tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[Therese Sedai]

5 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

I had the same feeling watching this episode, especially on a rewatch. The micro-expressions these actors pull off are absolutely gorgeous, especially any scene Nynaeve is in and certain moments with Lan. I'm thinking specifically of the hallway scene after the dinner. You can see the love in Lan's eyes for Nynaeve and then literally watch it dim, fade, and vanish as he internally thinks of his responsibilities and fast-approaching death. Incredible.

Yes! The hallway scene was brilliant. Lan and his mashiara. ?

[RhienneAgain]

3 minutes ago, Therese Sedai said:

Do you think the bond will be transferred to Alanna instead of Myrelle? I’m quietly hopeful because Alanna has been such a great character in the show. 

Yes, I think they'll combine Alanna and Myrelle into the same character. 

[VooDooNut]

 

4 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

You missed a great opportunity to point out that both of these warriors were penetrated by shafts...

Well, *technically* I'd say Shaeil is doing a whole 'lotta penetrating in her scene. Boromir is, unfortunately, on the receiving end in his.

Edited December 17, 2021 by VooDooNut
spell gooder

[Vartija]

13 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Yes, that was a great part indeed - parting of knowledge was priceless.

I loved how it showed that Lan had developed a fondness for Rand. He could have let him go there unprepared and fumbling but wanted him to show some backbone. It was also the first time we saw the "crazy" side of Lan that was simmering below the stony surface. I remember how out of nowhere it came. Overall it's one of the funniest scenes in the books imo. I really think the show could use that kind of male bonding and mentoring from Lan. 

 

"He is a man, Leane Sedai," Lan said firmly, "no more, and no less. We are what we are."

 

That scene has terrific power dynamics. Rand comes in trying his best to be impressive but is pretty much torn apart by Siuan and Moiraine, barely holding it together. Yet as we see afterwards, the Aes Sedai are also unsure if pushing him is the right thing to do. Rand also shows his Two Rivers stubbornness in vowing not to be used by anyone. Then think of the contrast in ToM when Siuan and Rand meet for the first time after that encounter... 

 

I guess there's still a chance Rand is summoned by the Amyrlin eventually, but the story seems to be drifting away from the book version of it. 

[dwn]

7 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

Me: Tam should have killed like 3 or 4 Trollocs in the barn. 

Responses: “He’s old, out of practice, and we can’t do everything like it was done in the books.”

 

Me: “A woman going into labor can take out like half a dozen dudes? Multiple of which coordinated their attacks?”

 

Responses: “I’ve seen women do yoga and CrossFit while pregnant.” 
 

? ??

In all fairness, you could rephrase it like:

• A middle-aged soldier-turned-shepherd who hasn't used a sword in 20 years is a bit rusty when fighting giant monsters.
• An exceptionally fit young woman who's been actively fighting over the past several months is--despite being pregnant--still formidable when facing off against typical foot soldiers.

[TheDreadReader]

11 minutes ago, Therese Sedai said:

Do you think the bond will be transferred to Alanna instead of Myrelle? I’m quietly hopeful because Alanna has been such a great character in the show. 

 

I think they skip that and just have it go straight to Nyneave.

 

 

[VooDooNut]

Just now, TheDreadReader said:

 

I think they skip that and just have it go straight to Nyneave.

 

 

I don't think they'll pass up on the opportunity to watch Nynaeve squirm with the discomfort of Lan being bonded with another (another) woman. Having Alanna be the bond-holder is a fascinating idea.

[Jaysen Gore]

19 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I loved how it showed that Lan had developed a fondness for Rand. He could have let him go there unprepared and fumbling but wanted him to show some backbone. It was also the first time we saw the "crazy" side of Lan that was simmering below the stony surface. I remember how out of nowhere it came. Overall it's one of the funniest scenes in the books imo. I really think the show could use that kind of male bonding and mentoring from Lan. 

 

"He is a man, Leane Sedai," Lan said firmly, "no more, and no less. We are what we are."

 

That scene has terrific power dynamics. Rand comes in trying his best to be impressive but is pretty much torn apart by Siuan and Moiraine, barely holding it together. Yet as we see afterwards, the Aes Sedai are also unsure if pushing him is the right thing to do. Rand also shows his Two Rivers stubbornness in vowing not to be used by anyone. Then think of the contrast in ToM when Siuan and Rand meet for the first time after that encounter... 

 

I guess there's still a chance Rand is summoned by the Amyrlin eventually, but the story seems to be drifting away from the book version of it. 

With Amalisa having sent a request for help, I could the Amyrlin and greens and reds show up in FD with an errant Mat and a lot of questions for Moiraine

[flinn]

16 minutes ago, dwn said:

In all fairness, you could rephrase it like:

• A middle-aged soldier-turned-shepherd who hasn't used a sword in 20 years is a bit rusty when fighting giant monsters.
• An exceptionally fit young woman who's been actively fighting over the past several months is--despite being pregnant--still formidable when facing off against typical foot soldiers.

 Thats it, you tell all those women who think being 10 months pregnant in labor is no big deal. If you cant fight while in labor then you are no real woman at all. Look at the Asians, they give birth in the rice paddy fields and just keep right on picking.

[ArrylT]

25 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

With Amalisa having sent a request for help, I could the Amyrlin and greens and reds show up in FD with an errant Mat and a lot of questions for Moiraine

 

While I do not think she was one in the books -although I think Liandrin hinted at it in TGH? - I am wondering if Amalisa could be be a Darkfriend in this show - which would explain two things

 

1 - she's riled up Agelmar before hand which would partially explain the misunderstanding between him and Moiraine

 

2 - She's been convincing him Fal Dara is invincible to help prepare (like happened in Malkier) the downfall of Shienar

 

But thats just my theory atm and not very concrete yet.

[JaimAybara]

16 hours ago, dwn said:

In all fairness, you could rephrase it like:

• A middle-aged soldier-turned-shepherd who hasn't used a sword in 20 years is a bit rusty when fighting giant monsters.
• An exceptionally fit young woman who's been actively fighting over the past several months is--despite being pregnant--still formidable when facing off against typical foot soldiers.

He and Abel do the quarterstaff fighting every year which he is the only one who could beat him which suggests he does stay fit and does do martial arts. And in the books he does kill a handful…so the first part is objectively false. As for the second yeah the maidens are badass, it was cool, but my point isn’t that she shouldn’t be, my point is people keep trying to tell me Tam shouldn’t be. 
 

*What’s more than that, we have now seen Tam young and old wielding a blademaster sword doing hardly anything with it. I haven’t been convinced as a viewer that a heron marked blade is supposed to mean anything significant yet. At this point, it might as well just be a cool makers mark. Nobody even said anything in Fal Dara to Rand.*

Edited December 18, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Skipp]

To everyone commenting on Shaiel fighting while pregnant I would just like to bring up the general discussion of this topic from Lezbi Nerdy's discord.

 

A handful of women from the server told us how pregnancy effected each of them.  What they could do and what they couldn't.  How their pregnancies differed from child to child sometimes depending on how the child was positioned..  Some could walk around with no issues up until their due date, others were bed ridden a month before hand.  Others stay very athletic until the very end.  

 

So while, yes the fight during the cold open was, perhaps, unrealistic we know that different women are affected differently during pregnancy.  But no one in the served was offended by the scene.

 

Also never discount what adrenaline, combined with hormones, combined with a mother trying to protect their child.

[VooDooNut]

3 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Also never discount what adrenaline, combined with hormones, combined with a mother trying to protect their child.

This, but also, it's a fantasy show, right? Heroic character does heroic thing kinda fits the theme. I'm surprised this is really that controversial.

[Mailman]

Blood snow had some moments but was way to over the top, the cape pull was just silly no way could she have generated the force to pull him backwards into the air this is a much larger man in significant plate armour. Just use it to pull him off balance and down dont need the super strength throw. Still comfortably the best combat scene in the series which does not say much.

 

The ways a disappointment.  Pacing is poor literally felt like a couple of minutes till they found the waystone and it lets take a break time. You have to at least suggest that time has passed.

 

Lan caught unaware again at the approach of the trolloc he is absolutely useless as a sentry.

 

Lan teleports out of the house?

 

The love triangle with Rand Perrin and Egwene. NO NO NO. It also damages Perrin as a character because now the wife they had him kill in the first episode was only married because Rand started dating Egwene. Just terrible.

 

The blight looked terrible.

 

I dont really know what to say about the scene between Moiraine and the Lord of Fal Dara that was just strange. Basucally a complete 180 from the books to how they where received.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Mailman

[MasterAblar]

Wheel of Time fans are nothing if not obsessively detail oriented. Would Shaiel be able to fight off several Companions at once? Is there any proof she wouldn't be able to? How does her being in labor affect that (keeping in mind a number of people here have no idea what that's like)? Wouldn't each labor be different depending on the woman and the situation?

 

I have no clear answer, but I'll simply say that, if it is a slight bit over the top, I'd rather that than it being underwhelming. The Aiel are meant to be incredible badass warriors. Hold back your readers instincts and enjoy it for being an introduction to the lethality of the Aiel is my 2 cents.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

4 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

4 hours ago, Vartija said:

I assume she would have sensed another woman channelling. If she saw what we saw, ie. a trolloc magically bouncing off of Rand & Egwene, then she must have realized that a man channelled. 

Or one of the things she realizes after the fact, having too busy at the time to realize it wasn't one of the girls.

The screen appears to show Egwene channeling (and she explicitly apologises for doing so) both in the original and the flashback (which adds the Rand channel).   She might have realised Egwene's channel was too weak to throw the trolloc but it is unlikely.  More likely she knew one of the boys could channel since leaving the two rivers (her book certainty was due to Egwene's horse not needing to have the fatigue healing applied when no woman had channelled to do it).

[Mailman]

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Wheel of Time fans are nothing if not obsessively detail oriented. Would Shaiel be able to fight off several Companions at once? Is there any proof she wouldn't be able to? How does her being in labor affect that (keeping in mind a number of people here have no idea what that's like)? Wouldn't each labor be different depending on the woman and the situation?

 

I have no clear answer, but I'll simply say that, if it is a slight bit over the top, I'd rather that than it being underwhelming. The Aiel are meant to be incredible badass warriors. Hold back your readers instincts and enjoy it for being an introduction to the lethality of the Aiel is my 2 cents.

I have no problem with making them badass it would have been a good scene I think if you removed

• the exaggerated cloak pull 
• the sequence where she flipped the guy over in a summersault using the spears very accommodating stuntman there.
• and pulling the blade out of her side would have been really hard from that positioning, simply have her use a dagger of her own to strike him.

Those small changes would have made the scene much better.

[WhiteVeils]

More thoughts.

 

Some reasons why Moiraine sent the Red Ajah after Mat:

1. Fulfilling her vow.  She really believes the darkness is in him and he would join the Dark One if he were the Dragon Reborn.  If he were, then she and all the Two Rivers folks will die at the EOTW.  She knows the Red Ajah will not stop until they find and gentle or kill him...completing her vow to kill them herself if they were to join the Dark One.
2. Making sure he's found by the Tower no matter what.  If he can't channel, the Reds, no doubt, will stop at nothing to find him, imagining he could. They wouldn't harm him (much) since he can't channel, but Liandrin would not exactly just let him go again either. They'd keep him as a bargaining chip, preventing him from getting into trouble, and then later Suian or other allies couldd figure out what to do with him. 
3. He'd prove himself a darkfriend if he were.  If he was a darkfriend or had other kinds of 'dark power', the Red Ajah would not be gentle with capturing him. If he had a dark power, he'd expose it during their capture, at which point they'd kill him as the threat he is.
4. Getting out from Liandrin's blackmail.  By turning over Mat to the Reds, she proves to Liandrin that she does not have any blackmail-able material to hold over her...or Suian.  Liandrin knows the most about Mat, at least she featured his name the most, so maybe his sacrifice will mean that she won't wonder about the others.

These don't exactly paint Moiraine in a good light to me.  But it is politically expedient to her.  

[Jaysen Gore]

2 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

More thoughts.

 

Some reasons why Moiraine sent the Red Ajah after Mat:

1. Fulfilling her vow.  She really believes the darkness is in him and he would join the Dark One if he were the Dragon Reborn.  If he were, then she and all the Two Rivers folks will die at the EOTW.  She knows the Red Ajah will not stop until they find and gentle or kill him...completing her vow to kill them herself if they were to join the Dark One.
2. Making sure he's found by the Tower no matter what.  If he can't channel, the Reds, no doubt, will stop at nothing to find him, imagining he could. They wouldn't harm him (much) since he can't channel, but Liandrin would not exactly just let him go again either. They'd keep him as a bargaining chip, preventing him from getting into trouble, and then later Suian or other allies couldd figure out what to do with him. 
3. He'd prove himself a darkfriend if he were.  If he was a darkfriend or had other kinds of 'dark power', the Red Ajah would not be gentle with capturing him. If he had a dark power, he'd expose it during their capture, at which point they'd kill him as the threat he is.
4. Getting out from Liandrin's blackmail.  By turning over Mat to the Reds, she proves to Liandrin that she does not have any blackmail-able material to hold over her...or Suian.  Liandrin knows the most about Mat, at least she featured his name the most, so maybe his sacrifice will mean that she won't wonder about the others.

These don't exactly paint Moiraine in a good light to me.  But it is politically expedient to her.  

I am a Raiders fan. Just win, Baby.

[Sabio]

10 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

The screen appears to show Egwene channeling (and she explicitly apologises for doing so) both in the original and the flashback (which adds the Rand channel).   She might have realised Egwene's channel was too weak to throw the trolloc but it is unlikely.  More likely she knew one of the boys could channel since leaving the two rivers (her book certainty was due to Egwene's horse not needing to have the fatigue healing applied when no woman had channelled to do it).

I watched the scene again and I couldn't see Moiraine, it happened so fast she might of been distracted or resting,  So it's possible she missed what happened.

[Hudson]

While still many faults in this episode it was the best by far.  Which is sad in a way but give me hope in another.  The scene at the beginning with Tigraine was awesome.  I see all the comments about it being over the top.  I didn’t feel that way.  This is our introduction to the Aiel.  These people are bred for war.  Raised to it from birth.  An Aiel mother protecting her unborn child.  Her child happens to be the Dragon Reborn.  This is Rand’s mom.  This is his DNA.  If the fight choreography is what we can expect from future fights with Rand…I’m excited.  The fight scenes up to this one were terrible.  She was the first character I CARED about.  I felt her just wanting a quiet place to birth her child.  I couldn’t imagine being alone, beset by enemies and about to have a baby….but yet I could because the actress delivered!  I hope she’s in it more in some fashion.

 

The only thing I found objectionable was Lan/Nynaeve.  Why NOT have Lan give her his, “I only have death to give…I am poorer than the meanest farmer” speech.  And her response about only wanting the man.  Why have to jump into bed together.  It’s not bad…I just think it would have been more meaningful to take a little more time.  I would have like them to separate in the halls then Nynaeve seek our Moirainne and allow Moirainne to tell the back story of Lan.  Felt awkward him having to tell it himself.  Also would have liked a tad more.  20 elite warriors escaping with the baby.  10-15 of them dying.  The rest raising him from birth to be the ultimate warrior.  I guess it would have been a little laughable considering we haven’t seen much warrior from Lan.

 

I found the way Agalmar greeted them to be ridiculous.  It is not only against the book it seems to be the continued “incompetent men” theme which is getting tiring.  There is a good natured ribbing between the men and women in the series but it just feels like it continues to go overboard.  All the women are saving the day and the men are buffoonish.  The series was heavily weighted to powerful women and that is COOL…why feel the need to make men look stupid.  It’s just tiresome.

 

Nynaeve continually to channel in ways that it should take her years to master is tiresome.  

 

A little disappointed in the Min scene.  Why not have her see what she saw in the books?

 

As a book reader I got the “void” reference during the nighttime bow shooting but I don’t think any non-readers got.  A 1 minute scene with Tam and Rand could have established that.

 

Anyway, I’ll leave it at this…I’m grateful it got so much better….but it still isn’t great.  I’m just worried Rafe may be too much of a lightweight for this material.  Too much summer blockbuster when we need Oscar nominated drama.  Dunno….my $0.02.

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Hudson

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

1 hour ago, RhienneAgain said:

Tigraine - having just given birth for the second time I really disliked the portrayal of a woman in late stage labour being able to take part in combat so spectacularly. It belittles what women go through when giving birth and - I may be wrong - but reeks of a man writing this without consulting women.

Is it clear this is late stage labour?  Even if we view the part where she lowers the veil as a contraction it can be early stage while she is fighting and the birth is then brought on by the stabbing.

23 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Blood snow had some moments but was way to over the top, the cape pull was just silly no way could she have generated the force to pull him backwards into the air this is a much larger man in significant plate armour. Just use it to pull him off balance and down dont need the super strength throw. Still comfortably the best combat scene in the series which does not say much.

Not force, momentum and grip.  They were running full speed in opposite directions and all of the resulting impact was applied well above his center of gravity while his feet were not in contact with the ground / on icy ground.  Try running into a bar at shoulder height and see if you fall over backwards.

Remedial practice at "heron wading in the rushes" for this companion if he had survived.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

7 minutes ago, Sabio said:

19 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

The screen appears to show Egwene channeling (and she explicitly apologises for doing so) both in the original and the flashback (which adds the Rand channel).   She might have realised Egwene's channel was too weak to throw the trolloc but it is unlikely.  More likely she knew one of the boys could channel since leaving the two rivers (her book certainty was due to Egwene's horse not needing to have the fatigue healing applied when no woman had channelled to do it).

I watched the scene again and I couldn't see Moiraine, it happened so fast she might of been distracted or resting,  So it's possible she missed what happened.

But she certainly did not miss Egwene's apology.  Actually since you missed my mention of it in the section you quoted I suppose it is possible that she did but I suspect she is more used to weighing every word said due to the AS politics / 3 oaths / 

Spoiler

trying to catch black ajah in a lie

than you are. 

[Blackbyrd]

1 hour ago, Dead Warder said:

It was as if Lan was seeing some of him in Rand, a father teaching a son some wisdom. It won't be captured in the show but it will forever in the pages. This was a very good call out, nicely done. I'm gonna go back and re-read that again.

It always seemed more of an older brother type thing to me but definitely Lan & Rand had a sense of being kindred in spirit thing going on- though I tend to think season 2 will have some Lan, Rand & Perrin in Fal Dara. However, I do agree that it was a missed opportunity this season. This lack of subtle character beats is probably my main complaint about season 1. Another instance is in this episode is Agelmar not being fond of Aes Sedai- not a big deal but him being short with Moraine is a touch wrong because he would treat the Aes Sedai who has Lan as a warder with the utmost respect. However, Perrin's grunting during the EF4 conference was a totally spot on and subtle character beat so it's something i definitely think they can get better with as seasons progress

[dwn]

1 hour ago, JaimAybara said:

He and Abel do the quarterstaff fighting every year which he is the only one who could beat him which suggests he does stay fit and does do martial arts. And in the books he does kill a handful…so the first part is objectively false. As for the second yeah the maidens are badass, it was cool, but my point isn’t that she shouldn’t be, my point is people keep trying to tell Tam shouldn’t be. 

Tam still hasn't used a sword or been in a real fight in 20 odd years. So we don't get to see him cut down several trollocs, almost certainly due to time/budget constraints--that hardly means someone is trying to make him less "cool". The important part of that scene is that Tam 1) has a sword and 2) gets injured.

Edited December 18, 2021 by dwn