tv show spoilers S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[Agitel]

40 minutes ago, phoenixtrinity said:

Sadly, at this point I can only imagine the folks who hate the show (not just dislike it) would accept nothing less than a page-for-page transcription from book to screen.

 

I've been a big apologist of the show, but I really think this is unfair. Book purists whined about LotR. Book purists whined about GOT. But not all things are equal. As an apologist for this show I can still admit they are taking quite a broad license with the adaptation, much more than either LotR or GOT, imho. I can certainly imagine something closer that's still far from a page-for-page transcription.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Agitel

[Flamen]

Moiraine: "I heard a tale of a many headed Dragon." Looks like the show will have multiple DRs.

Amazon could make crossover with LOTR for season 3.

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

3 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Yeah, my mind is still in the "it's not like the books!" processing phase.

 

Same. Usually can shake it off on my second viewing and enjoy the episode more as a “viewer.”

 

 

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

5 minutes ago, dorotea said:

Hmm, I did not get it . Care to elaborate what you think was happening with this CGI?

They’ve shown the taint intertwining and flowing WITH Saidin. In this case, the evil of SL flowed AGAINST the one power. Almost overcoming it.

 

that’s the impression I got anyone.

[SinisterDeath]

I liked the Episode, if anything I was disappointed by how hyped up it was.

I'd probably rank the episodes like...

 

1st Place

Episode 4.

 

2nd Place

Episodes 6, 5, 3.

 

3rd Place

Episode 2

 

4th Place

Episode 1.

 

 

Also, I can't believe no one's said it yet.

 

We got to see boobs.

 

[themann1086]

Let's goooo 

• Young Siuan! So happy to see that, did some good world building too (Tear hates channelers)
• "The Watcher of the Seals, the Flame of Tar Valon" yesssss
• Logain is amazing
• Also amazing, Siuan calmly seeing through him
• "kill me... Kill me! KILL MEEEE!" Chills
• Liandrin is so good haha
• "On your knees" yes Mother
• Hah, Lan found the boys I see.
• Rand draws the sword and is immediately disarmed and pinned by Lan, lol
• Venom!Mashadar is interesting. Definitely worked for this scene!
• Glory to the Builders!
• Hi Seanchan and Aiel, I see you referenced!
• One of Moiraine's eyes and ears got a message to her about Perrin and Egwene, love to see that
• The painting!! Love that, very clever
• MY SHIP IS CANON???
• "On your knees" oh my godddddd
• I am completely fine with Moiraine doubting the Prophecies (or at least how accurate the details are) but I feel like the show needs to give us a reason for her to mistrust them so. WAFO I guess!
• Siuan having dreams about the Eye is less abrupt than "I heard a story about someone else who heard that the Dark One plans to blind the Eye". At least we're getting first hand plot direction
• Moiraine bringing out the big blackmailing guns with Liandrin
• The exile scene! The Oath Rod! Moiraine's wording of the oath! Ahhh
• The Waygate! Everyone back together again ❤
• "I didn't trust you before. Now I... well-" lmao couldn't say it could you Moiraine!
• Definitely creepy. Decent start, excited to see how this continues
• Mat. Mat no. Mat get in the Ways. MAT!
• For the record, while I was shocked by Mat not coming with, my fiancé thought it was obvious. Book knowledge blinded me!

Cannot freaking wait for next week's episode 

[Mnemosyne]

27 minutes ago, thievingsackofpotatoes said:

I took this as a sign from Mo’s eyes and ears not Egwene. Do think it was a bit rushed though.

 

Ohhhh you're totally right, not sure why I missed that!

[Agitel]

I expect Loial to still be needed as a guide in the Ways, hence his presence. We may get a bit more exposition as they travel.

 

I loved the Seanchan reference.

 

One thing I will add is that the EotW is really a kind of confusing book in itself. It's hard to go back to being a first time reader, but I think to the first time reader there were a lot of concepts introduced that were presented in a confused manner or in a manner that gave the wrong impression. I think the show is leaning into that on some things. We don't know what the Dark One really is (do we even learn that Ba'alzamon isn't the Dark One until the end of TDR? And even then some people miss that.) We don't really know much at all about the Dragon Reborn.

[Frenata]

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

do we even learn that Ba'alzamon isn't the Dark One until the end of TDR? And even then some people miss that

 

IIRC it's alluded/implied as early as TGH but not confirmed until TDR.

[Indil]

Overall is fine. I guess Mat got left behind because of the recast, but I hope there is a better way to do it in the show. The entire world is going to overrun by Trollacs and Mat saying "nah" feels out of character for me. Don't like what they have done with Loial. The actor is great, but he barely has any character building at all. I mean, the show doesn't even explain what an Ogier is. We may get to know more about Loial and Rand and their friendship when they travel along the ways. But I have hoped the same thing last week.

 

I guess DO being sealed at the Eye is a misdirection, Shayol Ghul surely cannot be cut.

 

No direct quote of the Prophecy yet, no talking Ishy, no mention of the heron on the blade (Lan doesn't even comment on it when Rand points it at him), no mention of the danger of learning the Open Power without guidance. Sure, book to show adaption cannot be 1-to-1 and blah blah. Yet it still makes me sad.

 

I like Logain in Ep4 and Siuan in Ep6, and think Steppin in Ep5 is unnecessary, but I really miss Rand's adventure. Since the DR will be revealed next episode, I'd say Rand's simple shephard stage wasn't really flashed out in the show, we get some moments here and there, but most time Rand is only a side character. And people needs to feel attached to him before he begin to grow too hard.

 

Find Moiraine's line about "daughter of the river" when she swear on the oath rod is a bit weird. That's certainly not something to be said between "enemies". Did Moiraine make a ward around her and Siuan or was she whispering? The reds were literally just to the left of Siuan. Either way, other people can see her mouth moving without noise or at least notice a period of silence. Don't know how to make it unsuspicious to other sisters.

 

Another random thing I'm thinking is Rafe's comment that people don't really trust the prophecies since they are so old. But then would anyone believe Rand is the true DR even after he pulled out callandor or start fulfilling other prophecies?

[The Purple Ajah]

I am pretty sure that the final scene was due to Barney Harris's departure. I can't really think why they would separate Mat from the rest otherwise, especially since he was Healed early, which frees up a lot of his TGH storyline. They were using the same footage of Mat a couple of times, or at least that seemed to be the case.

[dorotea]

I actually liked the episode, of course all for the wrong reasons. ? Was diligently spotting the Sitters of all Ajahs and enjoying their various dresses and styles. Amyrlin had most amazing hairdo of course and great jewelry on Moraine. If you stop listening to what they are saying or at least only listen to the cattiness of the dialogue it is fun. Moraine actually has more chemistry with Liandryn than Siuan but that’s my take, I think she craves being punished and dear old Amyrlin is too soft on her. And yes! Laundromat got her blonde braids!

[Arthellion]

Ngl I loved the first four episodes but the past two have sucked for me.

 

These aren't the characters I care about. I like Moraine well enough..but we've had two whole episodes with barely any time happening for Rand/Mat/Perrin

 

Such a waste of  time. I'm very frustrated. I'll give them until season 2 but...just ugh. Very disappointed that it seems it's just going to focus on Moraine as the focal point. 

[Owayn The Traveller]

It’s just not very good. I love the books and while I’d like something closer to it, I’m a realist and was expecting changes. 
Changes that made the story play better on screen but it hasn’t been that way so far. 
Sone of the changes make little sense. 
For example, why change the ways like that. It was made by the power but you dint need to use the power to use it. Really sad that the imagery of the Avensdora wasn’t used. How do the shadowspawn use them now? How does Fain talk to Machin Shin? 
5 headed dragon, come on. 
Im watching this with a non-book reader and the only reason she’s continuing to watch is because she knows I love the series. A friends wife is doing the same with him but she thinks it terrible and she likes the Witcher and Game of thrones tv shows. 
The sets look cheap at times, the acting is woeful, it’s very melodramatic, it’s too serious with no real levity. 
nothing looks lived in, they look like sets. 
the costumes design is good at times but everything looks too clean. 
 

and before someone gets snarky and says ‘I dint need to watch’ or ‘thanks for watching this far and good luck’, don’t. I’ll be watching to the end in hope that Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time makes an appearance. 
Im a stubborn, woolheaded shepherded like that. 

[Agitel]

While there could be other explanations for this, Barney Harris is credited as being in episodes 7 and 8 on IMDB. I'm putting my money down on this not being due to him leaving the show, and they're going to do something else with him during this time. Fain? Luck? It'd be interesting if weird luck stuff started happening now.

 

Mat will probably just use the deluminator Dumbledore left in him in his will to find the people he left behind and then apparate to them. Wait! Wrong books.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Agitel

[Agitel]

"The Dragon has five heads" - Rhaegar Targaryen

[Indil]

36 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

a little disappointed Mat didn’t wander down to the training yard. I thought this episode was going to introduce Galad and Gawyn for Mat and my biggest qualm at the moment is Rand is falling way behind compared to the rest of the cast in character development. Even Mat and Perrin. Collectively the boys are the weakest narratively. Perrin should have wiped the floor with some of the Whitecloaks, Mat’s out of the woods now but still hasn’t developed a ton of his skills, and Rand is still kind of bland. Egwene and Nynaeve have had so much beneficial screentime in comparison. All three of lads feel quite useless and it’s really starting to bother me. 

 

True. In the book Perrin killed a whitecloak, Mat shot at a few Trollacs, and Rand frighten tons of people by wearing a heron marked blade. Their edges are all down played in the show for some mysterious reason. Hope we get some fun quarterstuff soon.

[phoenixtrinity]

33 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

I've been a big apologist of the show, but I really think this is unfair. Book purists whined about LotR. Book purists whined about GOT. But not all things are equal. As an apologist for this show I can still admit they are taking quite a broad license with the adaptation, much more than either LotR or GOT, imho. I can certainly imagine something closer that's still far from a page-for-page transcription.

 

I can respect that, and I didn't intend to be unfair. I can't speak for LotR, as I haven't read it (I know, I just couldn't get into it ? ), but to me GOT feels almost more different between its book and show adaption than the WoT so far. I'm not saying the WoT show is the best thing since sliced bread, since it does certainly have differences from the books, but I guess all of the comments about things like Loial's height or the color of the weaves makes me wonder what people really need out of the show to make it positive in their eyes.

 

Edit to clarify: I understand there are many reasons people don't like the show, and I respect that. I am mainly feeling a bit overwhelmed by the number of comments about the little things. There are things I wish the show did closer to the books, or things that sometimes feel off, and I don't deny that takes away from the show's potential. But I guess in the long run I'm just happy we got a rendition of one of my favorite book series.

 

Keep up the good discussion ?

Edited December 10, 2021 by phoenixtrinity

[Pandemonium]

Everything is moving so fast!  10 episodes so badly needed in the future if they are going to focus on all these secondary characters so much.  

 

Also, why doesn't Moiraine take her terangreal with her everywhere so she has constant communication with Siuan.  Is that terangreal our 1st glimpse of telaranrhiod?  

 

 Mat's dagger healing scene didn't look very convincing.  Not sure where the dagger is now but I'm assuming Mat is not entirely severed.  Will be fun to see what mischief Matt is up to now.  

[CaddySedai]

9 minutes ago, Owayn The Traveller said:

 

and before someone gets snarky and says ‘I dint need to watch’ or ‘thanks for watching this far and good luck’, don’t. I’ll be watching to the end in hope that Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time makes an appearance. 
Im a stubborn, woolheaded shepherded like that. 

 

I think you misunderstand. I did mean thanks for sticking with it till now. Since I like the series - views matter since viewership numbers are one of the most important drivers for getting more seasons out of it. 

 

So I genuinely appreciate every view - from those who love or hate the show. Since it gives the show more potential at having many more seasons. 

 

My snark is way more biting than that, as well, tyvm. 

 

?

[Indil]

2 minutes ago, phoenixtrinity said:

 

I can respect that, and I didn't intend to be unfair. I can't speak for LotR, as I haven't read it (I know, I just couldn't get into it ? ), but to me GOT feels almost more different between its book and show adaption than the WoT so far. I'm not saying the WoT show is the best thing since sliced bread, since it does certainly have differences from the books, but I guess all of the comments about things like Loial's height or the color of the weaves makes me wonder what people really need out of the show to make it positive in their eyes.

From what I can remember, GOT Season 1 is much closer to to the book than WoT show does. 

[phoenixtrinity]

7 minutes ago, Indil said:

From what I can remember, GOT Season 1 is much closer to to the book than WoT show does. 

 

For S1 to Book 1, I think you're right. I am thinking of S2, maybe S3? I don't remember precisely, but I know Sansa's character is dramatically changed in terms of place/time/plot (imo) and some other characters are changed or die/don't die. Sorry, it's been a while since I've read the books or seen the show, so I'm having a tough time with the details.

[ManetherenTaveren]

Hard to digest this one. Except for the expected S & M reveal (loved their scenes), it went down differently than predicted. I'll take that as a good thing! 

 

- Cool surprise with the ter'angreal (should've guessed that's what it was!)

- Couldn't help but wonder if Siuan channeled a little something else to Moraine during the oath rod ceremony

- So Mat is left to have fun with Padan Fain alone? Odd

- Umm, like others have noticed...why hasn't Lan noticed the heron blade yet? It was right there!

- Why did my mind start repeating "Siuan Sanche, Seanchan, Siuan Sanche, Seanchan..." throughout the episode? (Say that 4 times)

- I appreciated the news of odd things happening around the Westlands...

- Not as fond of the cold open as others are, but it worked to give Siuan some depth

- Logain always steals the scene

- The Aes Sedai scenes in the Amyrlin ceremony room were impressive

- Loial needs more! 

- Yay, tEotW! Let's go! Did the Eye move to Shayol Ghul or are we experiencing disinformation like our social media is like to do? My dumb guess is that they will be preparing for the Dark One, but we'll have a Forsaken reveal instead (will they witness the seals weaken and their subsequent escape?)

- I'll just mention Allana's green outfit, just because ?

- Keep the lore coming!

- Rosemund Pike carries her scenes so well. She was excellent.

 

One of the stronger episodes, imho. Looking forward to reading others' thoughts.   

[themann1086]

One thing I enjoyed a lot but didn't put in the bulletin was all the Aes Sedai wordplay in this episode. It takes me back to pouring over every quote to try and figure out either how they bent the truth or if they were actually lying.

 

Also, I'm now on Team "Liandrin is probably not BA in the show". This may change!

 

Oh, and "Siuan Sanche waits for one woman, and it's not you" was an all-time great line

[ForsakenPotato]

Maybe they just meant that the Dark One is trapped in the Blight, vs specifically at The Eye of the World? Like same neighborhood different house. But it was definitely one of the things that as soon as they said it I was like "hmmmmmmm interesting choice, let's see what that ends up meaning."

 

I feel everyone saying they wished we were spending more time with the EF5 because they are theoretically the main characters. But also it's been such a joy to see so much of Moiraine and Logain and Siuan and Alanna and etc...I think I'm definitely in the camp of "I don't want to see less of these characters I just want more episodes so we can see more of everyone." It's interesting, it feels like they are structuring it to spend a lot of time with older characters, and then presumably we'll see how our younger characters grow up and began to replace them in future seasons. But I agree it's a very different structure from how the books presented the character arcs.