Pokemon Mafia IV: The Mystery of Heart Island--GAME OVER--TEAM ROCKET WIN

[Leyrann]

Anyways, I wanted to point out

 

with some huge, attention-grabbing text

 

that Hallia

 

HAS ONCE AGAIN IGNORED THE CASE ON HER.

 

I think it is now safe to assume she's trying to make everyone forget about it and pass by.

 

My vote's not moving except if we absolutely need consolidation.

[Turin Turambar]

Can you explain your progression on Zander and Thane because they look to be a bit all over the place. This is why I disagree with your technique of giving absolute statements.

Eldrick

EP

Dice

Seph

Ley

Ithi/Cory

Mash

 

Thane

Turin

TMD

RTE

 

Zander

John Snow

Hally

 

 

This is where I am atm.  Lows are interchangable but I don't think they're quite right yet.  Still pretty sure that one of Zander/JS is a wolf and Hally has been odd about tossing herself into that.  

Thane is null, Zander is wolf (actually either JS or Zander...Did I tell you this game I hate either or wolf reads)

 

I believe that you'd not fake that RTE read unless you're a wolf with him (unlikely).  I also have you as town.  

 

Ley isn't a wolf here I don't think.  He generally tries to involve himself with things more as a wolf, actively attempting to manipulate situations.  Could be too early to really develop that read but he def has a D1 pass from me.  

 

Similarly EP is being perfectly obstinate but he is pure town this game and I'll fight for that read.  He presents his thoughts as he has them and you can clearly follow them down the thread (mostly, which is a lot for EP).  

 

You're right about your Dice read imo.  Seph too.

 

Zander could be a wolf but he has done this in every single game he was in and flips town each time so I am not giving that weight yet.  

 

Thane I'd like to see more on if you want to pursue that.  

 

I'ma lynch you if you clear the Ithi slot for being Ithi.  It'll irk me and increases your wolfiness by at least 40%

Now Zander could be a wolf but ...

Thane is still null (at least that is how I am reading it. If I'm wrong then clarify please)

 

Thoughts on Thane?  He slanks as wolf.

Asking about Thane. I didn't see anything from you about Thane in the interim. 

 

1. Hallia
2. RTE
3. Firebird (EP)
4. Mashiara
5. dice
6. seph
7. TMD
8. Eldrick
9. cory
10. Zander
11. Turin
12. Ley 
13. Thane
14. John Snow
 

 

This is where I currently stand.  Arguable seph and mash could be light green but it's otherwise spot on imo.  I may have a wolf in the light green as it stands.  

Thane is maf along with Hallia. Snow and zander are both now neutral? You are losing me here. Did you borrow Despo's Dartboard?

[Leyrann]

Turin, you may have missed it because you were tunneling too much, but on recent pages, there was a series of posts Snow made that Darthe liked, and that's why he moved Snow to null over the course of them.

[Zander?]

 

he was doing the same as town before the the sub.  he's came around to see as town before but at the same time i dont see how may play has differed to cause concern.   my point there was really that im playing the same way I always do .  and to those who have played with me would, I'd think would see it too.  And if someone thinks Im at the level to play the same way as both Maf and Town I think is reaching imo.

My point is that you are saying he is suspicious for doing something that he has always done while at the same time you are saying that you should not be considered suspicious for doing what you have always done. You see the disconnect?

 

 There are degrees of sameness especially if there are people to guide.  You suspicious of anyone else? 

 

 

more experience with playing together makes me wonder why its occuring yet again.

 

I have my vote on John Snow (though imo he's reading better to me) trying to get a read from his and your interaction. 

[Darthe]

It's a technique I like to call read development.  I learn more about people over time from things such as interacting with them, reading past games, getting meta off of other players (outside of games of course) and integrate it to form better opinions.

 

Zander is prob just a new player that goofs up by blurting things because he doesn't know what to say.  I'll reassess later if needed but that's wehre I am atm.  Thane has fallen by his inactivity because he definitely ducks out a lot more as wolf and Hally has fallen based on her posts and interactions which I found to be safe and somewhat disingenuous since she returned.  

 

You actually managed to quote my development on all of them pretty well.  Between the first and second quote you can see that Zander trends up and I am open to pursuing Thane, third quote justifies Thane read more, new list shows development.  Clear to me.  

 

BTW, there are no neutrals left on my board.  Yellow is light wolf and orange is more sus and red is more sus than that.  

[Darthe]

Zander thoughts on Hally

[Darthe]

I wrote a book last night called The Purpose Driven Townie.

 

Should get published any time now.  

[Darthe]

CAN YOU FEEL THE WIM TONIGHT

[Aiel Heart]

Sorry I had a LOT less time last night and this morning than I thought I would. Should be here a little more regularly now

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

 

Also here but don't see the point of fluffing up my post count. Should I post some pictures or memes of Pokemon since I missed that albeit brief phase of the game? 

 

Oh, but there's no need to FLUFF it up. You can always iso some people and see if you notice anything, or you can pick someone you don't like and make a case, or simply make a general list of reads. Or, if you want to do it the most simple way, you can just sprout out every thought you have about what's being said.

 

 

 

 

Also, just putting this out here - do you people think that mafia has a certain kill, or would they have to kill through moves too?

I'm expecting that they will need to kill through moves.

 

Oh. even though I expect it to be a move, I also believe it will have a high chance of working.

 

This feels like TMI. Not sure if it is more likely Ley for bringing it up or Eldrick for carrying the ball.  Especially interjecting the higher chance of success bit. like playing both sides of the street. 

 

I would expect the mafia team kill to be separate from any other abilities individual players have.  

 

Also I saw it noted about my activity level. Sometimes there are other things more important than internet games. 

 

TMI = too much information?

 

By this point I already had Eld as town, but considering I don't take anything but a cop view (not even that, actually) for certain, I still asked it this way, as to give away the least possible. I was just wondering about other people's thoughts. I mean, you can't deny it's an interesting point for the balance of this game: Do they have high % killing powers, do they have a night kill, do they have nothing but their wits, etc. I guess you could probably expect mafia to not "play by the rules" so to say, but it's worth a bit of discussion imo. I was mostly putting out my own uncertainty.

 

Yes, TMI=Too much information. Maybe the more accurate way It bugs me is that to me it dosn't come from a town POV. First off it is the purest speculation that we will not find the answer to until after the game because only the mafia and the MOD know the setup. Secondly, It is fishing for info that doesn't need to be out in the open at this point in the game.

 

How is the phrasing of that question giving away the least information possible? You either think mafia has a regular kill or they don't.  

Bold: Again, the only ones that will KNOW the answer are mafia(and the MOD). Town has NO idea how it affects balance because we don't know how it works. Therefore it is worth zero discussion. Certainly not at this point.

 

What do you mean mafia won't "play by the rules"? 

 

 

1.) Bad wording on my part. I meant that I thought it likely that we would have certain "rules", translated into the % chance for our abilities, while mafia would not play by those rules resulting in, for example, a sure night kill.

 

1. Hallia is town. I am not fond of how her train rose up. 

2. RTE is town. I don't remember much tht he said but I don't rememeber anything he said that made me go "RTE is mafia" he usually does when is is maf.

3. Firebird (EP) is mafia. He is sadly mistaken if he really believes he knows Ithi's mafia meta. I think that is a lie to try to look like he is town. 

4. Mashiara is town. Noob pass for the moment. Nothing that can't be explained away by newness.

5. dice is town. Stoopid comment is one I don't think he makes as mafia. Especially since I think it would be about teammates.

6. seph is town. From early posting. Did he say he would be away? I don't recall hearing from him lately.

7. TMD is town. Posts coming across as irritated town WRT the postcount thing.  I say again postcount=/=town. 

8. Eldrick is town. This is only because I don't think both of them are mafia having that converstion and I recall Eldrick being one to freely talk about setup. He was mafia then however. Has there been a thread started about percentage based NAs on the main board? (Stole that form Ithi) 

9. cory is town. This is Ithi's slot. Not lynching here today.

10. Zander is mafia.  I still can't shake that early game stuff. Feels like too much trying to force meta.  

11. Turin is town

12. Ley is mafia. I really think that the conversation about mafia actions and then the venture into boosting / deboosting percentages is more a mafia POV. Who can more easily work together? the town that doesn't know who else is on their team or the mafia that can plan how to integrate actions?

13. Thane is mafia. This was a weak read.I don't like the parked vote to start or the bit of setup in his reads list. Also the lack of any background info troubles me. If this is wrong then it is most likely Eldrick.

14. John Snow is mafia. Pushing at Darthe early for trying to lead town. He said later it was because he felt Darthe trying to raise above the fray but Darthe's posts didn't read that way to me at all. I think he took a reason I have given to distrust Darthe in other games and regurgitated it to me in hopes I would be swayed. Add in his being convinced i'm mafia but not acknowledging that I could be the mafia on his train smacks of contradiction in his thought process. 

15. Darthe is town. He WASN"T trying to make everyone read him as LOCK CLEAR. He was driving conversation. I can actually follow his thoughts for the most part this game.

 

2.) Disagree with an awful lot on this list.

 

Hallia - No doubt my most sure mafia read, see aforementioned reasons (and next post by the way).

EP - He's mafia because he says he knows Ithi's mafia meta? Come on, are you really using THAT as an argument? Look at his PLAY. And I'll tell you something. His play looks pretty townie to me.

TMD - It's not about the post count, it's about the engagement.

Cory - Why aren't you listing him as null? Because the gods of random happened to not give Ithi a mafia slot for a long time?

Zander - He hasn't stood out to me. At all.

Thane - Heck, even YOUR explanation makes it sound like a "null" would be better. Also that reads like you COUNTED OUT the amount of mafia - on day 1 in a game where you have no idea how it's balanced. Sounds to me like you know more than you should. (ftr: 5 mafia. If Turin dies and flips mafia, I think we know how many mafia we have to kill)

John Snow looks really townie to me. I still don't get where those mafia reads come from.

 

That's 7 reads I disagree about, on 13 players that are neither you nor me (if we would count ourselves it'd be 9 out of 15). Considering I'm town, I think that's enough to make you mafia, because I KNOW you're better than this as town and I also dare say I'm nowadays good enough at mafia to not mess up my reads THAT much.

 

 

My point was that you are now contributing to the game. Your reads lists was a point in your favor, not against. I'm going to case you for two reasons:

Either to decide you're town

Or to convince other people you're scum.

 

You're mafia on my list because I think the only reason you're hunting is because I pushed you into it. One of the things I'm going to evaluate when I case you. 

 

 

And I thoguht sheeping was just following someone and not looking for scum on your own. 

Underlined: You mean for one of two reasons I think. However you already decided that I was mafia. So you need to unconvince yourself? As to the second reason you merely want to convince other people that I am mafia? You only want to win the argument?  You should be wanting to show other people how I am mafia. You see the difference in mindset?  

 

Bold: You think too much of yourself I think. I do what I want, when I want. I decided that if I was gonna play, I was gonna play. 

 

You should be careful what you ask for. And post some funny cat pictures. 

 

 

3.) My bold: That sounds an awful lot like "I only play if I feel like it, and f*** you if you want to ask of me to be active in the game I signed up for". Which, imo, is only a fair requirement: Don't sign up for a game if you cannot promise you'll give your best the FULL GAME. And if it turns out you can't while you thought you could, you do like Ithi or Eld and ask for a replacement.

 

If there are spaces then there is substantial difference in thought. The groupings are graded but those are much closer. As you can see there are many others i would prefer to lynch before Hallia ATM. She hasn't had much  presence and I don't really like the train on her. Especially my top mafia read cajoling you to vote there. (Frankly I don't like your backing off him either but I am attributing it to Darthe being Darthe)

Actually, could you order everyone from t>w

Turin

 

Darthe

 

Dice

Slot #9

 

TMD

 

Hallia

Mashi

RTE

 

Seph

Eldrick

 

Thane

 

 

Zander

EP

Ley

 

 

 

Snow

 

4.) It is interesting how your top town read disagrees with you so heavily. Can you explain how that happened?

 

 

THAT'S NOT ENTERTAINING

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY READS?

 

Well, I think you're off about Snow. Also don't really agree with Zander and RTE, and I think Turin should be a bit lower on the list. For the rest I like it.

 

I am curious why you think that about zander. He ignored my question and vote like he just did not care.

 

5.) Because I did not really notice anything about him, putting him in my null list. That's why I said "don't really agree" and not "think you're off".

 

 

 

Dis. 

 

EP is correct and looks town. Eldrick is noob. Hallia is manipulative. Dice looks town. Darthe is Darthe-ing. Ithi seems town (or seemed anyways, she's gone now ).

  

I don't mind that she came out voting. But it's the way she did it. Her reasoning is poor on this one, in a way that rings scummy rather than careless.

RTE I am not sure if you were avoiding my question earlier, or you didn't realize but within a span of 3 posts you call ithi town, and then scummy...

 

 

Honestly no idea what you are talking about. I only mentioned Ithi that one time. Rest was about Hallia if not specified. 

 

 

6.) DING-DING-DING SCUM ALERT

 

Seriously, you're not gonna convince me you didn't realize what he was talking about.

 

1. Fair enough. 

2. Disagree if you want. My reads are MY reads.

3. It was in reply to JS. He said that he poked me into making cases. I refuted it. I actually thought about replacing out when Ithi did as it is more fun to do other things with her. But I decided that since I was in the game I was going to play. Basically, It was me giving myself a kickstart. 

4. Just because we disagree doesn't make him mafia. His sudden flip flop about me from green to voting is troubling. 

5. Not really for me so w/e.

6. I understood that RTE was talking about two different people. This point is silly.

[Zander?]

Zander thoughts on Hally

 ill have to go back and read her again,,,though Leyranns post about a missing case could be very worrisome.

[Darthe]

 

Zander thoughts on Hally

 ill have to go back and read her again,,,though Leyranns post about a missing case could be very worrisome.

 

No opinion atm?

[Aiel Heart]

Dammit make everything easy for me AH, you know I can't handle complex stuff.

 

[unvote] [v] hally [/v] 

That would make everything so much less boring for me!

 

I wrote a book last night called The Purpose Driven Townie.

 

Should get published any time now.  

*Snort*

[Aiel Heart]

IN THE PROCESS OF REPLACING ELDRICK

 

BFG is now Ithi/cory. I'm removing the vote that had been voted and resetting her back to not voting 

 

 

 

Day 1 Votecount -- with 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Zander (1)  -- seph

John Snow (5) -- Zander, dice, Hallia, Turin, TMD

Hallia (3) -- Firebird, RTE, Ley

Turin (2) -- John Snow, Darthe

 

Not voting: Mashiara, Eldrick, Thane, BFG

 

Countdown

[Zander?]

well from what i remember she had a maf read on snow like me and thought i was town.  basing a town lean solely on this not be productive overall imo just biased.  need to go back and see whats what.

[Turin Turambar]

If there are five wolves in a non-multiball 15p game sub me.

 

There should never ever be more than four on a team in this setup.

Where is this coming from?

 

Oh and I have it in my list that Turin and RTE are green based on Turin being town and giving a read he wouldn't fake unless they are a team (that was a good meta analysis) of RTE.

 

This means that if Turin is a wolf RTE prob is with him.  Thought that should be out there.

What does it mean when I flip town? 

 

Sure.  Good turin case hits everything sketchy about him so far IMO unvote vote Turin

 

Let's see where this goes.

Most likely nowhere. I told JS I'm not getting lynched this game. I meant it. You should really be looking elsewhere. 

[Turin Turambar]

It's a technique I like to call read development.  I learn more about people over time from things such as interacting with them, reading past games, getting meta off of other players (outside of games of course) and integrate it to form better opinions.

 

Zander is prob just a new player that goofs up by blurting things because he doesn't know what to say.  I'll reassess later if needed but that's wehre I am atm.  Thane has fallen by his inactivity because he definitely ducks out a lot more as wolf and Hally has fallen based on her posts and interactions which I found to be safe and somewhat disingenuous since she returned.  

 

You actually managed to quote my development on all of them pretty well.  Between the first and second quote you can see that Zander trends up and I am open to pursuing Thane, third quote justifies Thane read more, new list shows development.  Clear to me.  

 

BTW, there are no neutrals left on my board.  Yellow is light wolf and orange is more sus and red is more sus than that.  

Show where you interacted with Thane please. All the other things you are listing were available at the start of the game so I don't really get how it causes you to change your view.

 

Fair enough about yellow being light wolf.  Now why are you suddenly voting a green read again? 

[Turin Turambar]

Also Welcome to the game BFG. 

[Leyrann]

1. Fair enough. 

2. Disagree if you want. My reads are MY reads.

3. It was in reply to JS. He said that he poked me into making cases. I refuted it. I actually thought about replacing out when Ithi did as it is more fun to do other things with her. But I decided that since I was in the game I was going to play. Basically, It was me giving myself a kickstart. 

4. Just because we disagree doesn't make him mafia. His sudden flip flop about me from green to voting is troubling. 

5. Not really for me so w/e.

6. I understood that RTE was talking about two different people. This point is silly.

 

 

Removed my wot for the sake of not making the post too long, wanted to reply to 3 and 6.

 

3. That'll do for me.

6. Well, clicking back to RTE's second post, he certainly seems to be talking about ITHI, and not Hallia.

[Leyrann]

Also Welcome to the game BFG. 

 

And this.

[Leyrann]

Am wondering what RTE's doing though. I remember him as being one of the more active players, but he has one of the lowest post counts in this game.

[Thane Vakarian]

1 day and 9 hours to try and catch up, ugh....

 

sorry peeps, it's been madness at work. Unannounced strikes mess with everything.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Reading. I'm undecided about JS to be honest, still feel more confident about Hallia.

 

Ley is off the rails town, per usual. Other views I had remain the same. Shame about the replacements but better early than late. 

[Turin Turambar]

 

The RED quote from Leyrann: I read it again and I dislike it even more now. First it may contain a slip. Who is the said townie? I may be reading this wrong but it seems like you are saying that you aren't. Regardless of that. You are making huge assumptions based on nearly no evidence. I agree with Dice's point that you basically just handed a blank town role PM to the mafia here. Making any claim they make easier to fake.

 

Sorry, that was an unclear demonstrative pronoun. I had to read it twice before I understood what I meant too. "Said townie" refers to the "town" from the last sentence: If someone from town knows 3 town have the same role, then likely all do, that's what I meant.

 

And I may have "handed a blank town role PM to the mafia", but what does that hurt? When we're talking about an "experimental/kitchen sink" game, then I doubt mafia's very willing to role claim anyways, even if only for fear of getting counterclaimed. All it does is make role claims worthless. Normally, role claims are done mainly for one thing: Saving your skin as cop, doc, or some other important town role. Well, considering we're sitting here in a town full of Jacks of all Trades, there most likely won't be a role that only exists once, at least not a vital one. That means no one is vitally important to town winning (but it does make team effort much more important).

 

On top of that, you are currently contradicting yourself. You're accusing me of mafia AND you're accusing me of giving away town information. Make up your mind. In the worst case I'm mafia and mafia already had the information because they have the same roles. But I can't be doing both at the same time no matter what way you try to turn it.

 

So you see how it looks now. I disagree with your premise which is why I find it to be fishing. 

 

Why wouldn't the mafia claim? If they know what some of the possibilities are and by your idea that multiple people have the same ones then they could claim anything they want without fear of counter claims by your way of thinking. I disagree in part but there are enough roles out there that it would be easy to pick a selection that would be plausible.

 

Why would you think that the important roles have duplicates? That kind of a leap would require access to multiple role PMs. I don't have that. I would expect the main roles to be at most one with a higher effectiveness rating and possibly a "backup" with a lower rating. 

 

What I believe is that you are not town giving away info but in fact mafia floating ideas and fishing for more info. 

[seph]

 

 

he was doing the same as town before the the sub.  he's came around to see as town before but at the same time i dont see how may play has differed to cause concern.   my point there was really that im playing the same way I always do .  and to those who have played with me would, I'd think would see it too.  And if someone thinks Im at the level to play the same way as both Maf and Town I think is reaching imo.

 

My point is that you are saying he is suspicious for doing something that he has always done while at the same time you are saying that you should not be considered suspicious for doing what you have always done. You see the disconnect?

 

 There are degrees of sameness especially if there are people to guide.  You suspicious of anyone else?

 

more experience with playing together makes me wonder why its occuring yet again.

 

I have my vote on John Snow (though imo he's reading better to me) trying to get a read from his and your interaction.

Zander first I was suspicious of your early Play, you had a few her recently that seem more like town zander.

When I voted you I was hoping for for some sort of response. As when I asked my question "why you think it is villagery" you took the way out instead.