraine is searching for the Dragon Reborn. Since the show naturally focuses a lot less on Rand at first, it’s not as obvious he’s the one the Dark One is truly after (although even later on I believe Mat and Perrin are still very much targets).

 

That being said by throwing Egwene into the mix I do feel like we’re missing the independence and assertiveness that characterized Egwene in the books, at least so far. She is not reluctant like Mat and especially Rand, but neither does she choose her own path.  Other than her budding ability to channel I don’t think there’s much that has set her apart really. 
 

More to come though of course so we’ll see. Despite the above I think the actress has done a very good job and her interaction with Rand are on point I feel.

Edited November 23, 2021 by MasterAblar

[WheelofJuke]

Well, THEY didn't get the details right, why am I expected to?! ?

[Scarloc99]

14 hours ago, Windigo said:

LOTR like DUNE took multiple attempts before getting them right, personally I think they are still trying with DUNE. 

I still hope that in the future someone takes up the challenge to animate WOT, I am hoping the forthcoming critical role animated show demonstrates there is an audience for adult orientated fantasy anime and WOT would be a great option for that in the future. no worrying about actors ageing to much during the course of making, you could have a 20 season run and tell all of the story. 

[Elder_Haman]

7 hours ago, Harad the White said:

Elder_haman said:

He killed at least 3 in the book.  Their was zero reason for him to lose the fight in that manner.  He could have won the fight and still been injured. The pattern of changes is plainly there to see, whether you agree or not.

‐----------------

That wasn’t me who said that!

[Pandemonium]

is there episode trailers for episode 4?  can't say I've seen any yet

[DermidAjala]

  

17 hours ago, swollymammoth said:

Has anyone talked about that sacred pool from Episode 1? Because here's the thing, they made way too big a deal about it for it not to be important. And when Nynaeve kills the trolloc, its blood cloud forms the Dragon's Fang/Aes Sedai symbol. 

 

Here's my theory: 

 

It's a saidar eye of the world (How very Rafe it would be to invent one of those, right? After all, there's always 2 eyes, so the existence of one suggests the existance of another. TOTALLY BACKED BY THE LORE YOU GUYS) and at some point towards the end of the first season, they're gonna end up back in Emond's Field so that Egwene can use it to do something like help Rand defeat the trolloc armies which are attacking Fal Dara. Like, Rand is channeling out of the Eye and Egwene is at that pool doing her thing as well. 

 

Calling it right now. 

 

I suspect it's actually used in a scene that was cut from the premiere as part of the women's circle induction and Nynaeve is cleaning it after the fact.

 

---

 

Reasonably happy so far. There was never a chance it was going to be a like for like re-telling and on the whole I can make my peace with some of the character changes / starting points given the differing demands of telling an episodic story. I feel like the essence of the characters is there and that'll do for me as a starting point to build the world on.

 

I do hope they get to go to 10 episodes from series two though because just having a few extra minutes to pause on characters and motivations goes a long way. We're already going to have to have a much more limited cast so having extra time to spend fleshing things out would be great.

 

Curious about how they go about finishing the season. Won't be surprised to see the Green Man cut given he's fundamentally pretty random though I do have a soft spot for his burial scene. I wonder if they only end up confronting Ishy too. The other forsaken go out so quickly and with so little time spent on them that it somewhat undermines them as a collective threat.

[MasterAblar]

If I had to guess I would imagine the confrontating with Ishamael being eliminated. That or he dies for good. Aginor + Ishamael doesn't seem likely. And I doubt they'll have 3 confrontations with Ishamael. Seeing as the most memorable is at Falme I think that will definitely be in the series in some form.

[Beidomon]

2 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

That being said by throwing Egwene into the mix I do feel like we’re missing the independence and assertiveness that characterized Egwene in the books, at least so far. She is neither reluctant like Mat and especially Rand, but neither does she choose her own path.  Other than her budding ability to channel I don’t think there’s much that has set her apart really.

This “turning” has robbed Egwene of any of her naivety that made her charming in the early books. Mo took her out of the TR along with the boys for a very simple reason - her ability to channel. And that was more than enough. And her reaction in the books was perfect: “I’m going to be Aes Sedai!” and “Rand - you can be my warder!” For whatever reason - Rafe and the writers room robbed her of that. And all for “modern sensibilities.” Tough to understand. 

[Beidomon]

5 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

If I had to guess I would imagine the confrontating with Ishamael being eliminated. That or he dies for good. Aginor + Ishamael doesn't seem likely. And I doubt they'll have 3 confrontations with Ishamael. Seeing as the most memorable is at Falme I think that will definitely be in the series in some form.

Yeah I’m almost certain they’re going to replace the first Ishy battle with Aginor and possibly Bal. That’s a good change in my opinion. 

[Windigo]

1 hour ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I still hope that in the future someone takes up the challenge to animate WOT, I am hoping the forthcoming critical role animated show demonstrates there is an audience for adult orientated fantasy anime and WOT would be a great option for that in the future. no worrying about actors ageing to much during the course of making, you could have a 20 season run and tell all of the story. 

That maybe a future possibility. I think the older audience that struggles with animated (myself included) is passing.  To me so much of WoT is in the non-verbal thoughts and "looks",  that I would find animated less able to successfully portray the depth of characters in WoT, but the newer generations like my kids are more able to pick up those clues and feelings in animation than I am.  I have yet to watch any animation where the characters do not feel "flat" and lifeless. 

[Joe B]

I can't believe they didn't highlight Hu and Tad in the show. They did my boys wrong!