tv show spoilers S1E5: Blood Calls Blood

[dwn]

5 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Interesting to see that even a lot of non book viewers are picking up on how it makes no sense for the Whitecloaks to be operating just outside Tar Valon.

 

I love that we have "Book Expert" Sarah telling us how hard they worked to make sure the changes made sense not just now but all the way down the line and yet even people who haven't read the books are able to pick up on how the Whitecloak's position in this episode makes no sense.

 

 

Except at the beginning of TDR the WC are indeed harassing the villages outside TV. They're still there in TSR to rope Galad into their zealotry. Heck, even in TEotW Andor is fair teaming with them, and Andor is both powerful and a strong supporter of the Tower.

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

Are the book Whitecloaks burning Aes Sedai and publicly carrying around the rings of the Aes Sedai they've killed? No.

 

In the books it can make sense that they might be able to push the limits because they aren't killing Aes Sedai like that. In the show Valda has killed seven Aes Sedai and is even known to have done this by an Aes  Sedai in the White Tower and yet he's allowed to continued torturing and attacking people despite being in sight of the White Tower.

 

We have no idea about how long he has been there, since he only went there after leaving Bornhald. 

 

But to be clear, your proof that SN is not a book expert is the change that WC are better at killing AS, and therefore shouldn't be allowed near TV, not that they are near TV per se? 

[Harad the White]

5 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Are the book Whitecloaks burning Aes Sedai and publicly carrying around the rings of the Aes Sedai they've killed? No.

 

Is Child Valda in the City carrying around the Rings? No. Is he in the woods in a small band outside the City, lurking? Yes.

 

And I asked before, Aus. Where did you get your info about Rafe, "unintentionally" showing Laila about to kill Matt. Just name the source so we know you have one.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Harad the White

[pyrusmole]

Ok but to be fair, the "link arms in the face of danger" is a show!Tinker thing. The book!Tinker solution to conflict is to explicitly bargain and failing that, run away.

[AusLeviathan]

12 minutes ago, Ralph said:

But to be clear, your proof that SN is not a book expert is the change that WC are better at killing AS, and therefore shouldn't be allowed near TV, not that they are near TV per se?

My proof is that by moving this scene to just outside the White Tower (so close they can easily see it) and making the Whitecloaks immediately Aes Sedai killers, they have made that scene make no sense.

 

Just like Loial no longer making sense when talking about crowds chasing him, just like how women can link but chose not to in episode 4 to shield Logain which would've solved the issue presented in the episode, just like how men control the world even though women don't appear to have anything holding them back and have the advantage (not to mention that women control much of the world and have advisors in almost every nation), just like Logain seeing Nynaeve's weave even though he apparently didn't, just like how Stepin doesn't go into a rage until he see's his Aes Sedai dead, just like Lan who had already lost everything being extremely affected because one of his friends has dies when he should be used to it, just like Warder's praying to the Forsaken in the White Tower, just like a Warder killing himself instead of running off to the Blight to die doing the most damage he can, just like nothing in this show makes sense.

 

So many issue with this show that should've been fixed and yet Sarah the shill is there telling us how well thought out everything is. They couldn't even make it through half a season without destroying any sense in this world.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Agitel]

23 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Interesting to see that even a lot of non book viewers are picking up on how it makes no sense for the Whitecloaks to be operating just outside Tar Valon.

 

But they operate right outside of Tar Valon in the books, harassing even within some of the bridge towns.

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, pyrusmole said:

Tinker solution to conflict is to explicitly bargain and failing that, run away.

And the fair cornclusion is?

[Agitel]

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

My proof is that by moving this scene to just outside the White Tower (so close they can easily see it) and making the Whitecloaks immediately Aes Sedai killers, they have made that scene make no sense.

 

Just like Loial no longer making sense when talking about crowds chasing him, just like how women can link but chose not to in episode 4 to shield Logain which would've solved the issue presented in the episode, just like how men control the world even though women don't appear to have anything holding them back and have the advantage, just like Logain seeing Nynaeve's weave even though he apparently didn't, just like how Stepin doesn't go into a rage until he see's his Aes Sedai dead, just like Lan who had already lost everything being extremely affected because one of his friends has dies when he should be used to it, just like Warder's praying to the Forsaken in the White Tower, just like a Warder killing himself instead of running off to the Blight to die doing the most damage he can, just like nothing in this show makes sense.

 

So many issue with this show that should've been fixed and yet Sarah the shill is there telling us how well thought out everything is. They couldn't even make it through half a season without destroying any sense in this world.

 

There are issues with the show, but it'd be nice if you didn't have criticisms of things that do match the books. They use unlinked Aes Sedai to shield male channelers to have multiple shields rather than one, and two linked sisters have a lower cap than two unlinked sisters. I should clarify there is a difference between subduing one male channeler (linking is good here) to maintaining a shield (they formally do it separately, usually).

 

Also, "Sarah the Shill"? Geez, man, that's just pathetic.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Agitel

[AusLeviathan]

6 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

In New Spring when Accepted Moiraine and Siuan we're escorted across the southern bridge by Tower Guards, they halted momentarily due to a group of mounted Whitecloaks being on the other side.

Just after the time period when the Whitecloak's were part of the Army that were fighting the Aiel just outside Tar Valon.

 

10 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Also, "Sarah the Shill"? Geez, man, that's just pathetic.

To me she's Ishy and Rafe's the Dark One, right down to the Dark One making Ishy think the plan is one thing but actually having the plan be something Ishy isn't expecting.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Gothic Flame]

Still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Valda has actually killed Aes Sedai..

How in the wide world of sports does that happen?

Edited December 4, 2021 by Gothic Flame
Spelling

[Harad the White]

Just now, AusLeviathan said:

During the time when the Whitecloak's were part of the Army that were fighting the Aiel just outside Tar Valon.

So how does that forward your "argument"? What is the recent history in Amazon WoT?

 

And again what is your source for RJ2's "unintentional" scene in Eps1. Last time to ask-- if there's no answer, the cornclusion is: it's made up.

[MasterAblar]

Whitecloaks are shown to operate near Tar Valon in the books.

 

You're arguing that Valda killing Aes Sedai should make that impossible in the show but:

 

- there's no reason to believe the Aes Sedai (other than Moiraine) know about it

- we have no idea how long ago Valda got there

 

So it's entirely plausible that Whitecloaks could be nearby, particularly since there seems to be a pretty large gap when it comes to the Whitecloacks between the extremist Valda and the far more moderate Bornhald.

[Agitel]

Let's just ignore that Galad first talks to the White Cloaks in the cities/towns surrounding Tar Valon because Valda had led troops into the area, and they're present and harassing the surrounding area of TV in TGH and TDR.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Agitel

[AusLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

And again what is your source for RJ2's "unintentional" scene in Eps1. Last time to ask-- if there's no answer, the cornclusion is: it's made up.

The source was posted earlier of the interview where he immediately denied that Laila was a Darkfriend, if you want to ignore it because you don't like it then that's your choice.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Gothic Flame said:

Still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Valda has actually killed Aes Sedai..

How in the wide world of sports does that happen?

 

There are 100% ways it could happen in the books. Aes Sedai are only human, and caught by suprise they could be definitely be killed.

 

That said, I do agree that the Whitecloaks were not shown to be so bold as to do that in the books, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

The source was posted of the interview where he immediately denied that Laila was a Darkfriend, if you want to ignore it because you don't like it then that's your choice.

A source is a direct attributed quote, a site to go to, or, preferably, a url. Not an untraceable "interview." Last, last chance.

[Agitel]

I'm not satisfied yet with the show's explanation (or still lack there of) of how Valda is capturing sisters. There are plausible ways to do it available to Rafe. We should have been shown something.

 

But WC operating immediately around TV under Valda is in the books themselves.

[TheDreadReader]

4 minutes ago, Agitel said:

I'm not satisfied yet with the show's explanation (or still lack there of) of how Valda is capturing sisters. There are plausible ways to do it available to Rafe. We should have been shown something.

 

But WC operating immediately around TV under Valda is in the books themselves.

 

I am hopeful that this will be something we see in the future.  I'd be unhappy if they left it as is but it definitely feels like a wafo thing.

 

I'm enjoying having the read on and find out aspect back with the wheel of time. ?

 

[2RiversFan]

19 hours ago, Harad the White said:

So how does that forward your "argument"? What is the recent history in Amazon WoT?

 

And again what is your source for RJ2's "unintentional" scene in Eps1. Last time to ask-- if there's no answer, the cornclusion is: it's made up.

I also mentioned the disbelief that Whitecloaks were so close to Tar Valon in one of my first posts in this thread:

Posted Thursday at 06:42 PM

1. Shallow graves??  
2. "Last embrace of the Mother" - no longer just a Borderlander saying then.

3. Whitecloaks so close to TV??
4.  Loial!!!!! but waaaay too short

I'll post more thoughts... first time through this episode.  I'll think these are more OK later I suspect.

It struck me as straying from book canon, because I recalled at least one of the sister's in at least one of the books commenting on how they'd (WC's) not dare to come "that close".  My memory was that the WCs would only get that close when the Aes Sedai as a whole were perceived as weak, and they'd not dare get close when the tower was perceived as strong.  But then I found these entries in

encyclopaedia-wot.org : 

• TGH,Ch4 - A party of Whitecloaks led by Eamon Valda follow Elayne from Caemlyn to Tar Valon and remain camped nearby.
• TGH,Ch24 - The Whitecloaks that followed Elayne to Tar Valon are still camped by Dragonmount.
• TDR,Ch11 - The Tar Valon bridge guard reports to Verin that the Whitecloaks tried to take over Eldone Market and other small, outlying villages.
• LoC,Prologue - When Eamon Valda and most of the Whitecloaks leave Tar Valon, Gawyn wonders what Pedron Niall is up to.

If my memory/assumptions are correct, that site (encyclopaedia-wot.org) was created and maintained by @JenniferL, @Mashiara Sedai, and @Jason Denzel.

• Edited just now to tag the three of you for to hopefully confirm or deny my memory/assumption above.

My point is that I suppose I was incorrect in my thought that they'd not operate that closely to the Tower while it was perceived to be strong.

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by 2RiversFan

[Harad the White]

10 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

but it definitely feels like a wafo thing

 

Which one did you mean?

 

WaFo Wake Forest
WAFO Water Alcohol Freon Oil
WAFO Wave Analysis for Fatigue and Oceanography
WAFO Wide Area Field Optic
WAFO Workforce Analysis And Forecasting Office

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, 2RiversFan said:

My point is that I suppose I was incorrect in my thought that they'd not operate that closely to the Tower while it was perceived to be strong.

A lamented ex-member of DM created a response for this situation:

Oh Light, you were totally correct - I absolutely see your point and you've completely changed my mind!

[TheDreadReader]

2 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

 

Which one did you mean?

 

WaFo Wake Forest
WAFO Water Alcohol Freon Oil
WAFO Wave Analysis for Fatigue and Oceanography
WAFO Wide Area Field Optic
WAFO Workforce Analysis And Forecasting Office

 

Watch and Find Out.

 

[Beidomon]

I haven’t read all 26 pages, but what’s the theory on Rand having seen Dragonmount before? Dreams or visions and such?

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, Beidomon said:

I haven’t read all 26 pages, but what’s the theory on Rand having seen Dragonmount before? Dreams or visions and such?

 

I assumed supposed to be memory of prior life seeping through. Not seeing it but creating it

[TheDreadReader]

2 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

I haven’t read all 26 pages, but what’s the theory on Rand having seen Dragonmount before? Dreams or visions and such?

 

Childhood memory?