tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[MasterAblar]

There's actually a second bed in the tent. It's fairly obvious now that I'm watching a second time. It might be that the showrunners are trying to make it seem like Nyneave thinks there's something between them, but I really don't feel like its obvious there is, unless people are completely unaware that platonic relationships, even close ones, can happen between men and women.

[Skipp]

13 minutes ago, Meskell said:

I know I’m coming into this argument late but I would 100% say the intention from the writers, with that scene, was for non-readers to assume that Moiraine and Lan are about to have sex. 
 

It’s all geared up to be a shock when he starts dating Nynaeve.

 

The camera lingers on the green coming over to take her warder. Then a coy discussion about maintaining energy and then the Lan immediately stating that he is going to see Moiraine, with knowing looks from the other warder and Nynaeve looking annoyed. 

I think you are correct. They are playing up the idea that ALL warders have relationships with their Aes Sedai but every scene we have of Lan and Moiraine alone shows they have a very intimate but non sexual relationship.  Or at least that is how this book readers sees those scenes.

[Jaysen Gore]

On the whole are they / aren't they, of course they're not. Consider who's POV it was to watch Lan go to Moiraine's tent. Nynaeve is busy falling for solider boy, and to her, it looks like he's sleeping with "that blue witch". Because most of the other warders are with their Aes Sedai- but they're greens. Jealousy of Moiraine and possessiveness of Lan are rather lengthy through lines in the book. This is probably the first time she is going to jump to that particular conclusion, but it won't be the last. I guarantee you that one of the two of them laughs in her face about it before the series is over.

 

Also, Moiraine's level of emotionalism under the influence is a hand on the wrist. It could make her potential story conclusion even more of a shock if she doesn't loosen up.

 

Finally - the bathing scene; likely to be seen again in Fal Dara (maybe Rand and the Lord's sister?) It's a borderlands thing. /shrug

[flinn]

 Ok just finished the episode.. Loved it...

 

 two things I have had to accept.

 

 Nynaeve chopped Bela up into small pieces and consumed her raw making Nynaeve the Creator++

 

 Lan is an absolute pansy and I hope to see him die.

[Skipp]

38 minutes ago, Meskell said:

Really enjoyed the episode. Logain was fantastic right the way through and I really enjoyed the little smiles before he broke the shield. It was a great way of showing that he was playing with the AS and using just enough strength against the shield to tire them but not break himself out too early. 
 

The representation of the taint was great, especially the two whispering taint ghosts on his shoulders. 
 

I did find the lack of linking a bit odd, especially when they did it at the end. 
 

The leaving of the scar didn’t sit well with me as the original healing method was either healed or not healed, so didn’t leave scars. 
 

I don’t think Logain was overawed by Nynaeve’s power display, I think it was Nynaeve being a TV. It’s similar to how Nicola describes seeing a TV, like a blinding light. No problem if they do make Nynaeve an equal to the more powerful men but they then need to allow the men to link as well. 
 

The Reds being described as essentially AS police for all channellers, including other AS, was a great touch and sets up the storyline of them taking over the tower via a military coup. 
 

The fight choreography continues to be wonky but that’s a limit of tv, so no huge gripe in reality. Struggling to see the full £10m an episode budget but I can imagine that Covid swallowed a lot of the budget up sadly. 
 

Alanna was alluring, sexy, playful, emotional and a devastating fighter, just like imagined her. 
 

I did want the Warder to go more beseker and I didn’t really like that the AS shield could be broken by a physical axe. 
 

Definitely more invested in the series now. 

I originally had the same thought as you about linking and holding the shield.  After further thought on thr subject and thinking back on the books I think the show is portraying it correctly.

 

Thinking specifically of one channeler who is held in a shield for a long time, the character mentions feeling multiple points holding the shield  if they had been linked they that character should have only felt one point.  

 

It is also possible for linking to be used when initiating a shield but is less practical for holding one.

[Skipp]

6 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

For the record: 0:33:58 - There are two beds in Moiraine's tent, one on the right with Moiraine siting on it and the one on the left empty save for Lan's cloak. I saw zero sexual vibes between those two. If the show is to follow Lan & Moiraine's relationship anywhere close to events of New Spring + then it should remain this way through the remainder of the series. 

 

Off the record and in opinion: Alanna's heavily implied retiring for a threesome for the night with her Warders was disgusting and unneeded. The contrasting on how some Green sisters relate to their bonded Warders could've been discussed with pure dialogue and not what was shown at the campfire. But this is a show and not the source. It is what it is, like everything else, take it or leave it.

 

The show: viewers are going to like it, okay it or hate it. It isn't the books, it's it's own thing - a largely different take and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. If anyone is upset over the show's representation of the books then it's wasted energy, just not worth it. I think Caddy Sedai said it best, this episode was the pivotal bus stop, get off the bus or stay on for pie.

I thought they handled that scene very tastfully. To each their own I suppose.

[Agitel]

29 minutes ago, divica said:

If the warder retires to someone's tent, there is a single bed and she has an intimate talk with that someone then yes.

 

If the idea wasn't to make you assume that the warder is going to have sex then don't show several warders retiring to have sex and your female warder doing the same at the same time...

 

It is a matter of knowing how to write a scene...

 

It was an obvious contrast.

[Jaysen Gore]

3 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

<snip>

 

Off the record and in opinion: Alanna's heavily implied retiring for a threesome for the night with her Warders was disgusting and unneeded. The contrasting on how some Green sisters relate to their bonded Warders could've been discussed with pure dialogue and not what was shown at the campfire. But this is a show and not the source. It is what it is, like everything else, take it or leave it.

<snip>

iirc, this particular pecadillo of the Greens is mentioned on the page in at least one of the books (Egwene idly speculates about it to herself, even). So having it more than hinted at on the show is okay by me. Also, if this bothers you, give thanks that this isn't GoT, since we would have gotten to see Alannah Mosvani of the Green Ajah getting tag teamed in glorious rated R HD if it were.

 

They found a decent line between show don't tell, and don't show everything, imo. Also a great way to reinforce for audiences that this isn't Game of Thrones, and more fitting for an all ages audience.

[phoenixtrinity]

6 hours ago, divica said:

No matter what people think of the show it is AWFULL writing to make a character do something that should be impossible.

I don't entirely understand this. One of the things I loved about the books was that we see characters do things that for thousands of years people thought were impossible but were not.

 

I didn't take Nynaeve's healing in this episode to mean "hey guys, this is totally normal and you should expect to see this level of healing each episode" but rather, from how shocked every person in the cave was, I interpreted it as an amazing feat. In the books it's made clear Nynaeve does have exceptional healing powers, and with her block the only times we see her use the Power are when she or others are in immediate danger.

 

Side note, I thought we might see Nyn use the Power when someone attacked her in the battle, but I liked the use of it in the cave much better.

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Dead Warder said:

Which scene are you refering to? But yes, to each their own.

I apologize for my lack of clarity.  I was referring to the polyamorous relationship Alanna and her warders have.

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, phoenixtrinity said:

I don't entirely understand this. One of the things I loved about the books was that we see characters do things that for thousands of years people thought were impossible but were not.

 

I didn't take Nynaeve's healing in this episode to mean "hey guys, this is totally normal and you should expect to see this level of healing each episode" but rather, from how shocked every person in the cave was, I interpreted it as an amazing feat. In the books it's made clear Nynaeve does have exceptional healing powers, and with her block the only times we see her use the Power are when she or others are in immediate danger.

 

Side note, I thought we might see Nyn use the Power when someone attacked her in the battle, but I liked the use of it in the cave much better.

On a side note of this we know Nynaeves healing can very intense and have an area of effect component. 

 

book Spoiler moment for tDR

Spoiler

I believe in tDR she heals Elyances cracked skull and Egwenes headache gets healed by being near it.

 

[SinisterDeath]

52 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I was thinking of Karene healing Moiraine and I was a bit bothered that Moiraine mentioned the healing taking energy from Karene. This doesn't really follow the books where the healing Aes Sedai use is basically first aid, which takes energy from the person.

It still takes energy and concentration to hold the power, and weave the weaves. Moiraine even made the comment that healing that shouldn't have tired her, implying that it should have cost her barely anything to do it.

 

13 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

It might be that the showrunners are trying to make it seem like Nyneave thinks there's something between them,

I agree. I also seem to recall that Nynaeve In the books thought something similar about Lan and Moiraine. 

 

Also we have to remember, that Nynaeve wasn't privvy to the conversations in Ep 2. She may not know the details of the Oaths Moiraine told Eggs. (This is relevant towards Nyn's talk with the red Ajah)

 

12 minutes ago, flinn said:

Nynaeve chopped Bela up into small pieces and consumed her raw making Nynaeve the Creator

Blasphemy!

 

Clearly Bela jump into Nynaeve, possessing her!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheDreadReader]

14 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

There's actually a second bed in the tent. It's fairly obvious now that I'm watching a second time. It might be that the showrunners are trying to make it seem like Nyneave thinks there's something between them, but I really don't feel like its obvious there is, unless people are completely unaware that platonic relationships, even close ones, can happen between men and women.

 

Yes.   And, that scene establishes the romantic conflict that exists in the books.   Is a Nyn and Lan relationship possible while Lan is bonded to Moiraine?    What impact on Moiraine and Lan's relationship does Nyneave have?  Those storylines extend across multiple books.   They are bringing them forward a bit in the story but that makes a lot of sense as a secondary effect of expanding Logain's story.

   

 

 

 

 

 

[Sovyetsky]

Holy neckbeards and incels!  The amount of hate regarding any bit of sexuality, real or perceived, is embarrassing.  The bond between a warder and Aes Sedai is on a whole other level of deep and meaningful.  They are clearly capable of having deep emotional ties and caring towards one another without having to be banging all the time.  Lan and Morraine have been together for a long time.  The scene on the bed and the look on their faces is one of caring deeply for each other and feeling each other's emotions. Settle down people for Wheels sake.

 

 

[Maximillion]

43 minutes ago, Meskell said:

I know I’m coming into this argument late but I would 100% say the intention from the writers, with that scene, was for non-readers to assume that Moiraine and Lan are about to have sex. 
 

It’s all geared up to be a shock when he starts dating Nynaeve.

 

The camera lingers on the green coming over to take her warder. Then a coy discussion about maintaining energy and then the Lan immediately stating that he is going to see Moiraine, with knowing looks from the other warder and Nynaeve looking annoyed. 

exactly right.

 Not sure why there is any denial of what the writing and scene was intended to do.

 

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

Not sure why there is any denial of what the writing and scene was intended to do.

Because none of the people that I know that haven’t read the books think that Lan and Mo are boning. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Elder_Haman

[Agitel]

While people might have wondered as Lan goes to the tent, the scene definitely doesn't end on a question. It ended clearly platonic.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Agitel

[flinn]

 While I dont think Lan and Moiraine are having sex, it is certainly implied to the audience to mislead them.

 

 They have a 5 minute conversation about the bond and then the warders all head to the tents to bang their Aes Sedai, then Lan gets up saying the same thing and head to Moiraines tent. Certainly they want to red herring the relationship, so hard for me to see why so many seem to be upset that people think they might be having sex.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, flinn said:

 While I dont think Lan and Moiraine are having sex, it is certainly implied to the audience to mislead them.

 

 They have a 5 minute conversation about the bond and then the warders all head to the tents to bang their Aes Sedai, then Lan gets up saying the same thing and head to Moiraines tent. Certainly they want to red herring the relationship, so hard for me to see why so many seem to be upset that people think they might be having sex.

It's hard to judge things as readers, since we know there's nothing there. That being said while I get why people might think that Stepin laughing a bit might hint at something, the following scene between Moiraine and Lan is as platonic and non sexual as can be. It's literally all business and a bit of friendship. I won't judge if people think something's there but in my opinion it's hardly angling that way.

[TheDreadReader]

If we consider the scene as coming from Nyneave's point of view then any implication of Aes Sedai and Warders departing for sexy time would make some sense within the context of Lan and Nyneave's budding relationship.   Whether she is aware of it or not.

 

There are, of course, any number of direct and veiled references to Greens and their warders sprinkled across the books.

 

We've kind of moved from "the show is not like the books" into "the show is including stuff from the books!" territory.  

 

[Agitel]

11 minutes ago, flinn said:

 While I dont think Lan and Moiraine are having sex, it is certainly implied to the audience to mislead them.

 

 They have a 5 minute conversation about the bond and then the warders all head to the tents to bang their Aes Sedai, then Lan gets up saying the same thing and head to Moiraines tent. Certainly they want to red herring the relationship, so hard for me to see why so many seem to be upset that people think they might be having sex.

 

The immediately following conversation between Lan and Moiraine, though, makes it clear that interaction was platonic. There's no sexual tension in that ending, and I'd be upset and sensitive to it if I thought there was any.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Agitel

[MasterAblar]

A few more things come to mind about the episode;

 

- Liandrin saying it's far harder to maintain a shield than to break through it... is weird. Obviously if Logain isn't trying to break through the shield actively and the shielders are constantly maintaining that shield than they would be expending more energy. However I'm fairly certain that it is easier to hold a shielded on someone once they are shield than it is to place it in the first place. Which technically they had a much harder time shielding him again once the shield was broken, particularly since he was evidently holding back before. I still feel like it gives the wrong idea somewhat.

 

- It's a good thing Moiraine isn't around when Rand starts hearing LTT. Sure it's his madness but he's still the DR.

 

- Nyneave letting loose looks absolutely amazing. Her hair going wild with her braid unwinding really brings across the sheer emotional turmoil she was undergoing. Incidentally in the extras Rosamund mentioned that Nyneave's accesses the power through tremoundous feeling such as the urge to protect someone. So it might not be uniquely anger for Nyneave now but rather a powerful emotion in general.

Edited November 26, 2021 by MasterAblar

[MasterAblar]

Also I love how when Thom kick the fade away it seems to just glide across the floor rather than stumble. Small details are nice.

[Jaysen Gore]

As to MasterAblar's statement on the previous page re: Steppin, I took that to mean he was laughing at Nyn's reaction, not Lan and Moiraine; it was the chuckle of a man watching someone fall for his friend.

 

And re:" Liandrin saying it's far harder to maintain a shield than to break through it... is weird" it may have to do with a change in the way shields work for the TV show; if they're changing them so people can reach the source, but not doing anything with it, than if the shielded person keeps drawing, it increases the pressure pressing against the shield from the inside and , and becomes harder and harder to hold. But all the person inside is doing is drawing on the power, which is easy

[JenniferL]

22 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

 

We've kind of moved from "the show is not like the books" into "the show is including stuff from the books!" territory.  

 

I do occasionally wonder if we’ve all been reading the same books.