[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

[Sili Quirrels]

Wolves bus clov.

[Clovdyx]

Yes, I'm aware. Which is why I asked if you thought Nomi was mafia. You said null iirc, which led to that entire conversation

[Cory Caboose]

Expect me to be emotionally detached and somewhat testy for awhile

I will try my best to not be overly acerbic but for a variety of reasons I am absolutely out of patience

[Hallia]

Mmm.  Catching up, I see that my initial read of Pral was spot on.  Totally wrong on Rack, but he didn't exactly make it easy to read him properly.  

[Zander?]

Expect me to be emotionally detached and somewhat testy for awhile

I will try my best to not be overly acerbic but for a variety of reasons I am absolutely out of patience

 

 

WHO HAS DONE THIS TO YOU MY SWEET PRINCE??!!! 

[Zander?]

Mmm.  Catching up, I see that my initial read of Pral was spot on.  Totally wrong on Rack, but he didn't exactly make it easy to read him properly.  

 

Hallia Eyes Only

 

 

 

 

LMK if you like this song

tyty

[Shad_]

You know, I didn't even realize you'd been town reading Pral up until right before you voted him until you said that. I can't really knock it though because I didn't think Pral's initial posts were terribly scummy but he took a dive down the pile when he started engaging with Cory.

[Shad_]

Honestly this post

 

 

 

Going back and reading Cory, if I read you alone I come up with villager.  Does that mean I drop the vibe from Laine altogether?  No, but it does put you higher on my list. <3  I really like these recent points on Pral.  I think I was taken in by his early posting, but this response he just posted:

 

And, that's how you got the cop killed in that game. I am not taunting here, but you tend to have a massive confirmation bias in trying to read me and that is annoying to see every game. You basically try to come up with reasons to look at me as scum and then end with with nonsensical reasons how my playstyle is different this game as compared to the previous. The only common thing about my games is that I am a low-poster D1 and D2. 

 

The reason for that is that I hate D1s. I find it extremely difficult to catch up 15+ pages per day. Hence, I tend to be more active and effective D3+ when the post count has toned down, when I have more information due to flips and wagons etc. D1 is all about tone/meta based reasoning which in most cases is just erroneous and like a dart thrown around. So, if I am inactive D1 it is by preference and not necessarily based on alignment. 

 

Have at it however you want but that is how I play.

 

The problem is that your playstyle doesn't keep you from ever randing wolf. You can lecture me on how you were a villager in Ragnarok, but I've seen games where you've gone deep as a wolf despite contributing very little and players just went "Oh it's just Pral being Pral".

 

You don't get a free villager read for being you, and other players are more villagery for you, so exactly why do you deserve to be higher in my PoE?

 

If you think D1 is erroneous or meaningless I have no idea what to tell you. I have something like a ~60% d1 wolf lynch rate, and games where villages lynch wolves on d1 end in village victories a very good clip of the time because there is a great deal to glean from it.

 

Why are you a villager, Pral? Besides that this is "how you always play". I don't care at all how you play, I care about whether or not you are a villager. Capiche?

 

 

 

Like you are basically saying "I deserve to get a pass on d1 and d2 because I don't think those days are important"

 

Why do you deserve to live more than people trying on d1 and d2 Pral? What makes you exempt from the rules everyone else lives by in this game?

 

 

 

Also, as I said before, the later the game goes, the more you can glean out of me. D1 and D2, I don't care much either as town or scum.

Pral - you know I love you and I love playing with you and that I think you bring a perspective to the game that is different and weird and almost always appreciated. My question to you is; how do we get you to post more often?

 

I ask you this because your activity becomes a talking point in ~every game. And people often use that as an excuse to vote you. Take Cory as an example. I have already posted for you a snippet of what Cory thinks about activity AS A WOLF. When he is scum, he likes to "kill the smart, active villagers above all else..." It stands to reason that as Town he would want to lynch the dumb or inactive villagers in lieu of a better scum read. It also stands to reason that as wolf he could find himself getting stuck pushing on inactive users when he doesn't think he can get the mislynch he is looking for.

 

TLDR - If I could get you to post more and be more active and, in general, make yourself an unlynchable Townie that would be great. If you're a wolf I will be upset with you this game but ask you to accommodate this request in future Town games.

 

 

 

 

Pral - you know I love you and I love playing with you and that I think you bring a perspective to the game that is different and weird and almost always appreciated. My question to you is; how do we get you to post more often?

The reason I am inactive on D1 is because I have a hard time catching up with the pace of the game. The game content massively reduces from D2 onwards and that is when I am more active - also due to better information available. I have been getting killed either by town or by 3rd party by D2 in all the recent games and that is probably one of the reasons for my annoyance.

 

 

Is scummy.  Game content doesn't massively reduce from D2 onwards.  It can become more focused, but with quotes, and people having better arguments and more evidence to base those arguments off of, will be longer.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Pral

 

 

 

makes me feel pretty comfortable calling you town, because I grasp your thought process and scum!Hallia doesn't have one.

[Hallia]

Thanks Shad.

 

@Zander - Nah, not for me.

[Zander?]

i hate to say this cause im town reading Nomi but his thread presence the last few days is starting to worry me.

[Zander?]

Mmm.  Catching up, I see that my initial read of Pral was spot on.  Totally wrong on Rack, but he didn't exactly make it easy to read him properly.  

 

 

Thanks Shad.

 

@Zander - Nah, not for me.

 

 

and still not catch up post??

 

where you at Poutine Lover??!!!

 

NEED TO SEE YOU #PUTINTHEWORK!!!!!

[dicetosser1]

thanks clov.

[Zander?]

this is the day 1 that doesnt end...it goes on and on my friends...start people started playing it not knowing how it ends...and they continued playing it not knowing when it ends

[Zander?]

OMGOMGOMG!!!!!!

 

 

THE THREAD IS ALIVE!!!!! ITS ALIVE!!!!

[BFG]

Town:

 

Sili - I can follow his process reasonably easily, a few times when he moves to vote someone I've felt suspicious, although for different reasons/posts.

 

Shad - still the same as before. Contrast between this and Grimm are night and day, his focus is pretty broad, while fact checking the details. A little reserved on his suspects early on. Asked questions I would have asked, there are a couple of things we jumps exactly opposite on (reminder to come back to these)...

 

Thane - early, continuous involvement, would have to gain access to SG to see his 'best' mafia game though :/ Again, a few of his vote jumps make sense with what I was thinking at the time, although again for different reasons.

 

Zander - there is more explanation for his positions (which is generally missing from his mafia game), and a lot of enthusiasm. He's handling multiple suspects, which is again out of his mafia game, although a lot of that is just saying they're mafia whenever they're mentioned. May be worth noting that Zander didn't jumps on Shad fir voting Corlanna early on. Also will need to ISO to see what the tunnel looks like and suspect I'll be going back to some of his old games.

 

 

 

 

Probable Town:

 

Yates - I don't really have any reason to suspect Yates, but his argument with Cory on Friday reminded me a little of his argument with Cory in Discworld, the big difference in this game is that Yates has no need of the sympathy :p Overall he seems extremely townie though. Not sure what he means when he says that Cory has been pushing Rack ALL day, when in reality Cory's barely said anything to Rack, just voted him for #reasons

 

Dice - I really keep yo yo ing here, but If Nomi is mafia, LOCKCLEAR. In his argument with Nomi Dice wins on tone, cleanness, conviction, etc, BUT I still don't like his reason for sussing Nomi and he CAN push strong players (admittedly an assumption here, but one that seems reasonable) as mafia - he went pretty hard at Tommy in the Avengers, although I suspect part of that was genuine frustration cos LOL!TommyGalactus or Apocolypse or whichever big bad it was that he claimed XD. I need to keep watching here, but probably town. The 'problem' is that Dice is going to be pissed at the idea of alt accounts regardless of his alignment, so it's a way that he 'could' have real conviction as mafia HOWEVER, even though I don't agree with the contradiction, the fact that Dice spotted it is probably indicative that he's really paying attention to the thread and that's more likely to come from Town!Dice.

 

 

 

 

Null-mafia (semi-ordered)

 

Sooh - top of the list mostly because I empathise with the low poster reaction (which is a bad reason really). A few emotional responses that felt genuine. Need to ISO.

 

Lenlo - I don't hate arguments on him as such, and there were occasionalosts where he assumed he'd have bad tone (but that may mean nothing). I don't dislike his posting, early on he had reasonable breadth of interest and I don't think he defends himself well, but he did try to work round Zander, unfortunately that's apparently not how Zander thinks. Generally continuous presence and focus (should probably look through US again)

 

Clov - if I filter out the me stuff I'm mostly feeling all right about Clov and he should probably be higher, but I can't filter out the 'me' stuff, I'll get back to this in a bit, running out of time now.

 

Tabor - Reads seem different to most which is refreshing. I don't remember all the reasons behind the reads and early game there seemed to be some posts for the sake of it. Need to ISO

 

Nomi - As of page 50 or so, I actually like most of his posts. The reason he's slipping down is because of his tone/responses to Dice which felt a little oily for want of a better word. Made more complicated because I don't think Dice's reason is a good one. His reason for sussing me for safe play 'padding my PC' near EOD seems odd, possibly different cultures, possibly different expectations of work (he doesn't have much to judge me on this game), all in all it was just odd. Also curious as to the apparent change in stance on Sooh start of N1, not sure if I just missed the explanation.

 

 

Hallia - mostly that vote on Pral. There was a post that I really liked from her catchup #829 in which she responds to Laine and calls Pral town. The issues are that once she's gathered a few town reads she disappears again (semi-hypocritical, whatever), and also that vote on Pral - although I'm not sure she makes that vote if teammates with Cory.

 

 

 

 

 

Corlanna is my best bet for mafia right now. I don't really have a problem with Laine's posting, it's a little thin, but she's busy and I'm not sure how to read that. Cory is, well, not town (probably). I admit there are a few posts I like, his comment about me and Clov is one I can see from him as town, but not incapable as mafia. Clov is right that some of his responses to Sili feel genuine, although again I don't think he's incapable as mafia. Finally, his arguments with Yates and Pral, I'm pretty torn as to whether I think they're genuine or not, at least in a vacuum.

 

However, Cory isn't being transparent this game. WHY did he vote Sooh early on, or Rack, or Lenlo or Nomi. Shad is his first town read, yet without being mentioned again is only 1% above null in his list half way through the game, despite later on saying that he was strong on Shad early on. Towards the end of the day Rack challenges Cory as to what he's done to resolve his slot and says he's done nothing. Cory laughs it off and says Rack should read the thread... Except in ISO Cory has done NOTHING (productive, before the challenge) to address Rack, compare this to how Town!Cory handled suspects in Ragnarok. I know that Cory changed his mind on Rack at the last minute, but didn't really do anything to change the train (I know he changed his vote and mentioned Pral a couple of times, but that's not much from Cory). Cory also has Pral as a top mafia read, for posts that could be either alignment - so why does that make him scummy? The argument could be real, I would guess that Pral frustrates him as a player, but for Cory to argue with somebody over play style seems disengenuous. I think at one stage Cory votes Nomi, but never explains why unless it's the linking with Hallia, in which case why not address Hallia first? (This is probably because Nomi is a train at the time, so a vote is more effective here tbf)(but in his read list Nomi is in the 1% above null village bracket with several people underneath and between that and the vote Cory addresses nothing to Nomi).

 

Actually back to Pral... Cory's read in Ragnarok on Pral was that Pral was different to previous town! Pral - hadn't come into thread with an early case and vote, etc. etc. etc so if that's something that Cory associates with Prals TOWN! game then it seems even odder that he was pushing him as mafia here (again it's not that Cory is WRONG about Pral not being able to make that post as mafia, but Cory associates early presence, interest and votes with Town!Pral). Beyond that Pral has a point about Cory's approach this game...

 

Cory isn't addressing his suspects directly, he's talking about us. I appreciate I haven't said a lot, but Cory confronted Hallia directly when she had him as a suspect, yet is just leaving me alone (by which I mean pointing fingers in my direction, but not actually approaching me) Not sure I buy it. If Cory thinks I'm so bad as mafia (I am), and spew teammates easily (I probably do) WHY isn't he engaging me, forcing me to give opinions on people???

 

His question to Sooh about Nomi is literally the second third time he's engaged somebody directly in a 'I want to resolve your slot' way all day. The first was engaging Hallia. When he spoke to Pral he wasn't resolving his slot, he was talking about how effective Pral is in a game. When he was speaking to Lenlo, it was literally 'think you're a wolf'. I guess you could include the change in mind on Rack EOD a resolvement.

 

In short in his most obvious town game Cory is open and forth coming with his reads, you know what they're going to be (mostly) from his focus and interest in thread, and there's none of that here, instead we have to guess why he's reading such and such a certain way. He's barely addressing his mafia reads of his own voilition, and instead is reacting to what they/we say (he still hasn't spoken to me since the game really got going, and his early response to me reads oddly formally). He's also only explained town reads after being asked (most of them anyway).

 

I'll be honest I'm not sure if his thought process about me 'doubting him because he hasn't posted a million times already' is real or not (people have feelings), but it's also not what I said. I said he isn't engaged as his most obvious town game

 

 

 

 

 

 

Random thoughts from EOD... Rack asks for suspects to shoot and is given Sooh and Pral... Why not Lenlo, who was the counter train. Maybe I need to reevaluate Lenlo again, why weren't Soon/Pral serious cw?

 

 

And underlying all this, why have people been handling me with kid gloves?

 

 

There are still too many people I need to pay attention to, but I feel happier with my understanding of what's happened.

 

What's frustrating about the voting yesterday is that most people seemed to just 'consolidate' from an early stage. I dunno, odd day really.

 

 

Apologies for any names that auto-correct butchered, I tried to catch them all.

 

 

I'll address Night 1 stuff later :)

 

 

 

The good/bad news is that if I'm wrong on Corlanna I'll probably find out soon.

[BFG]

I mean this with love

 

This is literally the last time I'm mentioning my inactivity, because it's completely null for my alignment. The reason I was mostly absent last week and only able to skim the thread was because I worked something over 60 hours (I thought/hoped/wished it was going to be under 50, but c'est la vie).

 

To state the obvious it doesn't make me town, nor does it make me mafia (which isn't to say that I don't understand that I'm in the POE /shrug).

 

You either believe me or not.

 

Ragnarok proved to me there is o 'good' way of catching up. A 100 page catch up of asking questions about stuff that was resolved days ago is pointless without new info, as is (for me) posting real time without knowing what's going on. The easiest way to catch up is head down, notepad, coffee.

 

Anyways, I was hoping to be fully caught up yesterday but cloudflare :(

 

Got to run, back later

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apologies for my absence last week.

 

 

[BFG]

Cory, are you actually going to talk to me this game

 

[y]

[n]

 

lmk?

[dicetosser1]

BFG is Town.

[Nolder]

As the various Zionites made their escape no one saw the bullet hit Soren, Captain of the Vigilant in the throat.

Unfortunately he was dead all the same.

 

 

Nomi, Soren, Vanilla Town has been killed. 

[Nolder]

It is now Day 2.

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

No deadline currently.

[Thane Vakarian]

That was rather unexpected. Wolves are gonna try to mess with us.....

[Sooh]

 

Mmm.  Catching up, I see that my initial read of Pral was spot on.  Totally wrong on Rack, but he didn't exactly make it easy to read him properly.  

 

 

Thanks Shad.

 

@Zander - Nah, not for me.

 

 

and still not catch up post??

 

where you at Poutine Lover??!!!

 

NEED TO SEE YOU #PUTINTHEWORK!!!!!

 

#Poutinethework

 

FTFY!

 

 

BFG is town and I am inclined to believe she's right about Corlanna.

[Clovdyx]

I have trouble believing you feel that way...

[Clovdyx]

I'll give a cookie to anyone who knows why.

[Clovdyx]

The point about BadG being town doesn't sound awful, if just because I find it unlikely she posts a reads list shortly before start of phase (one with the nk being a scumlean, too)