tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, LoRd PyrO said:

Curious how it will play out considering logain held the madness at bay long enough to begin training Ashamen

 

 

Well strictly speaking with Logain being gentled his madness won't get any worse. And there's relatively time that passes between him being healed and Rand cleasing saidin. Regardless the madness from saidin doesn't progress in a linear fashion. Someone could go mad instantly or hold it off for a long time. There's no had rule other than, eventually, it will get you.

[LoRd PyrO]

22 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Baerlon could have never fit within these 8 episodes. It's good they cut it.

I thought Baerlon was important because it introduced Min and the White Cloaks- the first time Rand "Feels" the source.

 

[MasterAblar]

Introducing Min that early on would very spoilery though considering they want to have a DR mystery. Besides the budget for Baerlon would also be an issue.

[LoRd PyrO]

22 minutes ago, LoRd PyrO said:

Curious how it will play out considering logain held the madness at bay long enough to begin training Ashamen

 

1. Sorry, mispoke. Forgot for a minute that was Taim

[MasterAblar]

Speaking of Min actually... could she be the one behind the 4 ta'veren in the Two Rivers rumour? That's the only thing that makes sense to me with her sometimes knowing exactly what her visions mean. Issue is of course she has never seen any of them. Could be that the symbols around Moiraine tell her that I guess.

Edited November 27, 2021 by MasterAblar

[LoRd PyrO]

3 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Introducing Min that early on would very spoilery though considering they want to have a DR mystery. Besides the budget for Baerlon would also be an issue.

I guess I get it. However, she is a very integral part of the story. I'm also concerned how they're going to bring in Bayle Doman. There was a lot that Matt and Rand learned on that ship. That held them through a lot during their journey. Rand's flute playing is important because it shows him trying to control his dark side. Where did he learn how to play the flute if not from Tom's teaching?

[LoRd PyrO]

I feel like if I follow every episode as it comes out I'm going to be overly disappointed. I may have to step back and watch the entire ensemble all at once. I am too much of a book nerd and have been for the entire series. I feel like I am being disappointed at every turn from the deviations from the books.

[MasterAblar]

9 minutes ago, LoRd PyrO said:

I feel like if I follow every episode as it comes out I'm going to be overly disappointed. I may have to step back and watch the entire ensemble all at once. I am too much of a book nerd and have been for the entire series. I feel like I am being disappointed at every turn from the deviations from the books.

 

For sure I can't help but think about all the changes as I'm watching. That being said I do feel that the show still feels the same, despite the changes. And I think a lot of it is to get the story up and running quickly and introduce concepts that would take longer otherwise. Obviously some things get lost among the way like you say in your post above. It definitely takes some adapting to.

[AusLeviathan]

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

I'm wondering if Stepin will become Elyas in the show.

I feel fairly confident that they'll gender swap Perrin's Wolfbrother mentor to be a woman. There's zero chance they miss the opportunity to add a Wolfsister.

 

Either that or they give the role completely to Hopper and cut Elyas.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[MasterAblar]

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

I feel fairly confident that they'll gender swap Perrin's Wolfbrother mentor to be a woman. There's zero chance they miss the opportunity to add a Wolfsister.

 

Either that or they give the role completely to Hopper and cut Elyas.

 

I...don't see any evidence of that? If they wanted to bring in a wolfsister I'd think it's more likely to be the dude he comes across on his way to Tear.

 

I can kinda see the second but I rather hope not. It would make it seem like being a wolfbrother is completely unique to Perrin which it isn't.

[AusLeviathan]

27 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I...don't see any evidence of that? If they wanted to bring in a wolfsister I'd think it's more likely to be the dude he comes across on his way to Tear.

 

I can kinda see the second but I rather hope not. It would make it seem like being a wolfbrother is completely unique to Perrin which it isn't.

Call it a hunch on my part. There's a lot of tough, older, notable male characters soldiers in WOT and relatively few notable female characters who are the same. They've already made changes to bring more women into greater focus with the Two Rivers and the Tinkers, so it wouldn't be surprising to see a few of those male characters be swapped to female characters.

 

I think how big they make the Elyas role compared to the Hopper role depends entirely on how well the early work with the wolf dogs went.

 

Who knows, we might even get a female Hopper as his mentor.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

Call it a hunch on my part. There's a lot of tough, older, battle experienced notable male characters in WOT and relatively notable female characters. They've already made changes to bring more women into focus with the Two Rivers and the Tinkers, so it wouldn't be surprising to see a few of those male characters be swapped to female characters.

 

I mean Elyas is also a former Warder which are all men. Sure they could change that but I think Perrin needs a male mentor figure at the part where he is. 

 

Like you said they've already very much brought female character more into focus in terms of leadership roles so it seems unecessary. Compared to the books where Bran has a lot more lines than Nyneave early on, the mayor of Baerlon is male, Bornhald, Agelmar, and Raen.

[Sabio]

4 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Logain declares himself a full year before Taim. Taim only declares himself in the time between EotW and tGH I believe. Logain was also more succesful as a False Dragon than Taim.

I thought I remember something with Moiraine being worried that three dragons had declared around the same time, but the guy down in Tear was quickly killed by folks.  With the series making changes and as important as Taim will be, I think it could of added some legit worry for Moiraine if rumor of Taim arrived.  Instead of her worrying over Logian who was clearly too old.

[Brytac]

29 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Call it a hunch on my part. There's a lot of tough, older, notable male characters soldiers in WOT and relatively few notable female characters who are the same. They've already made changes to bring more women into greater focus with the Two Rivers and the Tinkers, so it wouldn't be surprising to see a few of those male characters be swapped to female characters.

 

I think how big they make the Elyas role compared to the Hopper role depends entirely on how well the early work with the wolf dogs went.

 

Who knows, we might even get a female Hopper as his mentor.

Just why the hell do they do this?

 

 

[AusLeviathan]

29 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Like you said they've already very much brought female character more into focus in terms of leadership roles so it seems unecessary.

I mean we're four episodes in and I've lost count of the amount of unnecessary changes so I'm not sure that's an issue for the writing team.

 

They changed how shielding works, despite shielding being something that is going to be popping up a lot in the future and those changes will definitely require further changes down the line to a number of situations to do with shielding to make them work.

 

Plus despite Logain clearly shielding his eyes at the same time we saw the light appear from Nynaeve and despite Logain looking at her in awe and using a light source to describe her. We've got the show's book consultant on Twitter saying that his reaction actually referred to a shockwave. One of those blinding shockwaves apparently that only affects your eyes.

 

I'm pretty sure the writing team is going to continue doing what they want to do and if they want more prominent female characters in certain roles then they'll have no problem doing so.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[MasterAblar]

8 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I thought I remember something with Moiraine being worried that three dragons had declared around the same time, but the guy down in Tear was quickly killed by folks.  With the series making changes and as important as Taim will be, I think it could of added some legit worry for Moiraine if rumor of Taim arrived.  Instead of her worrying over Logian who was clearly too old.

 

Yeah that happens at the beginning of tGH. We'll see if they keep all that in.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

I mean we're four episodes in and I've lost count of the amount of unnecessary changes so I'm not sure that's an issue for the writing team.

 

They changed how shielding works, despite shielding being something that is going to be popping up a lot in the future and those changes will definitely require further changes down the line to a number of situations to do with shielding to make them work.

 

Plus despite Logain clearly shielding his eyes at the same time we saw the light appear from Nynaeve, and despite Logain looking at hear in awe and using a light source to describe her. We've got the show's book consultant on Twitter saying that his reaction actually referred to a shockwave. One of those blinding shockwaves apparently that only affects your eyes.

 

I'm pretty sure the writing team is going to continue doing what they want to do and if they want more prominent female characters in certain roles then they'll have no problem doing so.

 

It's possible they might, I'm just saying there is nothing so far even hinting at it since the character has not even been cast.

 

As for the the whole shielding part I'm not really bothered. Logain clearly wasn't shielded yet when Steping tried to attack him, so Logain was able to defend himself. Only thing that was weird them saying its easier to break out than hold a shield, but you could argue that they were saying constantly channelling is exhausting while doing nothing isn't. 

 

As for the Nyneave thing I don't know, if it made a bright light it made a bright light. Different from the books when it comes to healing but I don't see the break in rules. He just saw the effect is all.

[AusLeviathan]

17 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

As for the Nyneave thing I don't know, if it made a bright light it made a bright light. Different from the books when it comes to healing but I don't see the break in rules. He just saw the effect is all.

Oh I've got no problem with Logain seeing a light, I thought from the moment I saw it that they may as well do this and make it Logain seeing a powerful Ta'veren for the first time (since they don't want to draw too much attention to Rand).

 

I just thought it was weird that the show's book consultant didn't seem to realize that Logain was portrayed as clearly covering his eyes at the moment the light appeared which made it pretty clear that he did see something.

 

In fairness to Sarah she did seem to realize her mistake after people pointed it out and she came back with the reasoning that Nynaeve may have used a weave that makes light before throwing out a shrugging emoji so she seems as uncertain as all of us.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Sabio]

Some of the changes like no shifting cloaks and no ageless faces I assume are simply to make things easier. How do they give people ageless faces?   Some are just to build drama like the shielding.  Not sure why a whole episode needed to be focused on Logain to demonstrate how powerful he is.  Some for time, like no Berelon.  And some leave me wondering if they even read the book.  The leaving the Two Rivers and Tam giving Rand a nod had me going WHAT?  These people are going off with a dreaded Aes Sedai and no one cares?

 

I assumed the bright light was there for all to see,

Edited November 27, 2021 by Sabio

[MasterAblar]

10 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Oh I've got no problem with Logain seeing a light, I thought from the moment I saw it that they may as well do this and make it Logain seeing a powerful Ta'veren for the first time (since they don't want to draw too much attention to Rand).

 

I just thought it was weird that the show's book consultant didn't seem to realize that Logain was portrayed as clearly covering his eyes at the moment the light appeared which made it pretty clear that he did see something.

 

In fairness to Sarah she did seem to realize her mistake after people pointed it out and she came back with the reasoning that Nynaeve must have used a weave that makes light before throwing out a shrugging emoji so she seems as uncertain as all of us.

Yeah I mean it’s obviously not intuitive and I think for book readers it seems rather odd. It can be logicked away yes but it’s not 100% on first viewing. I doubt non readers would be bothered since basically wouldn’t know much about the mechanics of channeling anyway.

 

4 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Some of the changes like no shifting cloaks and no ageless faces I assume are simply to make things easier. How do they give people ageless faces?   Some are just to build drama like the shielding.  Not sure why a whole episode needed to be focused on Logain to demonstrate how powerful he is.  And some leave me wondering if they even read the book.  The leaving the Two Rivers and Tam giving Rand a nod had me going WHAT?  These people are going off with a dreaded Aes Sedai and no one cares?

 

I assumed the bright light was there for all to see,

Unfortunately the pace in the 1st episode was just very rushed. It definitely would have been nice to have a bit more interaction between Rand and Tam.

[TheDreadReader]

Just now, Sabio said:

Some of the changes like no shifting cloaks and no ageless faces I assume are simply to make things easier. How do they give people ageless faces?   Some are just to build drama like the shielding.  Not sure why a whole episode needed to be focused on Logain to demonstrate how powerful he is. 

 

 

Since they've added the mystery of who the dragon is, it makes sense from a story structure standpoint to introduce a little doubt for Moiraine here.  She's on a character journey as much as any of the other characters are.   

 

On the how powerful thing...  In the books, male channelers are said to be naturally more powerful than female ones.  The audience has seen Moiraine do some amazing things with the power in the first episode and they see other Aes Sedai use the the power in this one.   By introducing 'Logain is powerful' here, the average viewer can start to get a sense of the different levels in power between everyone.

 

If it takes at least 2 Aes Sedai to maintain the shield on Logain that shows us that Logain is at least more powerful than any one Aes Sedai.  That is relatively consistent with book lore.  

 

Much of that is spelled out in the books.  The information is just presented to the reader in different ways and some of those ways don't translate well to the differences between reading and watching something happen.

 

Another good example, I think, is the presentation of the warders in this episode.  Based on comments from Rafe and Sarah, I think it is reasonable to assume that as soon as they decided to include this set of non-book scenes that they reached out to Sarah and said.  "Give me a list from the books of how the warders and their relationships are described."    They then used those descriptions to construct various elements of the fire scene.

 

Just because they change things and move things around doesn't mean that they cannot bring things forward to put things back on track or incorporate information in the present that we wouldn't learn for several books.   

 

 

[Rand the Plumber]

Well I liked it.  I mean, I really liked it.  I'm not going to rehearse every aspect which I liked or disliked, because who wants to read that on page 17?  It does seem to me, though, that the show is now starting to hit its stride.  Let's see if they can keep up the pace in the next four episodes.  Some stand-outs for me include:

• Did anyone else notice that when Logain was channelling, sometimes at least, the power seemed to snake from somewhere outside of him?  A very clever way of showing how he is being manipulated by person or persons unknown.
• Not sure what I think of the shadow people whispering in Logain's ears.  Forsaken, I presume.  I hope they put in a fleshly appearance soon, because I don't think that the disembodied shadows really work.
• Really enjoyed the Tinkers scenes, and I don't mind overmuch that Ilya has been given prominence over Raen.
• I love Matt again.
• And Marcus Rutherford is hot.  My goodness me, I came over all a-flutter.
• Was less impressed with Rand in this episode, and my opinions on Thom are decidedly neutral.
• The actor playing Liandrin has really nailed her.

Overall, a solid 5/7.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Rand the Plumber
I can't keep my Rutherfords and Rashfords straight.

[flinn]

15 minutes ago, Rand the Plumber said:

Well I liked it.  I mean, I really liked it.  I'm not going to rehearse every aspect which I liked or disliked, because who wants to read that on page 17?  It does seem to me, though, that the show is now starting to hit its stride.  Let's see if they can keep up the pace in the next four episodes.  Some stand-outs for me include:

• Did anyone else notice that when Logain was channelling, sometimes at least, the power seemed to snake from somewhere outside of him?  A very clever way of showing how he is being manipulated by person or persons unknown.
• Not sure what I think of the shadow people whispering in Logain's ears.  Forsaken, I presume.  I hope they put in a fleshly appearance soon, because I don't think that the disembodied shadows really work.
• Really enjoyed the Tinkers scenes, and I don't mind overmuch that Ilya has been given prominence over Raen.
• I love Matt again.
• And Marcus Rashford is hot.  My goodness me, I came over all a-flutter.
• Was less impressed with Rand in this episode, and my opinions on Thom are decidedly neutral.
• The actor playing Liandrin has really nailed her.

Overall, a solid 5/7.

 I thought the shadow figures were just the taint. It appears that hearing voices is going to be the universal madness in the show, instead of each person having their own unique madness trait.

Edited November 27, 2021 by flinn

[Agitel]

58 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Some of the changes like no shifting cloaks and no ageless faces I assume are simply to make things easier. How do they give people ageless faces?   Some are just to build drama like the shielding.  Not sure why a whole episode needed to be focused on Logain to demonstrate how powerful he is.  Some for time, like no Berelon.  And some leave me wondering if they even read the book.  The leaving the Two Rivers and Tam giving Rand a nod had me going WHAT?  These people are going off with a dreaded Aes Sedai and no one cares?

 

I assumed the bright light was there for all to see,

 

The whole episode shows the corruption of saidin, shielding, gentling, linking, different Aes Sedai Ajahs and their differing roles and tensions. It did a lot of work in introducing these concepts to show watchers outside of monologues. It wasn't just to make things more dramatic, it did a lot of mechanics legwork.

[ManetherenTaveren]

19 minutes ago, Rand the Plumber said:

And Marcus Rashford is hot.  My goodness me, I came over all a-flutter.

LOL. I suppose it's easy to confuse players on the Man United roster with a bunch of Tinkers! ? The way of the leaf indeed!