tv show spoilers S1E5: Blood Calls Blood

[Andromedus]

6 minutes ago, thievingsackofpotatoes said:

I love the Thom, Mat, and Rand travels but there’s no way they were going to fit that all into the show. Could they have used another scene of them bonding? I’d have liked it but currently we have (although briefly) Mat and Thom bonding over the Aiel and Rand and Thom bonding over Mat maybe being a channeler. It’s also during this scene that Thom outright states he’s staying with them to help out as long as he can (because of his nephew).

 

flute Rand is cool but doesn’t have any real importance over the full story narrative.

 

I do wish that there was a very short scene (and they could have easily done this) that showed Lan training the boys while Mo trained Egwene).

 

Rand does try to get the sword back from Dana but she schools his a**. I don’t think running afterwards shows they have no “backbone.”

 

Why does Rand fleeing from a superior fighter show that he doesn’t have “backbone?”

I miss the training with Lan as well wonder if they will use another time skip to cover this or focus on it in season 2 at the beginning.  I do really hope they get the swordsmanship and it's importance correct 

 

"When the sun turns green" is one of my fave quotes/moments

Edited December 5, 2021 by Andromedus

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

14 minutes ago, Andromedus said:

I'd agree it's got the bones for greatness - you can't please everyone and you shouldn't try - a 14 book behemoth is going to have to lose/merge plotlines and change the pace, just common sense to me.

 

Interested to see the Forsaken and who is cut/merged in that storyline, they were always frustrating villains I would love to see the show make them less stupid.

 

 

I’d agree that it has the “bones” for being something really special. Right now it’s got some work to do (although as a book fan I love seeing WoT on the screen), speaking from a visual medium perspective.

 

I'm someone who feels like the characters from the books are actually on screen.

 

with that said, from a non-book reader and tv/movie fan perspective the story telling is, so far, solid. It could be tighter in its operation.

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by thievingsackofpotatoes
I’m terrible at words.

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

1 minute ago, Andromedus said:

I miss the training with Lan as well wonder if they will use another time skip to cover this or focus on it in season 2 at the beginning.  I do really hope they get the swordsmanship and it's importance correct 

I’m hoping for a scene when they’re near the 

Spoiler

Blight

Season 2 seems more likely at this point.

[Ralph]

Not understanding the problem with Moiraine saying "the last embrace of the mother."  Kerene was a Borderlander (supposedly) so it is following her ritual. 

[Andromedus]

3 minutes ago, thievingsackofpotatoes said:

I’d agree that it has the “bones” for being something really special. Right now it’s got some work to do (although as a book fan I love seeing WoT on the screen), speaking from a visual medium perspective.

 

I'm someone who feels like the characters from the books are actually on screen.

 

with that said, from a known book fan and tv/movie fan perspective the story telling is, so far, solid. It could be tighter in its operation.

 

Agree, it's a solid start with moments of awesomeness thus far, I'm overall pleased, it could have been Shannara (shudders).  My brothers partner was so curious about who the DR is he spoiled it for himself lol

Edited December 5, 2021 by Andromedus

[Joe B]

3 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Age before AoL is  ~our age

IS it, though?

[Andromedus]

Just now, Joe B said:

IS it, though?

I always thought so ??‍♂️

 

We probably blew ourselves up or wrecked the planet in the first age

[Jackdaw_Fool]

4 hours ago, Harad the White said:

Let's face it, there is no link. What other reason is there to avoid the simple act of posting it?

Maybe because you are being a real trolloc about this? I happened to have just read this thread through from start to finish so the post he was referring to was fresh in my mind.

 

Here is the post from around page 6. If you listen to the podcast in his link (the podcast is lengthy... within it they spend half an hour or so interviewing Rafe), it is exactly as he described. The specific part he refers to is at 1:47:34.

 

They talk about theories regarding the show and ask Rafe if, in regards to Perrin's wife, the word "darkfriend" means anything. Rafe immediately replies "No."... Very quickly as AusLeviathan says "without even giving himself a moment to think about his reaction so this is almost certainly the truth." They continue discussing the subject and talk about what darkfriends are and talk about people theorizing and Rafe says they are noticing things worth noticing. I imagine he is referring to the fact that some of the characters we see will in fact end up being darkfriends... But he clearly put to rest the Laila being a darkfriend thing as advertised.

 

 

On 12/3/2021 at 3:27 AM, AusLeviathan said:

Just before that they were talking about Laila and Rafe was asked if she was a Darkfriend to which he immediately said no (he said it very fast without even giving himself a moment to think about his reaction so this is almost certainly the truth).

 

There is something to the scene but it's not that she's Darkfriend, they really were just trying to play up the hammer. What is possible is that they bring the actress back, either for use in TAR or for someone to use her appearance in trying to trick Perrin.

 

https://www.theringer.com/2021/11/19/22792149/the-wheel-of-time-premiere-with-zach-baron-and-rafe-judkins

 

[JenniferL]

Alright, no more posts about that stupid link. The point has been made and the rest of us are bored. 

[Samwell Tarly]

4 minutes ago, Andromedus said:

I always thought so ??‍♂️

 

We probably blew ourselves up or wrecked the planet in the first age

I just always thought people discovered that everything is less miserable when instead of technology infrastructure is depending on One Power, so the civilization changed to the unrecognizable state. 

[Kudzu]

Late to the party again, I should really try harder to login on the weekends to post my thoughts before page 32.

 

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think this was my favourite episode. It didn't have the biggest (or any) battle, biggest wow moment, or best plot twist. But in terms of a quality TV show I think this was the best episode.

 

Those that are concerned about the focus on minor characters, I have some thoughts. EOTW is a pretty simple story, at it's heart it's an adventure. That means the major adventuring bits can be rushed over a bit without loosing too much and allows them to take some time for world building.

 

The Steppin arc wasn't about giving Steppin character time at the expense of others. It was teaching us about the bond, and the impact of it being severed. Watchers know now loosing their Aes Sedai will screw a warder up and they aren't likely to forget it. Sure, they could have given us the same info with a short exposition dump and spent some more time with Rand and Loial, but it wouldn't have had the same effect and would likely be forgotten when it becomes relevant to our main cast.

 

Same with spending more time with Logain than in the books. We now have reason to be really scared for Rand. We've seen the madness and we've seen how devastating gentling is for a person.

 

So yeah, we do end up with book plot feeling a bit rushed and bits missing. But on the flip side we're getting a really solid foundation on which to tell the rest of the story.

[Bruan]

33 minutes ago, thievingsackofpotatoes said:

They are surrounded by Trollocs and didn’t have a choice. They tried to flee first and being overwhelmed was the reason they headed into SL.

 

Mat grabbed a knife when a dark friend tried to stab Rand when he was having the sickness from channeling the first time. He didn’t stab, let alone kill her.

 

you’re also confusing Mat and Rand with Mat and Thom from BOOK 3 when they are saving Aludra.

 

but the show is performing character assassinations. 
 

?

Like I said, I’m working off memory, not a fresh re-read. But charging into trollocs is both terrifying and brave. And I really don’t recall them acting as cowardly as they are portrayed in the show so far. Sure, they were scared, alone and out off their element, but they managed to do what they needed without blind panic.

 

but, my arguments on the changes of the characters still stand, at least as we see so far. They cut out much of the initial character development (and for what? A full half episode of material about the warded bond that wasn’t even in the book and  that could have been covered in a three minute scene?). I’m not sure I like what they’re doing to my story yet.

[Joe B]

13 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

Ah, the "Real soldiers don't..."  nonsense.

As someone who serves the military, knows a lot of soldiers and has watched what they go through and worked with them.  You're full of it.  Yes, some are stoic and blank, others aren't.  And if you think Lan showing emotion in a specific instance as part of a ritual is too far, I have to come to the conclusion that you don't have any experience with real soldiers.

Twenty years in the Air Force here. From my experience, show all the emotion you want, as long as you can do your job.

 

With that said, you will still be considered a cry baby. At least in the "real" Air Force.

[KakitaOCU]

6 minutes ago, Samwell Tarly said:

I just always thought people discovered that everything is less miserable when instead of technology infrastructure is depending on One Power, so the civilization changed to the unrecognizable state. 

Generally it fits with the upscale of technology.  Sociology shows that more resources and technology don't make people less greedy or scummy.  But they make it a point where the greedy and scummy can amass their wealth without stepping as badly on the little guy.

Look at today and how many people think everything is fine with a few people having all the wealth.  If you asked in a vacuum they probably wouldn't be fine.  But if they have a solid home, and enough to eat and can provide for their kids, they're not really likely to put as much concern on how powerful someone else is.

So, say in the next thousand years someone discovers the one power.  Initially I imagine there'd be an arms race and some rather horrific events.  But over time access to the ability to heal any injury, to push construction through without significant concern or effort?  The ability to adjust weather patterns to prevent major disasters and ensure crops are always reliable?

That'd slowly lead to a utopia.  Utopia lasts long enough and violence would slowly fade away.  Not that it happens at all but just the idea of items specifically for war.

[KakitaOCU]

4 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Twenty years in the Air Force here. From my experience, show all the emotion you want, as long as you can do your job.

 

With that said, you will still be considered a cry baby. At least in the "real" Air Force.

First things's first, your personal experience trumps my knowing other people, just so no one thinks that argument is happening.

But let me ask (And this is based on some of my closest friends and family being airforce, marine and army, as well as my working for a company that specifically caters to the armed forces).  Being emotional all over the place would catch flack, but being emotional in a specific setting where everyone was agreeing to talk?

I've known people who were super stoic most of the time, but put them in a weekly meeting where they're specifically going over their issues and it's another story.

The only super emotive Lan I've seen is the funeral situation.  I don't think that's enough to claim he's over emotive all th etime.

[Samwell Tarly]

4 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Generally it fits with the upscale of technology.  Sociology shows that more resources and technology don't make people less greedy or scummy.  But they make it a point where the greedy and scummy can amass their wealth without stepping as badly on the little guy.

Look at today and how many people think everything is fine with a few people having all the wealth.  If you asked in a vacuum they probably wouldn't be fine.  But if they have a solid home, and enough to eat and can provide for their kids, they're not really likely to put as much concern on how powerful someone else is.

So, say in the next thousand years someone discovers the one power.  Initially I imagine there'd be an arms race and some rather horrific events.  But over time access to the ability to heal any injury, to push construction through without significant concern or effort?  The ability to adjust weather patterns to prevent major disasters and ensure crops are always reliable?

That'd slowly lead to a utopia.  Utopia lasts long enough and violence would slowly fade away.  Not that it happens at all but just the idea of items specifically for war.

Yes, that was my point. 

[bobert]

I agree with the many people seeing the Elaida/Liandrin Mashup. One thing I haven't heard on this topic. Is this Liandrin Black ajah or not? The character mash up puts this in question.

 

[bobert]

Also just want to throw my two cents on Lan.

 

This Lan is fine. I like him and I like his and Nynaeve's interactions. In the book I honestly couldn't even tell Lan liked her.

 

But the funeral scene was over done. I blame the director/Rafe. I think they had a point and I don't mind Lan showing some emotion, but the scene was just too much. I believe Lugubrious is the word.

 

I'm willing to move on though.

[Ralph]

Look at the Behind the Scenes clip with the actor talking about the scene and how he sees Lan. 

 

I think that is quite interesting

[WhiteVeils]

To me it is clear that they are adapting for the whole book series, not just for book 1.  So much of the setup here early on is to make plots and themes and ideas that come out in books 7 or 8 or even 13 'come full circle'. They're planting the seed here, so when it pops up in the end it's a continuation of the current story.  
 

Like the warder bond going from here to Alanna bonding XX, to Nynaeve's heartbreak with Lan, to Moiraine the transferring the bond, to the twisted stone doorway, to the tower of Genjhi, to Tarmon Gaidon and what happens with both Egwene and Rand...all those later plots have no 'foundation' storywise without a really visceral sense of what this warder bond is. With this one story, made up front, when obviously Rafe felt he could fit it 'best', all those other stories seem more important and make more sense.  It's a sacrifice of time, but when you put it in context of the whole series, it looks like it will pay off, or at least is written to try to. 

There's so many other examples.

Caemlyn was cut this season, but so much important stuff from Caemlyn is in this season.    But pulling everything to Tar Valon gives us the Ajahs, the Ameryllian Seat, the politics that Rand never understood about internal to the Tower but is vital for Egwene's story, and it makes  a foundation so that once that all gets absolutely critically important in book 5 or so, it didn't come from nowhere...It's there in people's minds and they can remember this part and put that all in framework, instead of it being whipped up out of nothing.  Aes Sedai politics is far more important overall than Caemlyn politics to how the story works as a whole, after all. 

Character changes make sense in this context too. People have talked about the changes to Perrin and why he killed his wife, to put motivation behind his later overprotectiveness of Faile. But it's more than that...it provides an explanation for the guilt that causes him to offer to turn himself over to the Whitecloaks...twice.  It explains why he might feel like a monster...more than going wolf crazy alone.    But the same changes to Mat's background story make stronger motivations for his arc. Why does he care about getting his memories back so much that he goes through the scary doorways...twice!  Why does he take Olver on rather than turn him over to someone else?   How does such an irresponsible-seeming rogue end up always being so damn responsible for everyone, even ones he never met? Sudden personality shift? No...the seeds were always there, it's just Rand never knew about them.  The show lets us see them in a very visible way so he doesn't suddenly "transform" later on (except in the expected ways).  

It's lots of things like that.
I don't know why they made every change yet, not having seen the whole series. But whenever I'm confused, I think about how this 'ripples' down the line, and it feels pretty right.

[Harad the White]

34 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

within it they spend half an hour or so interviewing Rafe), it is exactly as he described. The specific part he refers to is at 1:47:34.

 

They talk about theories regarding the show and ask Rafe if, in regards to Perrin's wife, the word "darkfriend" means anything. Rafe immediately replies "No."... Very quickly as AusLeviathan says "without even giving himself a moment to think about his reaction so this is almost certainly the truth." They continue discussing the subject and talk about what darkfriends are and talk about people theorizing and Rafe says they are noticing things worth noticing. I imagine he is referring to the fact that some of the characters we see will in fact end up being darkfriends... But he clearly put to rest the Laila being a darkfriend thing as advertised.

I listened to the podcast and sure enough around 1 hour 49 min they discuss the Laila/Perrin scene. The word "unintentional" that @AusLeviathan uses over and over again in his posts is never used by RJ2. Maybe you need to re-read the posts, this time for comprehension. When RJ2 says that the viewers are "noticing things worth noticing there," and he is talking about "He turns and she has her axe up," then, if she is not a DF, she is pretty darn close. Maybe she is being controlled by a Forsaken? Dunno, but getting back to the topic in the DF thread, there is something "intended" by the show runner, not "unintentional." Of course, misstatement goes hand-in-hand with N&N intentions. 

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

33 minutes ago, Bruan said:

Like I said, I’m working off memory, not a fresh re-read. But charging into trollocs is both terrifying and brave. And I really don’t recall them acting as cowardly as they are portrayed in the show so far. Sure, they were scared, alone and out off their element, but they managed to do what they needed without blind panic.

 

but, my arguments on the changes of the characters still stand, at least as we see so far. They cut out much of the initial character development (and for what? A full half episode of material about the warded bond that wasn’t even in the book and  that could have been covered in a three minute scene?). I’m not sure I like what they’re doing to my story yet.

Listen, I get it and I don’t think we’ll end up agreeing on this one (which is fine)

 

I really had to psyche myself up/come to terms with what a tv adaptation would mean for the book series I love.

It was, honestly, Y: The Last Man that was super helpful in altering my expectations.

 

but we differ on what we see as important character traits and that’s, obviously, a big deal. If the characters seemed WAY out of character to me I’d be pissed too. I just happen to think, for the most part, they’re represented on screen.

[Ralph]

We need to start a prediction thread please

 

Did anyone notice on the BtS clip with costume designs it shows a map. That has the characters going from Two Rivers to Tar Valon, from there northeast to Shienar (misspelt) and then further north? 

 

We are def getting a trip into the Blight, and she mentions the Eye itself also

Edited December 5, 2021 by Ralph

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Ralph said:

We need to start a prediction thread please

Win the "Atta-Person" award for accuracy.

[themann1086]

50 minutes ago, bobert said:

I agree with the many people seeing the Elaida/Liandrin Mashup. One thing I haven't heard on this topic. Is this Liandrin Black ajah or not? The character mash up puts this in question.

 

If she isn't all my "go light" jokes that my fiancé doesn't understand will have been for nothing!

 

They might merge black!Liandrin with Alviarin maybe? She's pretty much the most powerful/successful member of the BA in the series anyway...