Pokemon Mafia IV: The Mystery of Heart Island--GAME OVER--TEAM ROCKET WIN

[seph]

[v]vote john snow[/v]

Lets try this again...

What exactly do you agree with ?

I am going to take a look back at the last game turin, the omgus thing is suspicious here. I want to re read zander, has he really posted anything since I voted him?

[John Snow]

 

My point was that you are now contributing to the game. Your reads lists was a point in your favor, not against. I'm going to case you for two reasons:

Either to decide you're town

Or to convince other people you're scum.

 

You're mafia on my list because I think the only reason you're hunting is because I pushed you into it. One of the things I'm going to evaluate when I case you. 

 

 

And I thoguht sheeping was just following someone and not looking for scum on your own. 

Underlined: You mean for one of two reasons I think. However you already decided that I was mafia. So you need to unconvince yourself? As to the second reason you merely want to convince other people that I am mafia? You only want to win the argument?  You should be wanting to show other people how I am mafia. You see the difference in mindset?  

 

Bold: You think too much of yourself I think. I do what I want, when I want. I decided that if I was gonna play, I was gonna play. 

 

You should be careful what you ask for. And post some funny cat pictures. 

 

 

Underlined: I'm aware that I could very well be tunnelling. I want to re-evaluate my read on you.As to the second part, your wording is better, yes. 

 

Bold: Entirely possible. 

[Mashiara Sedai]

A lot of very interesting conversations have popped up today.

 

I'd like to give Hallia the benefit of the doubt (not everyone can be glued to the computer, especially on a day when we're supposed to spend time with our mothers...).  I hope she can post something soon.  I don't want to seem like I'm holding off, and just following the crowd, but I do want to be sure of my vote when I give it.

[Darthe]

Townie JS post.

 

Mash, what are you giving Hally the benefit of the doubt on?

[Mashiara Sedai]

Darthe, this:

 

Yesterday being mothers day and today being work, I won't be able to play until the evening. If that's not good enough then keep piling on the votes I guess?

[Darthe]

That's a classic guilt trip of a post, a wolf tactic called appeal to emotion.

[Turin Turambar]

If there are spaces then there is substantial difference in thought. The groupings are graded but those are much closer. As you can see there are many others i would prefer to lynch before Hallia ATM. She hasn't had much  presence and I don't really like the train on her. Especially my top mafia read cajoling you to vote there. (Frankly I don't like your backing off him either but I am attributing it to Darthe being Darthe)

Actually, could you order everyone from t>w

Turin

 

Darthe

 

Dice

Slot #9

 

TMD

 

Hallia

Mashi

RTE

 

Seph

Eldrick

 

Thane

 

 

Zander

EP

Ley

 

 

 

Snow

[seph]

I won't be able to catch all the way up until tonight. I will get my reads list out then.

[Turin Turambar]

That's a classic guilt trip of a post, a wolf tactic called appeal to emotion.

It is also classic Hallia posting. I want more stances and opinions from her. If they don't appear then she would become a lynch candidate.

 

I still feel Snow is a much better candidate.

 

Townie JS post.

 

Mash, what are you giving Hally the benefit of the doubt on?

Explain why you like it. All I read was that he agreed that he was using a non town mindset. 

 

When does work start John? 

[Darthe]

It's got nothing to do with who I am Turin.  I read his posts and they make sense.  Whether you like what he says or not he is trying to figure things out and his progression is easy enough to follow.  

 

Others you would prefer over Hally is different from town-reading her.  Also, your top pick for wolf is being led by one of your top picks for wolf.  

[John Snow]

I leave right about now, get there an hour later, work for 4 hours, get home an hour later. 

 

I also have finals to study for so I can't promise I'll case you as soon as I get home. 

[Darthe]

 

My point was that you are now contributing to the game. Your reads lists was a point in your favor, not against. I'm going to case you for two reasons:

Either to decide you're town

Or to convince other people you're scum.

 

You're mafia on my list because I think the only reason you're hunting is because I pushed you into it. One of the things I'm going to evaluate when I case you. 

 

 

And I thoguht sheeping was just following someone and not looking for scum on your own. 

Underlined: You mean for one of two reasons I think. However you already decided that I was mafia. So you need to unconvince yourself? As to the second reason you merely want to convince other people that I am mafia? You only want to win the argument?  You should be wanting to show other people how I am mafia. You see the difference in mindset?  

 

Bold: You think too much of yourself I think. I do what I want, when I want. I decided that if I was gonna play, I was gonna play. 

 

You should be careful what you ask for. And post some funny cat pictures. 

 

 

If you don't tunnel him you'll realize that wolves almost never make statements like the underlined.  He is a target and he gives you an out here instead of relentlessly pushing you.  That speaks of uncertainty and decreases his ability to build momentum on a Turin lynch if he does build a case against you.  Similarly the bold is antagonistic, something easily turned on him.

 

I thought this was likely a townie post that you tunneled on and his response to it was to essentially shrug at you and say he is gonna try to figure it out, consistent with everything here.

 

I'm telling you those aren't things anyone would do as wolf unless they were a really advanced player.  

[Darthe]

 

That's a classic guilt trip of a post, a wolf tactic called appeal to emotion.

It is also classic Hallia posting. I want more stances and opinions from her. If they don't appear then she would become a lynch candidate.

 

 

 

But it isn't.  She is snarky and defensive as a player but she would be aggressive about this train as town.  As a wolf she would try and guilt us away from her and then lay low to let things dissipate which is exactly what she has done.  

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

1. Hallia-scum-I like EP's case on her. 

2. RTE-slight scum-post 317 says sheeping is bad for town. He's currently sheeping EP. Bears further thought. 

3. Firebird (EP)-town-solid play. Seems to be actively pushing for info. 

4. Mashiara-town-good newbie play I think. I'd like to see more posts than just her 9. 

5. dice-slight town-gut feeling mostly

6. seph-town-gut mostly. Good reads, clear thought process.

7. TMD-slight scum-I don't like his Darthe vote, or it's immediate removal when called out on it. 

8. Eldrick-town-Early claim doesn't strike me as scum move. 

9. cory-null-No one's been really playing this slot. Ithi barely posted before she left iirc. 

10. Zander-slight scum-He's coasting by, mostly just agreeing with people. Need to see more here. 

11. Turin-scum-Trying to coast by. His case on me is the first time he's posted original analysis AFAICR. He's also got a reads list finally. 

12. Ley-town-asking questions, looking for info. NA talk strikes me more as stupid than scummy. 

13. Thane-slight town-Haven't seen much of him. Would like to see more reads and opinions on current cases. 

14. John Snow-town

15. Darthe-town-Good questions, amking people back up their cases. 

 

 

Hmmm. I have 3/5 people voting me as scum or slight scum. I'm obviously wrong somewhere. 

So you are sheeping EP's case on Hallia who you have as your top suspect? I agree with it. If I was sheeping I wouldn't be looking elsewhere for scum as well. 

RTE is mafia because he is sheeping someone else? He's suspect because he says sheeping is scummy AND is only sheeping. No independent ideas. The contradiction should be clear. 

TMD is mafia for voting and then unvoting Darthe? maybe? For only unvoting when I called him out on it. The vote felt scummy, and the unvote didn't feel much better. 

Zander is mafia for coasting by? Yes, I think coasting is scummy. 

Turin is mafia for coasting, then only making a case on you and it is important that I just put out a reads list. Pop quiz: how many people haven't made a list yet? do you even know? What difference does it make? No I don't know. I haven't specifically checked. You're finally scumhunting, which I voted you originally for a lack of. At some point in the next 12-24hrs I'm going to recase you when I have time. I'm heading off to work soon and won't have time before it probs. 

 

BTW, yours still doesn't match mine. I wonder why? Darthe didn't figure out the difference, or at least didn't put it in thread. Maybe dice or Ley, or Hallia or RTE can explain the difference. This isn't a claim BTW. jut putting out information, which you claim to be all for John.

 

 

You don't always have to completely reread someone to reevaluate your position on their alignment

 

 

 

My point was that you are now contributing to the game. Your reads lists was a point in your favor, not against. I'm going to case you for two reasons:

Either to decide you're town

Or to convince other people you're scum.

 

You're mafia on my list because I think the only reason you're hunting is because I pushed you into it. One of the things I'm going to evaluate when I case you. 

 

 

And I thoguht sheeping was just following someone and not looking for scum on your own. 

Underlined: You mean for one of two reasons I think. However you already decided that I was mafia. So you need to unconvince yourself? As to the second reason you merely want to convince other people that I am mafia? You only want to win the argument?  You should be wanting to show other people how I am mafia. You see the difference in mindset?  

 

Bold: You think too much of yourself I think. I do what I want, when I want. I decided that if I was gonna play, I was gonna play. 

 

You should be careful what you ask for. And post some funny cat pictures. 

 

 

Underlined: I'm aware that I could very well be tunnelling. I want to re-evaluate my read on you.As to the second part, your wording is better, yes. 

 

Bold: Entirely possible. 

 

See above.

[Turin Turambar]

Zander is voting him but he isn't pushing him. That point is invalid.

Day 1 -- with 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch
Zander (1)  -- seph
John Snow (6) -- Zander, dice, Darthe, Hallia, Turin, TMD
Ley (1) -- cory
Hallia (3) -- Firebird, RTE, Ley,
Turin (1) -- John Snow
 
Not voting: Mashiara, Eldrick, Thane,
 
Countdown

 

 

It's got nothing to do with who I am Turin.  I read his posts and they make sense.  Whether you like what he says or not he is trying to figure things out and his progression is easy enough to follow.  

 

Others you would prefer over Hally is different from town-reading her.  Also, your top pick for wolf is being led by one of your top picks for wolf.

You said yourself that you have multiple reasons for thinking JS is a wolf. You really think he can't pull a townie sounding post out here or there. The one you just gave him credit for wasn't even really town in that he admitted that he was using a not town mindset in the way he posted. We just gonna have to disagree here I think.

 

See above. Also, two of my other mafia reads are voting Hallia. So by math I win? If my vote stood between achieving a lynch and not I am voting her. (this is a standard hammer game right?) Otherwise I will go through my list first. 

 

 

 

My point was that you are now contributing to the game. Your reads lists was a point in your favor, not against. I'm going to case you for two reasons:

Either to decide you're town

Or to convince other people you're scum.

 

You're mafia on my list because I think the only reason you're hunting is because I pushed you into it. One of the things I'm going to evaluate when I case you. 

 

 

And I thoguht sheeping was just following someone and not looking for scum on your own. 

Underlined: You mean for one of two reasons I think. However you already decided that I was mafia. So you need to unconvince yourself? As to the second reason you merely want to convince other people that I am mafia? You only want to win the argument?  You should be wanting to show other people how I am mafia. You see the difference in mindset?  

 

Bold: You think too much of yourself I think. I do what I want, when I want. I decided that if I was gonna play, I was gonna play. 

 

You should be careful what you ask for. And post some funny cat pictures. 

 

 

If you don't tunnel him you'll realize that wolves almost never make statements like the underlined.  He is a target and he gives you an out here instead of relentlessly pushing you.  That speaks of uncertainty and decreases his ability to build momentum on a Turin lynch if he does build a case against you.  Similarly the bold is antagonistic, something easily turned on him.

 

I thought this was likely a townie post that you tunneled on and his response to it was to essentially shrug at you and say he is gonna try to figure it out, consistent with everything here.

 

I'm telling you those aren't things anyone would do as wolf unless they were a really advanced player.  

 

Wolves will back off in a case where they know they aren't going to win. He is in effect wasting his time and drawing my ire which is likely going to lead to his wearing a noose today. He is looking to eject while looking reasonable. Or he is going to pull the same thing he did with Seph last game. Look like he is reconsidering and then come back to his original position and keep the vote. I think it will be the former. There is NO WAY he is getting me lynched today without completely showing his true mafia self after I flip. I know it. He knows it. 

 

You think JS isn't an advanced player? If you do we will have to disagree on that also.  Loads of players try to look reasonable when they are mafia. 

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

That's a classic guilt trip of a post, a wolf tactic called appeal to emotion.

It is also classic Hallia posting. I want more stances and opinions from her. If they don't appear then she would become a lynch candidate.

 

 

 

But it isn't.  She is snarky and defensive as a player but she would be aggressive about this train as town.  As a wolf she would try and guilt us away from her and then lay low to let things dissipate which is exactly what she has done.  

 

Which is why I said this. She has committed to be more active. If it doesn't happen then she will be worthy of a vote. At this time I like my vote where it is. Snow has exhibited non-town mindset on more than one occasion. (his push at you was the first obvious one). His vote on me for lurking that stayed on when I was active, not just with him but also commenting on other things in the game.

[Darthe]

Idk I just don't see it and am tired of losing because I compromise. You're tunneling imo and making problems out of things that aren't with Js and I don't see any reason not to critique Hally here but you're holding off.

[Turin Turambar]

I think you are letting a few posts sway you away from the entirety of his game. I think it is why you misread me as town when I'm mafia sometimes. You let the odd townie nugget convince you that I couldn't be mafia in that circumstance. I think it was Cory that said not to disregard old info for new. integrate them together and see what you think is the more telling.

 

I think I am paraphrasing that but that is how I read the advice. We still have what 2 days? plenty of time to hear form everyone. As long as they will post of course. 

 

As an FYI, I do not know my schedule for this week. It may be day to day. If off then more time to play obviously. 

[Darthe]

I see that I don't want to lynch john snow today and have significantly more interest in a Hally lynch. If that changes I'll play to it but I can't well disregaRd my opinion of his development.

 

He got better, he gets treated better.

[Darthe]

Also Hally said she'd be here this evening but she got off three hours ago without posting.

 

She seriously avoids posting until she feels comfy doing so as a wolf.

[Hallia]

Yeah, I got off of work.  I am catching up now Princess.

[Darthe]

Name calling is a sign of defensiveness, but yes I am.

[Turin Turambar]

Also Hally said she'd be here this evening but she got off three hours ago without posting.

 

She seriously avoids posting until she feels comfy doing so as a wolf.

You got her lojacked?

[Hallia]

Up through page 9

 

 

 

 

God I love Pokemon.
 
Eldrick is town for sure.  Maybe Seph as well.  
 
[v] Zander [/v]
 
Follow me asap or be branded a wolf later

Hmm eldrick did choose a fire pokemon.

Zander I usually make sense.  Seph, Does this mean something?

Yes I believe him because he chose a fire pokemon. There my favorites

 

Someone's type of pokemon doesn't matter.  For example, last game if I recall correctly the fire and water were two opposing mafia teams.  Type is irrelevent IMO.

 

 

He's asking and answering questions, trying to clarify where he may be misunderstood and seems to be unafraid of defending himself.  General tone is townie.

now the real question is what is the general tone of an EP?

 

regardless I find it hard to believe the mafia would have Eld play the newbie town act. It notoriously gets shut down around here, especially for someone who has played a few games.

 

on the other hand this game is going relatively slower than I'm used to...

 

The general tone of an EP I suppose can vary.  I wasn't speaking of you at that time though, I was explaining why I thought Zander seemed townie to me.

Current most likely mafia suspects are Snow and Zander. I could vote either at the present. In interest of competing trains.

 

[v] Zander [/v] 

This is one of the laziest votes I've seen so far this game.  You're just going for easy marks.

[Hallia]

And also; using what time I logged off to judge me for not speeding home to play mafia?  Poop move if I say so.  Some of us need to take care of stuff in between getting off and getting on the computer.

Continuing on through page 13,

 

 

Eld has been in a couple of games. I'm not cutting him as much slack as I am say Mashiara.

oh I'm not cutting him any slack but with the way he posted those two posts made it pretty clear to me he is just a lonely townie with no clue what to do since this would be his first game without others to give him advice. I don't like his preaching his townie-ness but I can't see his hint of cyndaquil as being a lie.

 

Why would he not have a clue?  He has played, even with mentors, so he's not incompetent.

 

 

Other than that I didn't really see much, RTE made a decent post explaining his suspicion of me, so I cannot fault him for that.