Will "Taimandred" be a thing in TV Series?

[Rhettles]

Once upon a time ... In an age long past and an Age yet to come, Robert Jordan blew a lot of wind that made it sound like Demandred and Mazrim Taim were secretly the same person.  

Then all the fan theories sprouted and Jordan seemed to change his mind.  

Since the series is set to streamline the WOT character line up,  what are the odds this little chestnut will be a thing? 

I'd be ok with it, and it would make sense for the story and would be a nice way to pay homage to the long term WOT fanbase too imo

What do you think? ?

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Rhettles
Typo

[DojoToad]

All speculation at this point.  I like it, but also fine with them being separate.  I think it would be better if they were the same - Taim always did have trouble bending the knee to the Dragon, and this would give Taim more reason to resent Rand other than just being ignored along with the rest of the Black Tower.

[Beidomon]

I hope they make this change. The whole hiding out in Shara thing was dumb. And it's pretty clear RJ did it as a deliberate middle finger to annoying fans.

[DaddyFinn]

I want to see Manfear

[TheDreadReader]

I think and I hope ..... yes.

 

I think the position of Taim and Logain gets switched.  Logain starts the tower.   Taimandred joins the tower as Taim and subverts it from within.  Shara gets ditched.  That speculation seems to fit best with the whole expand Logain's storyline approach to me.

 

 

[mogi68]

I think that Taimandred should absolutely be a thing!

[Elder_Haman]

It would certainly help the writers. Very hard to pull off a "surprise villain" ending in a TV show. So they either risk a GoT style backlash or invest a bunch of time writing Bao into the show earlier.

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

It would certainly help the writers. Very hard to pull off a "surprise villain" ending in a TV show. So they either risk a GoT style backlash or invest a bunch of time writing Bao into the show earlier.

I personally never liked the Taimandred theory.

 

The good news with a TV series, they could do all the stuff Demanded was up to on screen.

 

 

In the books, the offscreen approach was a smack to the head.  Had they included that story line, the books would have been soo much longer... Yet, it would also feel weird to incorporate it, without a character we know, going there.

 

But I guess Rand was given that plot hook with the silk worm guy, but his arrogance over "silk trees" lost him that leed.

[CaddySedai]

Anything that makes the adaptation easier is fine by me. 

[mogi68]

15 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I personally never liked the Taimandred theory.

 

The good news with a TV series, they could do all the stuff Demanded was up to on screen.

 

 

In the books, the offscreen approach was a smack to the head.  Had they included that story line, the books would have been soo much longer... Yet, it would also feel weird to incorporate it, without a character we know, going there.

 

But I guess Rand was given that plot hook with the silk worm guy, but his arrogance over "silk trees" lost him that leed.

 

Taimandred wasn't a theory. It was a fact as of the release of Lord of Chaos, at least. 

https://twitter.com/Terez27/status/1289115504687427584/photo/2

https://www.theoryland.com/forums/discussion/8767

 

Not only that, but

Spoiler

Taimandred killed Asmodean

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by mogi68

[Pandemonium]

Shara should be taken out of the show

doesn't really serve a point.  The channelers were generic and their allegiance to the dark one never explained.  Eugene kills the channelers but she could have just as easily killed the remaining black ajah or rogue ashaman

 

As for Demandred having him masquerade as Taim would work better to develop the final boss.  one interesting thing is taim seemed to hate swords and demanded is an expert.  I wonder if they take out the Lan killing Demandred scene as well.  

[SinisterDeath]

57 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

 

Taimandred wasn't a theory. It was a fact as of the release of Lord of Chaos, at least. 

I'm aware of the history of Taimandred.
And not to split hairs, but Theory is still applicable. After all "Theory" isn't merely speculation. ? 

[Elder_Haman]

5 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

Shara should be taken out of the show

doesn't really serve a point.  The channelers were generic and their allegiance to the dark one never explained.  Eugene kills the channelers but she could have just as easily killed the remaining black ajah or rogue ashaman

I agree with all of this. Except I think that the Sharans were just following Bao and unaware that they served the Dark. Bao fulfilled their prophecies, so they followed him.

[king of nowhere]

As far as I understand, Shara as a whole served the dark one. Which is why they were so secretive, they wouldn't want to advertise the thing outside.

 

And personally, I'd be unhappy if it was cut out entirely. It's a continent as large as Seanchan, and yet it seem to have no impact on the story. It is occasionally mentioned on passing, never serving any plot purpose. What a waste. Those ancient aes sedai may as well have sunk it to the bottom of the ocean.

Just as I'm sad that the books never used the land of the madmen. I would have liked to see it.

[Rose]

I felt that the whole Shara thing was very unsatisfying because it pretty much came out of left field. It was jarring in a series where everything is so meticulously set up and the payoffs are so satisfying. It was also kind of disappointing because up to what point WoT had done a great job of not going the generic fantasy route of foreign barbarians who serve the Big Bad and invade from the East... Until Shara showed up. It seemed very shallow and stereotypical especially in contrast to how deeply nuanced and well-developed everything else in the series is. So I'd be happy it was just cut entirely and we get Taimandred instead. It would make for a tighter, better-rounded and more compelling story anyway.

[Tim]

I agree with the above re the pointlessness of the Shara plot. It was hard to care about the Sharans in and of themselves (other than to the extent that their and Demandred's appearance raised The Last Battle's degree of difficulty), and the sudden introduction of the whole Bao storyline seemed lazy from a plotting perspective - which is kinda contrary to the entire WOT raison d'etre.

 

I don't think cutting the plot out entirely would do much harm. Prior to the last book, Shara did not exist for all intents and purposes: as readers, we obsessed over it and the question of whether it would play a role because we obsessed over all such stray references given they typically resulted in later substantive plot developments. In the context of the show, I can't see that there would ever be a reason to even mention Shara.

 

That said, if Taimandred is resurrected, the dynamic necessarily would be different to the books: unless we never see Demandred as himself, we would know pretty quickly that Demandred and Taim were one and the same. LTT's ramblings become redundant at that point. So the mystery falls away.

 

Conversely, from a show perspective, once you know Taim is bad (which in the books is put absolutely beyond doubt in... Winter's  Heart? It was obvious earlier though), then whether or not Taim is also Demandred is not very important I think.  I suspect for (new) viewers the theory of the Forsaken won't be terribly interesting in and of itself, so a late-in-the-piece reveal that Taim is also Demandred wouldn't mean that much, and I doubt viewers will be sitting there wondering why there is a Forsaken not accounted for.

 

Given the above, if I was managing this, I would:

1. Make Taim and Demandred the same.

2. Not reveal Demandred in any scenes until after Dumai's Wells, so that it's initially unclear whether Taim is good or evil. Effectively the question for viewers is not "is Taim Demandred" but rather "is Taim to be trusted?"

3. Reveal that Taim is Demandred (perhaps by him showing up at a Forsaken meeting) pretty much immediately after Dumai's Wells. The dramatic tension is then that the viewer knows Taim is a threat but Rand (presumably) does not.

 

I'd also definitely dispense with Osan'gar/Dashiva (and Aran'gar/Halima, but that's a separate issue) - one Forsaken amongst the Asha'man is enough.

[Dreamwalker]

I started a reread in the run up to the show and just got to LoC. I read the first Taim/Rand interaction where he takes him to the farm/proto Black Tower, immediately thought how much it feels like setting up Taimandred and how it would be a better reveal at the end. And that this would be the perfect thing to combine in the show. I fired up my 10 year old account to come post this but as I should've suspected you guys have had the same idea ?

 

Anyway I think this would make a more satisfy ending to these plotlines on the show.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Dreamwalker

[Kalessin]

I think people watching the show would think the two are the same - Mazrim Taim and Demandred are always described as having an identical physical appearance. Mazrim Taim's identity as Demandred could be explained by retconning Mazrim Taim's murder by Demandred, who then takes his place - Mazrim Taim was going insane by that time, so he never really understands what is happening to him until Demandred's final attack, and Demandred takes over his appearance with the Saldaean officers and their wives, eaving them effectively cored/pithed and useless for anything other than serving.