Ghostbusters Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Wins!

[Turin Turambar]

I'm feeling good about John so far. I hope it continues so I can start building my town core.

 

And as I said in my list of thought, I don't trust Shad.

 

[v]Shad[/v]

 

Haven't seen anything remotely scummy yet, and this is a good place to add some pressure IMO.

This is Eld's bad vote on Shad on D1

BFG responds quickly...

Can you expand on Shad?

This is a typical Why? question that BFG frequently asks. could be something could be nothing.

[Eldrick4221]

SHAD ISO Part 1

 

 

--> I'm ignoring some communication/reads on conf players for simplicity, so if you notice those are absent, that's why.

 

Page 1

- probably his first 10-12 posts are fluff and have nothing to do with the game, gives some meta on Zander,

- AtBFG post re: Zander is null

- At Eld: Eldrick had voted Shad because he didn't trust him due to past mistakes, Shad asks if he's superstitious as a joke. States that he heavily pocketed Eld in GnD and the distrust is null. (Link to last post in the string) Nothing really in this exchange that I can say sways either way for Eldrick, I like that Lenlo questioned it even though he wasn't caught up (post 296) Also, #182 relates to this to, it's a post by Turin that's turning Eldrick's strange voting thing around because he's treating Shad and Dice differently atp: Eld or Turin could be maf here

- Asks if Turin touched base on Zander being scum since he put him in the YOLO scum list: "what made you think he and Dice might be w/w?" Either Shad picked up on hints here for neighbors or Turin is the mafia neighbor and Shad is leading him to it. Not going to make assumptions, this could be a totally null post, but that he singles out Zander is odd. **Reading back on this again: ELDRICK states that he already touched base on Dice and Zander, Turin says Tsuki is the most YOLO of the three, but then Shad focuses in on Zander without going back to look. So that does kind of look awkard there.

 

Page 2

- Defends Eldrick: says he's town based on him discrediting a push by Tsuki

- Pushes Tsuki pretty early

- He asks a lot of questions I think that's another thing that pinged me even though I didn't mention it: Shad is always up for offering opinions and conclusions, not so much purely asking questions in a BFG manner. I expect that from BFG, not from Shad

- Link Interaction with Zander about a post from Turin re: if Turin was implying Z calling himself town was townie or something. Shad specifically wnats Turin to explain what he meant.

- Starts casing Tsuki, bothered by Dice's easy town read of Z but thinks Dice's push on Turin was townie, "if not particularly moving"; a little straight up defense of Dice irt Zander, which makes Z look bad; he's particularly snippy towards Zander which is unusual- and is suggesting Zander go look at Dice's stuff on Turin himself, but he's already painting Z in a bad light compared to Turin.

- Link: Going back to what was mentioned earlier irt Turin leaving out reasoning on Zander, still feels like Shad is leading him to it. I'm trying to figure out how natural is was for Shad to bring up Zander or if it was even necessary. The answer is no. It doesn't come of natural at all, makes Turin look bad here.

 

Page 3

- Shad's immediate response to Turin claiming Neighbor. He brings up good points here asking about Zander and his behavior in QT.

- Null post at Niniel, another null post, focusing in on Zander as most were, again Shad pinging for leading Zander on and just letting him sink himself; I think Shad's characterization of Zander was wrong. Meh, what's did is done, I'll know better in the future

 

Page 4

I need to get to sleep. GTH town atp is Tsuki Eldrick Hallia Laine, kind of want to include Rey on that list too.

 

I'll chew on the Turin/Zander/Dice situation.

First of all, doesn't mention Niniel, Lenlo, BFG. Not a big deal but I think they were all kinda active at that point, maybe BFG a little less so. But there's no reason he shouldn't have provided a read on them.

 

Secondly, the Turin/Zander/Dice thing. He led Turin the revealing the Zander QT thing and has done nothing but attack Zander and question him and didn't even LOOK at Turin, though tbh Turin was in a good spot at this point. Dice he had had a town read on and I hadn't seen any progression besides what was happening in thread with Turin/Dice and the TMI stuff. Meh.

 

- A lot of this page was directed at Zander

- Disagrees with BFG on Z meta irt length of joke phase as v/w but doesn't want to go check and see if he's right even though he asked the question in the first place. Seems an odd thing to ask of a teammate and then brush off, so +1 for BFG/Nikon. Eventually decides Z doesn't have a tell on fluff at the start of game.

- Found a good BFG nugget here where she's supporting Zander for the out of thread content being the basis for Turin calling Zander mafia and Shad's response is basically "why is this any less significant". It can't be proven. This case was built on hearsay and yet everyone, including Shad went to Turin's side because he claimed first. I would expect more sound reasoning from Shad (shrug)

- @Turin Shad was in THREE game D1, might be why I was giving him leniency. Forgot he was in Eldrick's game too.

- Bottom of page states that Eldrick has been villagery this game and he'll hard defend if he has to. Town spew? (thumbsup)

 

Page 5

- Shad's "why Turin is town regardless"

- Scum doesn't say this to a teammate: BFG

- More Turin support, yet Shad says he's leaning v/v on Turin/Zander. His thread pushes didn't indicate that to me. Votes RTE, following Zander's lead to cfd basically, I forget how TOWNIE Shad can be sometimes as scum danggit,

Tsuki*- Cop

Turin*- Neighbor

 

Eldrick- Peeked Town

Laine- Town

 

Zander- Dead Town

Hallia- Dead DOC Town

Reyoru- Dead Gov Town

Lenlo/SOOH- jailkeeper

 

Dice- Dead Stump- Town

Niniel

BFG/Nikon - (he's not treating her like a teammate thus far)

 

RTE- Dead Symp- MAFIA

 

^Trimmed this down a little bit. There was a special note about Lenlo/Sooh scooting under the radar or something and how that's a good thing. Besides that, I added in current alignments and roles to his list

 

1. The group above all the dead towns. At least one of those is scum. I'm more likely to believe we have a cop and a peeked town than I am to believe that BOTH neighbors were town. And Shad certainly treated Turin like he could be a teammate and it was awful.

2. At the bottom: Niniel and Nikon. I would vote Niniel over Nikon every time. Like I put in there, Shad was treating BFG like she was town. And even though Nikon hasn't caught up, he's REALLY trying right now. Niniel on the other hand had limited interaction with Shad, there were a lot of null posts and he doesn't try to read her or even provide a read on her in his first reads list which is strange because he had some kind of read on MOST everyone else who was heavily involved in thread at the time. Odd because Niniel was pretty consistently in thread and they communicated. Besides that, Niniel has fallen off a bit since early game and that's sus by itself, bomb or not.

3. Remaining scum is Turin/Niniel, that's game solve. If for some reason it's NOT, I would move into Sooh, Tsuki, then Eldrick in that order, but it should never come to that.

 

 

 

Page 6: Stopping at the top of this page of Shad ISO. Just can't do anymore tonight and it's 1am and I've been up WAY too long.

Points I want to address bolded in quote for context, but also listed here.

 

Also, #182 relates to this to, it's a post by Turin that's turning Eldrick's strange voting thing around because he's treating Shad and Dice differently atp: Eld or Turin could be maf here

How is Turin's response to this scummy? You thought the reasoning was bad too.

 

Either Shad picked up on hints here for neighbors or Turin is the mafia neighbor and Shad is leading him to it. 

I don't see how this has to do with neighbors. Turin was already suspecting Zander and Dice for seperate reasons. Shad tried to make a link between them.

 

but he's already painting Z in a bad light compared to Turin.

That does not mean that Zander/Turin were v/w. Scum would do the same thing with v/v. Pick one to work a lynch on. He picked Zander.

 

But there's no reason he shouldn't have provided a read on them.

I don't follow. He listed his town reads. He didn't list scum reads. That makes the unlisted people Null/Unsorted.

 

While we are on the topic of that list, I explained earlier how I felt that there would be a scum in that list. You are literally the only one left it could be.

 

 

GTH town atp is Tsuki (uncc'd town cop) Eldrick (peeked town) Hallia (dead town) Laine, kind of want to include Rey (dead town) on that list too.

[Eldrick4221]

Dice, your input please.

[Eldrick4221]

and I would still like for you to detail why Turin and Niniel are scum IYO

[Turin Turambar]

 

Official Vote count

 

Dice (1): Turin

RTE (4): Hallia, Dice, Eldrick, Lenlo

Tsuki (1): Alanna

Alanna (1): Tsuki

 

 

Not voting (5): Niniel, BFG, Shad, Rey, RTE

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to achieve a majority Lynch

 

 

Deadline is Tuesday 19 April @ 21.00GMT (due to the weekend). You can achieve a majority vote at any point prior to this.

 

Countdown to end of Day 2 Deadline

train looks pretty lazy :/

 

I don't like this post.

 

casting shade at possibly 4 townies.

 

Hallia - dead TOWN doc

Dice - dead TOWN stump

Eldrick - viewed?? Town VT

Lenlo/ Sooh - claimed Town Jailkeeper

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Official Vote count

 

Dice (1): Turin

RTE (4): Hallia, Dice, Eldrick, Lenlo

Tsuki (1): Alanna

Alanna (1): Tsuki

 

 

Not voting (5): Niniel, BFG, Shad, Rey, RTE

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to achieve a majority Lynch

 

 

Deadline is Tuesday 19 April @ 21.00GMT (due to the weekend). You can achieve a majority vote at any point prior to this.

 

Countdown to end of Day 2 Deadline

train looks pretty lazy :/

 

I don't like this post.

 

casting shade at possibly 4 townies.

 

Hallia - dead TOWN doc

Dice - dead TOWN stump

Eldrick - viewed?? Town VT

Lenlo/ Sooh - claimed Town Jailkeeper

 

Eh. It was a lazy train. It was primarily based on his not dying D1.

[Eldrick4221]

Also you didn't like it either :P

[Turin Turambar]

@Laine

 

My reasoning for Dice isn't likely to convince anyone else :(

 

 

There were two posts early on 'not gonna tell you cos I don't want to' sort of thing that I have as more likely town indicators - enough so that I remember looking at Dice all squinty eyed in Matrix when he was so amenable when I was asking him questions (and then I got distracted by Cory lol! me). I know this seems like a really small thing, but I think it says a lot for his mind set (although this is something I will never be able to use again) in terms of town! Dice not bothering about who he makes an 'enemy' or trying to keep people 'friendly', whereas mafia! Dice does.

 

His early vote on Turin felt really natural as well, it wasn't 'overexplained'

 

I liked his conversation with Zander/Turin - although I'd like him to clarify his continued town read of Turin once he realised he hasn't claimed neighbourizer

 

I have some tinfoil over the John thing, the action is neutral, but he kept returning to it and moved on AFTER Ithi told him to, so no way of knowing if that was something he'd 'bury' himself in.

 

 

And I'll admit that I become less confident later on, I don't know where his read/vote on RTE comes from and towards the end of Day 1 his content is mostly about mechanics, although even then there's reads in there.

 

And there isn't much from Day 2 that's genuinely alignment indicative, I liked his responses to Rey

 

So it's a shakier read than it was halfway through Day 1, but I'd still say town by a fair margin

Not fond of this one either. Especially the bolded sections.

 

first one is that she changes her read on Dice because of his push at RTE (mafia). Second is that she likes that he is pushing at Rey (Town).

 

 

I think that mafia believed the Stump claim and worked to try to pocket him knowing that if they defended they would have him on their side talking in thread.  

 

[Turin Turambar]

Also you didn't like it either :P

Fair enough. 

 

I wanted people to give their reasons. This looks more like casting shade at these particular people. Who were at least half town, possibly all town. 

[Eldrick4221]

I agree with your point about Mafia believing the stump claim. They knew he wasn't scum. There's a good chance they believed the claim.

 

That's what I meant about the TMI slip concerning interactions with him.

[Eldrick4221]

BTW your 180 on me is very surprising. I'm glad you finally realized it, but you still haven't explained why you thought I was scum in the first place.

 

Except for the interactions between Shad and myself. Was there anything else?

[Eldrick4221]

Eating some Wild White Nacho doritos. They aren't bad, persay, but with every bite, my brain goes "There should be a jalepeño taste to these too"

[Turin Turambar]

Last BFG post 

 

 

I'm ISOing Rey and Shad but have a tab open to talk.

Probably don't want to lynch RTE, partly thread environment and I thought last night was good.

There is no evidence that she ISO'd Shad...

 

 

Jumped ahead to his posts because I'm short on time. Meh. Nothing overtly scummy about them. His 'bothered that Shad has been null all game' stands out because I felt like I was a pretty obvious villager early on. I recognize my game's dwindled, but I struggle to see how he was completely null on my D1 play. Votes Hallia--a fairly non-consensus move. I think scum would have found an excuse to vote Dice or Rey unless they're team mates--and I rather doubt at least Dice is--since they were more viable alternatives to his lynch, but he does have those two low enough to justify a switch if needed.

I wish I'd been on to ask him why he's not voting Dice.  He'd argued yesterday that a town Zander made Dice likely wolf, and I challenged that but he stuck to it at the time.  I don't know if it's good he was willing to vote elsewhere or bad that he had nothing more to say on that.

Not self pres voting is null for RTE, he only voted (mafia) Dice in HP because I yelled at him to iirc

 

Defends RTE. Even from Shad. Mafia on each side of a situation???

 

[v]Rey[/v]

Votes REy. She did unvote after REy claimed. Not sure if it was before or after me and Tsuki did. 

 

BFG i like your ISO makes me think I'm more right and not crazy

 

i'm struggling with wifi right now so bear with me and responses

This is about Alanna voting Rey (Town). 

 

 

Meh,

I've been lazy and absent and low effort for at least half this game. I don't expect to be town read for it. It just felt good to be right in spite of all that, and the wave of "Shad next" posts sort of burst my bubble.

Where do you want to look next?

 

Shad doesn't respond to this. I think he was unhappy at the game at this point. 

 

Need to look at Shad/Eldrick/LenloSooh tomorrow

Still never happened. 

 

 

 

BFG says she was gonna look at shad but doesn't appear to have done so before leaving. It could be that she just didn't have time. I'm also wondering if there was difference of opinion in the QT about if RTE was the symp and if he should just be bussed or not. There is another bit of conversation between Alanna and Shad that looks odd too. I think it is on page 118-119.

 

Fun Fact: Shad admits that he has been lazy and low effort.   

[Turin Turambar]

Eldrick. The shad thing was a big part early. Your stance about him. Then the cross defense that was weird on D1. REy explained my thoughts pretty well in his case against both of you. There are other bits between you and Alanna that make me wonder too. 

 

You also have a knack for saying things that sound really bad. I would have to go thru all your posts to find them. 

 

 

Okay, Gonna look a Nikon next to see if there is anything at all there. 

[Turin Turambar]

Okay, to page 100 and about to take a quick break to make a sandwich and salad for dinner.

 

So far My reads list (Towniest to Scummiest) would be

 

Eldrick

Alanna

Turin

Dice

Niniel

Sooh

Tsuki

 

I think the cop role is one which probably would exist (it has been in all of my games) so may just be a bad read on tsuki and willing to put them aside for now unless multiple people also see something off about their posts.  Kind of wondering if Jailkeeper + Doc would BOTH be valid roles since both are protectors and that seems a little strong unless mafia team has some other counter roles.

 

So I'd say probably Sooh and either Dice or Niniel are my best bets up to this point unless I'm completely reading people wrong or if there are some big changes in my reads in the next 60 pages.

 

Not much at all from Nikon. Mostly reasons/excuses for his lack of activity and recaps of his read up. The Shad vote does seem like a pop in. Most of his real contribution is talking about setup type stuff. 

 

His reads are Meh to me. Not much there.

 

He did not vote at all on D4. Safe to not give anything away. 

 

I would be willing to vote here at this point. Moreso due to BFG actual content and also to Nikon lack of content at all. 

 

I will try to read up on Niniel next. 

[Eldrick4221]

Good point about BFG. A lot of saying shes going to do work, and then no follow up.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

I wonder if RTE's flip would read different depending on whether or not mafia recruited him?

 

 

 

Day 2 Result

RTE has been Lynched. He was ...

Winston Zeddemore - Mafia Symp
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFX4fmldZFs"]

 

I suppose not. It's pretty non-descript. Unless it would have just shown Mafia Goon after recruit and we'd never know he was a symp in that case.

 

From other games I think it would have read  "Symp- converted to mafia goon"

 

 

I think this confirms that RTE was most likely recruitable. Maybe even that they tried to get him N1 and only got back the the recruit failed. (more credence to TOWN Sooh. At least for me) 

 

Who else cast doubt on the RTE recruit possibility?? 

[Turin Turambar]

BTW I did look through Niniel's posts. Not much either way there were a few things that sort of pinged but I think there were other things that were totally outside of her mafia range. Not gonna bother posting either tho. 

 

I am becoming more and more convinced it is Alanna and Nikon at this point. 

[Eldrick4221]

Thread search for "recruitable" got me this.

 

Symp may or may not know who the mafia team are. Mafia may or may not know who the symp is. Symp may or may not be recruitable.

I think their are DM definitions somewhere I'll dig them out

 

BFG pointed out that they may or may not be, before she and Rey posted Nolder's description.

 

Also, can't remember if I said this ITT  yet, but I think the symp was recruitable.

 

His character was Winston, who in the movie is the guy that got hired on to the ghostbuster team. Thematically makes sense for the symp to be "hireable"

Yeah. I'm trying to figure how how and why that matters.

 

Like, does that change the # of mafia you assume there are?

 

I'm trying to get where you're getting at.

 

Yeah. I'm trying to figure how how and why that matters.

 

Like, does that change the # of mafia you assume there are?

 

I'm trying to get where you're getting at.

 

It matters only as much as the discussion of whether the symp was recruitable matters. I think he was.

 

It's not particularly important. I believe there are 3 mafia and explained recently my thoughts on the balance.

 

It was just a side thought that I realized I hadn't shared with you guys. It doesn't matter at all in terms of game solve.

 

 

Laine questioned me on why it mattered if he was recruitable.

 

AFAICT nobody actually suggested he wasn't.

[Eldrick4221]

Yup. Can't recruit him if he's jailed :)

[Eldrick4221]

I think it's given atp to say that Nikon is scum. 

 

Anyone have good reasons to say otherwise?

[Ithillian Turambar]

Daylight approaches ...

[Ithillian Turambar]

Shhhhhhhh

[Ithillian Turambar]

Shhhhhhhh

[Ithillian Turambar]

Night 4 results

 

Tsuki is Dead. He was:

 

 

Jennifer the ESP volunteer - Town - Cop

 

 

 

Turin is Dead. He was:

 

 

Dana Barrett - Town - Neighbour

 

 

 

 

It is now Day 5.

 

Day 5 Deadline is 9pm BST Sunday 1 May or you can achieve a majority Lynch any time before.

 

 

With 5 alive it takes 3 to achieve a majority Lynch

 

 

not voting (5): Eldrick, Niniel, Nikon, Sooh, Alanna

 

 

I'll update the front pages tonight when I can use my laptop :)