tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[Meskell]

12 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

 

Check the x-ray bonus material

In reality, anything in x ray or bonus content doesn’t actually count. Same as when it is taking show runners, actors and writers to explain things that are happening. 
 

The show has to stand on its on two feet, during the main programming, as that is how 99% will experience it. 

[DaddyFinn]

20 minutes ago, Meskell said:

In reality, anything in x ray or bonus content doesn’t actually count. Same as when it is taking show runners, actors and writers to explain things that are happening. 
 

The show has to stand on its on two feet, during the main programming, as that is how 99% will experience it. 

And still Fain is using the leaf.

[Meskell]

36 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

And still Fain is using the leaf.

But until it is shown in the actual show that he has used the leaf, the only safe assumption for 99% of viewers is that he is a channeler or has one with him. 
 

I know that you can literally see in the picture he has used it but if it wasn’t deemed integral enough by show runners to include in the main show, then it isn’t ‘canon’ until it is brought into the show. 

[notpropaganda73]

4 hours ago, Arthellion said:

Thinking through Lack of Lan and Rand…I think we will see that start of season 2.

 

with only episodes this season has been packed with things. While ymmv on those choices, I think moving Lan and Rands relationship to season 2 works. Since also we’ll likely be getting Morgase and Elayne in season 2.

 

I actually wonder if Rand will actually save Moiraine in some way. And Lan feels indebted to him as a result? Nothing too blatant, but it would be a nice character motivation I think. Regardless, as disappointing as it's been not to hear Lan call Rand a sheepherder yet, I am hopeful we will get this at the beginning of S2 at the very least. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[notpropaganda73]

1 minute ago, Meskell said:

But until it is shown in the actual show that he has used the leaf, the only safe assumption for 99% of viewers is that he is a channeler or has one with him. 
 

I know that you can literally see in the picture he has used it but if it wasn’t deemed integral enough by show runners to include in the main show, then it isn’t ‘canon’ until it is brought into the show. 

 

I 100% agree with this view. You can't throw key plot points or explainers in to "added bonus content" and then throw your hands up and say "we explained everything!" The show needs to tell us these things on it's own. It's not easy without exposition at times, but imagine for example that Lan's entire backstory was "bonus content". It would be rightly ridiculed. Things like the leaf, saidin and saidar, the Ogier backstory - these are nice to know that they have these animated shorts or bonus pictures showing all these things, but for example my partner hasn't watched any of them and she hasn't a clue who or what Loial is or why he's around.

 

That's a big failing of the show in my opinion, and I'm generally enjoying the season.

[Gothic Flame]

6 hours ago, Chivalry said:

This bothered me as well...a completely unnecessary change, unless the point is to show another delusional male in a leadership capacity.

You've had 7 episodes of this. 

[DaddyFinn]

Bonus material is stuff that's either cut completely or not explained yet. I bet the avendesora leaf is the latter. We got Rand&Tam pic in episode 1 and the scene (not the exact one but from the same journey to the village) in episode 7.

[FanofKnotai]

What is making me dislike the show sooooo much is not the changes for compression or even so much the stupid character and story changes (so many, for what?) they’ve made. It’s the changes they could have gone without that are really getting under my skin. 
 

why make Algemar rude to an Aes Sedai? In the book he was extremely respectful  of Moiraine.  His respectfulness showed how revered Aes Sedai were in some lands in contrast to the distrust and outright hatred of other lands.

 

Why change the way the Blight Looked?  The Blight was a way to show how the DO twisted things that were supposed to be beautiful. Showing trees that were full of leaves and looked nice from afar but up close were rotting and diseased couldn’t have been too hard for production. They way they portrayed it made it look like the forest was simply burned. Hopefully they expand in the final episode. 
 

Moiraine saying Mat was sure to side with the DO….I’m not even gonna start on that. ??

Can’t use the OP in the ways because it would be twisted?! Why even have him say that line if you’re gonna be using the OP in the ways anyway?! But Loial it’s the only way we can open the way gate! ?
 

If the waygate still used the trefoil leaf, what would change to the story they’ve constructed?! Nyn can still save the day from Machin Shin with her super powers while Mo searches for the leaf. 

Machin Shin completely scaled down to suit their needs with the whole DR mystery ?

 

Where the h*** is Loial?! Did he get lost on the way to his rooms after Mo and Al’s battle of sarcasm. Maybe he’s appreciating the stark beauty of the keep?

[Sabio]

I think the "you can't use power in the Ways" they said was because it would attract the Balck Wind.  The plan was to get to the way gate, use the power to open it, and get out before the Black Wind showed up.

 

Moiraine says what she believes, she thinks that Mat was drawn to the dagger and that the dagger has left a taint in him.  Now is she right he was drawn to the dagger?  But I suspect the whole it's good Mat isn't here thing was just to explain why she wasn't worried he was left behind because the actor left.  Because in reality she should have been worried the dragon may have been like screw this I'm outta here.  So you come up with the darkness excuse to explain why she isn't concerned.

[Sabio]

One thing I noticed after the second watching.  It's night and Moiraine is looking over the balcony as Tarwain's Gap.  You see alot of campfires in the distance.  I assume they are good guys because Lan and Moiraine never comment on them or seem worried and the next day there are no trollocs out there.  Was I seeing things?

 

Now I'm sure an oops moment is you see Moiraine and Rand walking to the blight with no one in the gap and no signs of a bunch of camp fires of being there.  

Edited December 18, 2021 by Sabio

[TheDreadReader]

5 hours ago, Meskell said:

In reality, anything in x ray or bonus content doesn’t actually count. Same as when it is taking show runners, actors and writers to explain things that are happening. 
 

The show has to stand on its on two feet, during the main programming, as that is how 99% will experience it. 

 

The flipside of that argument is that applies to book reader's knowledge framing or forming questions about the show.   If we can only evaluate the show on what is shown then book-related stuff can be logically excluded as well.

 

Personally, I don't draw hard lines on stuff like this but consistency is a good thing.

 

The trefoil leaf is a good example of this.  It is really important from a book-knowledge perspective because book readers know stuff about the ways and about how they are used later.  But, that knowledge is not relevant to the story they've told so far except, perhaps, as an open question about how Fain used the ways.   But, if the show doesn't consider that information relevant and has chosen not to explain it... how important is it really?

 

My answer is simple here.   The extras show that Fain has a trefoil shaped item.   It is probably how he gained access to the ways.  That makes enough sense to me now that I don't have to spend too much time thinking about it.   And, we'll have to see how relevant or important it is in the future.

 

 

 

[Skipp]

4 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

I 100% agree with this view. You can't throw key plot points or explainers in to "added bonus content" and then throw your hands up and say "we explained everything!" The show needs to tell us these things on it's own. It's not easy without exposition at times, but imagine for example that Lan's entire backstory was "bonus content". It would be rightly ridiculed. Things like the leaf, saidin and saidar, the Ogier backstory - these are nice to know that they have these animated shorts or bonus pictures showing all these things, but for example my partner hasn't watched any of them and she hasn't a clue who or what Loial is or why he's around.

 

That's a big failing of the show in my opinion, and I'm generally enjoying the season.

Unless it is similar to episode 1 where we had the xray picture of the Fever conversation but didn't actually see it until episode 7.  It is very possible we get this as a flash back.

 

Was it not fairly obvious that Moiraine asked him to read the guide post in the ways?  Because that is what happened in the episode.

[flinn]

 Why in the world would Rand want to train with an incompetent Aes Sedai errand boy? He should bring Tam back and let Tam teach him. Then Aes Sedai errand boy can run off with Nynaeve and continue his "I am a lover not a fighter" trope.

[notpropaganda73]

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

Unless it is similar to episode 1 where we had the xray picture of the Fever conversation but didn't actually see it until episode 7.  It is very possible we get this as a flash back.

 

Was it not fairly obvious that Moiraine asked him to read the guide post in the ways?  Because that is what happened in the episode.

Yes - but why is Loial needed to read the guide post, what are the Ways, were they built with the One Power, is it only Ogier that can navigate the Ways, are Ogier common in this world, why haven't we seen more of them, are they all like Loial, what is Loial's reason for going with them etc etc etc. She was unimpressed with the most recent episode to be honest, that is just one element of it. 

 

We all know this stuff as book readers, and as @TheDreadReader mentions above maybe they just feel these things aren't important for the show, but we can hardly say they have explained or made clear who or what Loial's function in the story is. This is just one example of things that, imo, the show has not done a good job of laying foundations for. It has done other things really well, but there is a lot in the show that is thrown in and not explained (at least as yet). Another example is the cold open, I absolutely loved it, but I know exactly what is happening. They haven't mentioned the DR being born on the slopes of Dragonmount at any stage of the show to my memory, so why should anyone without that knowledge really care about what is happening there, at least in terms of the larger narrative? 

 

I don't really have too much of an issue at the minute with how Fain used the Ways as I expect we are getting a flashback sequence which shows us what he has been up to the whole season. 

[TheDreadReader]

49 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Moiraine says what she believes, she thinks that Mat was drawn to the dagger and that the dagger has left a taint in him.  Now is she right he was drawn to the dagger?  But I suspect the whole it's good Mat isn't here thing was just to explain why she wasn't worried he was left behind because the actor left.  Because in reality she should have been worried the dragon may have been like screw this I'm outta here.  So you come up with the darkness excuse to explain why she isn't concerned.

 

Moiraine's statement is consistent with how the show has constructed Mat's character from episode 1.

 

Think back to episode 1.  Mat loses his money at gambling.  Based on Rand and Perrin's conversation he lost a good bit that day.  In response to losing that money he goes to Danya(?) and we later see him fencing a bracelet to Fain that we saw on her wrist.  Implication is that he stole it. 

 

Following his selling of the bracelet, we see Perrin and Rand giving Mat money that would have negated the "need" for stealing the bracelet but he still stole it. 

 

In SL, he goes and finds the dagger and secretly takes it.

 

Episode 6, Moiraine intervenes and separates him from the dagger.  In the process of that Rand and the viewer sees a "darkness" coming out of Mat.  Rand comments on it in his small talk with Moiraine.

 

Here when Moiraine says "There's a darkness in him" which darkness is she referring to?  The darkness that causes him to steal when he has reason to suspect that Perrin and Rand would help him with money?   The darkness that makes him take the dagger in SL?  Or, the remnants of the darkness that Rand and the viewer see Moiraine take out of him from having the dagger?

 

I think regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the characterization choices for Mat, they did build a logical structure for the "darkness" line starting from episode 1.  (The same can be said for the Perrin love triangle thing.)

 

I don't really see it as an excuse for her as much as I see her responding to how they characterized Mat.

 

 

 

[elteryon]

10 hours ago, Sabio said:

She was pregnant, so it was like two people pulling him.  She also had a Ta'veren in her belly so the pattern also tugged at him.

 

10 hours ago, Mailman said:

Lol yeah that extra 5kg of un assisting belly weight of course makes all the difference, my bad.

The prophecies surrounding The Dragon Unborn are even harder to interpret than the Karaethon Cycle...who knows what they are capable of.

[Maximillion]

Watching the episode again something jumped out that I did not pick up on first time around.

 

When in the Ways Morraine says they have another day to go , 'at least', to the Eye of The World, just before they rest and then get attacked. They quickly find the nearest exit to Far Dara, yet the journey from Fal Dara to the Eye is also a day.  

That makes no sense - why spend a day in the Ways when it's a day from Far Dara anyway?  Surely the destination should always have been Far Dara if that were the case?

It's the kind of plot hole that annoys me because it shows a lack of depth to the writing.

 

[MasterAblar]

If I remember correctly, in the books Moiraine really didn't want to use the power while in the Ways. Not because it would attract Machin Sin but because the Ways corrupt everything and when she used the One Power it was shown to be affected by the Ways.

[FanofKnotai]

I keep reading comments about the Tigraine scene being over the top (and of course discussions about physics and laws of nature are silly in a fantasy series). But I didn’t think it was over the top ? I just thought it was too dang long??‍♂️  I mean ok she’s a badass Aiel (even though she was unveiled while killing…probably because she only adopted the culture and wasn’t raised with it…in the books Aiel would leave their entire bodies naked if the only cloth they had was needed for the veil). But couldn’t she have dispatched those six dudes quicker so we could have more story in the episode? Maybe a flashback of Tam teaching Rand the void. Since we’re doing flashbacks this episode anyway? ??‍♂️ 

[fra85uk]

Overall:

 

Superb: Cold open 

 

Good: Rand realizing he is the Dragon, Min visions, Rand with Min, the ways

 

Not convincing: lord Agelmar being rude to Moraine, Lan-nyn scenes

 

Bad: love triangle scene, Mat issues (but i Justify them for this mess)

 

In conclusion, i say that this is the best episode so far and they should  better deliver a Great finale.

 

8/10

[DigificWriter]

12 hours ago, LoRd PyrO said:

And to think I waited decades to be THIS disappointed

 

If you don't want to be disappointed with the show, don't be.

 

It takes far more energy to criticize something than it does to enjoy something.

[FanofKnotai]

19 hours ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

My understanding of much of the pushback against show detractors has been that we aren't ignoring the books enough. "Take the show on its own merits" is all well and good, but as an adaptation, it calls attention to the original by its very existence. Critiquing via comparison is just another means of critique, no more valid or invalid than anything else. It's not the end all be all method of determining the show's quality, but it is a vector across which the show stands to be measured. 

 

I think this is doubly true because so much of the enjoyment that show-lovers get out of WoTTV is derived from seeing aspects of the original represented on screen. So people who like the show get to say, "Wasn't it cool when X thing from the book happened on screen" but detractors are largely dismissed for expressing the opposite sentiment. 

 

This invitation for show detractors to disentangle their feelings about the show from their relationship to the original books is something that show lovers throw out frequently but largely don't adhere to themselves. 

You are so right. Promoters are allowed to revel in the sameness when it suits. But Detractors are not allowed to condemn the differences likewise. It’s hypocritical.

 

I personally am leaning heavily towards the detractor camp (pratically standing in the middle). But there are changes I’ve liked in the show. 

[FanofKnotai]

23 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

It takes far more energy to criticize something than it does to enjoy something.

Strongly disagree. In this context. It’s much harder to just go with the flow because of how drastic and numerous the changes have been. 

[NetNightmare]

22 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Maybe they discussed it for some time before they left? Not everything has to be told or shown to the audience

and not everything have to be filled by the audience... if something is not there they didn't deem it important, so either is really not important or they simply screwed ... if I have to discard book knowledge to enjoy the show then you don't need it either to fill gaps or explain what has not been explained

[Gothic Flame]

12 hours ago, LoRd PyrO said:

I concur; it feels like Rafe is just using Wot to write his own story. And to think I waited decades to be THIS disappointed.... I'm still hopeful (silly me) that S2 redeems this fiasco

I strongly suggest that you don't watch at all. You're not going to get the book from someone that has clearly said he wasn't going by the book. Characterizations are less than adequate, but seem to be regarded as so since this is a "reinvention of the Wheel." 

Rather than getting all disappointed and suffer negative emotion...and vainly hope for that one episode to think it's all worth it, read the book instead.