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DRAGONMOUNT

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Henrik Nåmark

Can't finish Crossroads of Twilight (spoilers)

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I've been enjoying the series up until now. What a storyteller Jordan is. Unfortunately this book is getting the best of me. I used to try and sneak away from people every now and then just to be able to read one page. Now I have time but I don't want to read anymore.

 

The end of Winter's Heart is one of my favorite parts of the series so far. What an event! I couldn't wait to start reading Crossroads of Twilight. Now I've read over 400 pages and still only a few mentions about that. The adventures of Mat, Egwene and Elayne is important sure but did the main story take a break? Did Jordan get tired of the Dragon?

 

Not only that, it feels like Jordan is taking extra care to explain every little detail of what people are thinking, how the environment looks and small things people do. Someone comes up to Egwene to talk, let's not talk straight away but walk for three pages before something is said. To be blunt, it's really boring.

 

Now then, after this rant, the reason why I'm here.

 

I want to finish the series but I need some inspiration. Is Knife of Dreams better? How about the books that Sanderson wrote? Anything to keep me going.

 

It's getting late here in Sweden so I'm going to pop into Tel'aran'rhiod for a short time then get some proper sleep.

 

Thanks

 

//Reach

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Knife of Dreams is one of the best in the series, and Sanderson's are great. Personally, Path of Daggers was the hardest in the series for me. Nothing important really happens in Crossroads of Twilight besides Mat hanging out with Tuon and Aes Sedai talking about stuff they will do but don't actually do until later, so you could just read chapter summaries and probably get all the information. (I actually liked Crossroads of Twilight because it has a lot of Mat, but if Rand is your favorite, he only makes a brief appearance at the end.)

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Well, there is this Magicana...... you can run through it quite quick!! I did have trouble in my first read of the book. But it slots in very well. It gives you a break from remembering where Rand is, since he is so important, while Mat and Perrin had to be focused on at some point without Rand. I actually enjoy this book.

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Well after writing this I had to read a bit at least. Egwene went to the tent where they make cuendillar, that was quite interesting.

 

they're all better after CoT. find a good reread (Leigh butler) and continue reading after that book. IMO.

 

My brother read them all and he said the same thing. It was getting so frustrating that I had to get inspiration somewhere. Thanks for the tip about the reread. I will pause and go through those every now and then. Perhaps I'll even use the rereads until I find sections that I find interesting.

 

Knife of Dreams is one of the best in the series, and Sanderson's are great. Personally, Path of Daggers was the hardest in the series for me. Nothing important really happens in Crossroads of Twilight besides Mat hanging out with Tuon and Aes Sedai talking about stuff they will do but don't actually do until later, so you could just read chapter summaries and probably get all the information. (I actually liked Crossroads of Twilight because it has a lot of Mat, but if Rand is your favorite, he only makes a brief appearance at the end.)

 

I think I might be extra frustrated since the sidestepping already started in Path of Daggers. I don't really have a favorite (although I'm leaning a bit towards Perrin), it's more that I don't like it when there's a pause from the main story. There is a lot of Perrin in KoD but that feels like a focus on Faile, which I don't like at all haha.

 

When I was younger I read a lot of Stephen King and he had a tendency to do the same thing. "Oh, this is interesting, let's explain this in great detail shall we!"

 

KOD is a million times better than COT.

 

Can't wait to get to it!

 

Well, there is this Magicana...... you can run through it quite quick!! I did have trouble in my first read of the book. But it slots in very well. It gives you a break from remembering where Rand is, since he is so important, while Mat and Perrin had to be focused on at some point without Rand. I actually enjoy this book.

 

I'm probably just too impatient :). Now I'm about 200 pages from the end and at this point I can summarize how I wish this book would be. If Jordan would start the book with talking about the results of what happened at the end of Winter's Heart I would have been satisfied. I am interested in how the others are doing but I wish he would have written it shorter and faster. What Egwene and Elayne are doing are certainly things that has to be done but it didn't have to be so much about it. Perrin hunting for Faile is what I like the least. That's a true sidestory if something ever was. I'm curious how it's going to unfold of course, if it could unfold yesterday ;).

 

Thanks a lot everyone for your replies and helping an impatient Swede getting through to the end.

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It is better to post chapter/scene references than to post page references; each format has different amount of pages for each book.  Or if you tell page references, also tell the format you are reading from.

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 Perrin hunting for Faile is what I like the least. That's a true sidestory if something ever was.

 

.

Yes. It certainly seems that way. However....it leads to a great payoff in the concluding book, at the series' end(aMoL) that is linked into the main story during it's most desperate and final hour.

 

But I do agree with most fans, that plot should have been severely shortened. Four books of that stoyline is just nuts.

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Well, there is this Magicana...... you can run through it quite quick!! I did have trouble in my first read of the book. But it slots in very well. It gives you a break from remembering where Rand is, since he is so important, while Mat and Perrin had to be focused on at some point without Rand. I actually enjoy this book.

 

I read the books as they came out (Since... Path of Daggers, too young before that), and naturally many times since. COT is a bit of a struggle, but necessary (Somewhat) in the context of the whole story. It's less painful with KOD sitting on the bookshelf next to it and not coming in 2.5 years.

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I want to finish the series but I need some inspiration. Is Knife of Dreams better? How about the books that Sanderson wrote? Anything to keep me going.

 

 

 

If you need inspiration, then abandon the series. If you don't like what you are reading then the whole thing is just a waste of time.

 

Path is "dull", Winter is also "dull". Knife is a little bit better. As many people used to suggest: read the first six books, then forget the rest.

 

Sanderson's books are terrible: Jordan's target audience was 14-114, Sanderson's target is under 12. Terrible writing, terrible characterization, making his own rules, you will not survive it.

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I disagree. I loved Sanderson's books. The Gathering Storm was a bit hard to get used to his writing style, but the last two books were amazing.

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I felt the same way the first time through COT. I "read" it a second time via the audiobooks and it was much better, and much less of a slog.

 

Speaking of Sanderson, the audiobooks are much less jarring when he takes over because the readers maintain their "voices" for the characters and it feels like a more natural continuation.

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Here's a question. Why do people tend to hate Elayne's arc around the point of CoT? Am I the only one who finds her INFINITELY more likeable than Egwene at that point in the story?

Edited by EmperorAllspice

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I have liked both of them during each book.

part of reader's dislike toward Elayne at that time might be her pregnancy.

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It is better to post chapter/scene references than to post page references; each format has different amount of pages for each book.  Or if you tell page references, also tell the format you are reading from.

 

You're right of course, didn't even think about that. Atm I'm at chapter 24, that is page 544 in the version I'm reading. Slowly but surely moving forward. The last 50 pages or so have gotten increasingly interesting.

 

 

 Perrin hunting for Faile is what I like the least. That's a true sidestory if something ever was.

 

.

Yes. It certainly seems that way. However....it leads to a great payoff in the concluding book, at the series' end(aMoL) that is linked into the main story during it's most desperate and final hour.

 

But I do agree with most fans, that plot should have been severely shortened. Four books of that stoyline is just nuts.

 

 

Gaah! No spoilers please! Not that bad though ;)

 

 

 

I want to finish the series but I need some inspiration. Is Knife of Dreams better? How about the books that Sanderson wrote? Anything to keep me going.

 

 

 

If you need inspiration, then abandon the series. If you don't like what you are reading then the whole thing is just a waste of time.

 

Path is "dull", Winter is also "dull". Knife is a little bit better. As many people used to suggest: read the first six books, then forget the rest.

 

Sanderson's books are terrible: Jordan's target audience was 14-114, Sanderson's target is under 12. Terrible writing, terrible characterization, making his own rules, you will not survive it.

 

 

Not sure why you're posting in this thread since I did specifically ask for inspiration, not the other way around.

 

 

Here's a question. Why do people tend to hate Elayne's arc around the point of CoT? Am I the only one who finds her INFINITELY more likeable than Egwene at that point in the story?

 

Personally I feel that Elayne's arc is the worst part of CoT. I like her as a character, it's just that her struggles in Caemlyn is too long and feels like another side story. Too many details about rooms, dresses and all the small things Jordan could think about. Egwene's arc is not that amazing but it feels more grounded in the main storyline.

 

As I said to mb, I've moved closer to the end. Chapter 24 now and I'm reading almost every day.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions and discussions. It is, like I hoped for, inspirational.

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Here's a question. Why do people tend to hate Elayne's arc around the point of CoT? Am I the only one who finds her INFINITELY more likeable than Egwene at that point in the story?

I hate Elayne and love Egwene....don't know why.

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Elayne acts like an idiot, and gets people killed for no good reason.

 

That feels more like a flawed person than Egwene. Who's only notable flaw that actually impacts the plot once she becomes Amyrlin is caring too much. (rolls eyes)

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Not to turn this into I hate Elayne or Egwene thread but that was always my issue with both of them throughout the series.  Both constantly did dumb stuff, assume they had to do everything themselves, and never considered the consequences. How many times (especially Elayne) did they get captured?  Look at al the dumb stuff Elayne did because Min said her babies would be fine, all the time never once considering she was linked to the worlds savior and could quite possibly get Rand killed.  I always felt out of everyone in the series those were the two who never really evolved. 

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How many got balefired trying to rescue her, how many guards died because she wanted to go to the jail cells by herself, how many guards got balefired because she wanted to be at the front of the battle?  Need more examples?

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Are we talking KoD? People who give it only cursory attention sometimes crack on the BA safe house take down, but it really was quite a good plan. She utilized all the channeler resources she had to hand given the time constraints(WFs would not have helped and Kin would be worth than useless in that situation given how they felt about AS at that time), she had back up on the outside and she neatly hamstrung the BA in her group with the linking trick. It took a totally unforeseen sequence of events including an AoL weapon that no one knew existed to foil it.

 

If your are referencing the interogation in her own dungeons, Mr Ares covered that here:

 

 

 

6. There are a lot of BA scenes, their was walking into the trap in Tear with Nyn and Eg, for which I can find little excuse. Masking herself as a Forsaken which was stupid, but the second plan confronting them in their house was actually a good one.

People calling the Chosen disguise stupid in another one of those things which come up a lot, but falls apart under close scrutiny. In her palace, with her guards, who were alerted to her presence, and the people she was interrogating had no reason to attack her (and were shielded anyway, while Elayne was holding the Source) - she really did stack the deck in her favour. The most likely negative outcome is she gets rumbled and the BA feed her a pack of lies. Learning nothing useful and gaining helpful information were the other likely outcomes. What actually happened was so ludicrously unlikely to happen that she can scarcely be blamed for it.

 

Actually you're right; stupid is the wrong word to use. The plan itself is pretty good for the amount of time she put into it. It was a spur of the moment plan, the worst part of the plan was the dance she did to ensure Birgette wouldn't find out. I don't understand why it was so important that nobody knew where she was going or what she was doing (the guards just knew she was going somewhere in disguise, they didn't know where or why), but stupid is too strong a word.

 

I'm going back to my original statement (several posts ago) and replacing it with thoughtless. At this stage she knows that the BA have infiltrated her group (edited to add:once already, she also knows that the BA captured in Tear were murdered when they were guarded) and could be capable of reaching the cells. The situation is unlikely, but not outside of the information/experience she had available at the time - this is what makes it different from the attack on the lodging later - that failed because of a previously unknown ter'angreal

 

The attack on the house was in KoD, and is what led to the BA being in the cells in ToM. Also, consider that while it is possible that the BA or other Darkfriends might try to kill or free the prisoners, it is incredibly unlikely that such a thing would happen while she was in the cells. She had also rooted out the BA traitor in their midst by this point. And Elayne sent orders to the guards on the cells - in other words, she had guards at both ends that any assassin would have to get through. The risk to her was tiny. For all that she rushed into things with little time for preparation, she still took all reasonable measures to protect herself, and did nothing to expose anyone else around her to any undue harm. Even taking steps to make sure Birgitte couldn't interfere was not as stupid as people would like to portray it - while Birgitte, as Elayne's bodyguard and Warder, has a vested interest in Elayne's survival, that doesn't mean that she would necessarily have objected, or have proposed a better plan, nor been able to point out any undue risk Elayne was taking. By doing things in the way she did, she cut down on the risk of outside interference, or Birgitte stopping her, or needing to be overruled.

 

to be honest if Elayne had actually thought about the whole chosen disguise properly then she would done several things;

 

1) Had half a dozen guards outside the room with copies of Mat's foxhead.

2) Birgitta outside so she would know about any problems outside.

3) Set wards outside so that she would know instantly if anyone channelled outside the room (Other than the two kin maintaining the shield)

 

But and this is the big but... it was a spur of the moment and a clever one, impulsive and a big risk, but it shows that had she taken adequate risks she would not have had anywhere near as many problems and might well have found out the full details of the Caemlyn trolloc invasion.

 

Is this her fault? not really she just didnt think and to be honest she's pregnant and that does not aid rationality, sleepless nights, aches, mood swings...

She already had guards outside the room, both armed non-channelers, and the channelers who were maintaining the shields on the prisoners. If you anticipate an attempt by the BA to free the prisoners, then giving the guards foxheads might be justified (assuming you had enough spares - how many had she made b that point?), but there is no reasonable gain by adding extra channeler protection during the interrogation. The risk of something happening during the brief period she was there was just too small (the BA weren't even there for her anyway). Sticking Birgitte outside would have alerted her, true - but then she would have the added distraction of her Warder being dead. I'm not sure that qualifies as a massive gain. And is it possible to make a Ward that can filter out some channeling? There are limits to what Wards can do, and I think you might be expecting too much - even if it is possible, Elayne might not even know it. Of course, the big point here is that it relies on Elayne being insanely worried about something going wrong - she might be too reckless now, but going too far in the other direction is a little dubious as a solution. Again, the chances of an attempt being made to free the prisoners during the time she was there is so vanishingly small that taking a lot of extra precautions is just ridiculous. Think about it - if the BA prisoners should expect to be dealt with within a month (dead or free), and Elayne's interrogation is unlikely to last beyond, say, an hour (otherwise they might start getting suspicious - I would say less than that, really, but I'm being generous here) then you have rather low odds of something happening while she is in there, and anything that does happen must be something that was planned to happen anyway - it is unlikely that a decent plan could be formulated and carried out in such a short space of time, given that they could have no advance notice of Elayne being there. The reason things went sour is not because of any lack of precautions or recklessness on Elayne's part, it is due to authorial fiat (or possibly ta'veren - Mat was in the city, after all). Neither of which can be protected against. If the author wants her stabbed, she'll get stabbed. If the laws of chance are bending to facilitate a negative outcome, then what can she do? She can't make it impossible, and trying to make it improbable when dealing with a power that changes probability is an uphill struggle. Realistically, she did everything she should have done - further precautions were unnecessary, and would likely have not done anything anyway. She was the victim of bad luck, not poor planning.

 

My point is that further safeguards are absurd - she couldn't reasonably be any safer. You have to accept that beyond a certain point, further precautions become unnecessary, and possibly even counter-productive. Elayne was safe against anything short of an armed rescue attempt during the time she was in there - and if she was at all worried about an armed rescue attempt, while she was in there or not, she should have increased the guards accordingly or taken other measures to prevent a jailbreak. It wasn't impulsiveness or recklessness that led to problems. Outside of not going in there, there was nothing more she could have done, and by not going in there she either ignores an opportunity to gain valuable intelligence, or she sends someone else in her stead - who was better suited to the role than her?

 

 

Need more examples?

 

Apparently so given the above.

Edited by Suttree

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