[Advanced] Avengers - Age of Ultron (GAME OVER!)

[Nolder]

You could argue it til you were blue in the face Nol, it doesn't matter to me.  In this scenario, unlike most, I figured things might be different since Mynd was free about letting people post role PM's and thus I asked the question of if I could post the QT.  I feel bad that it compromised the game and I'd be ticked if something like that happened in one of my games but I wouldn't blame the player for it if I told them they could.  Mod error happens.  Thus, while I do feel bad about it harming the game overall I don't feel personally responsible since I didn't perform a malicious act to game the system etc.

Bullshit.

You ignored me when I pointed out that Mynd didn't mean you could post the link and you didn't wait to check in with him.

You knew wtf you were doing and now you're lying about it. It's pathetic.

[Clovdyx]

You won Clov.  You were the real winner here tonight.

 

I doubt it.  I stopped reading the thread 200 pages ago.

[Tyler Glembo]

 

You won Clov.  You were the real winner here tonight.

 

I doubt it.  I stopped reading the thread 200 pages ago.

 

 

That's why you're the real winner.

[Nynaeve]

lol

[Nolder]

 

 

You won Clov.  You were the real winner here tonight.

 

I doubt it.  I stopped reading the thread 200 pages ago.

 

 

That's why you're the real winner.

 

[csarmi]

You could argue it til you were blue in the face Nol, it doesn't matter to me. In this scenario, unlike most, I figured things might be different since Mynd was free about letting people post role PM's and thus I asked the question of if I could post the QT. I feel bad that it compromised the game and I'd be ticked if something like that happened in one of my games but I wouldn't blame the player for it if I told them they could. Mod error happens. Thus, while I do feel bad about it harming the game overall I don't feel personally responsible since I didn't perform a malicious act to game the system etc.

Let me point out the crucial difference here. Mynd allowed players to pretend to quote their communication with him. He did NOT allow them to add the other players to that PM.

 

Same with the QT. See the difference yet?. The former action proves nothing as fabrication is possible. The latter action does. It is very hard to believe that you didn't pick up on this evident difference and that's why some people call BS on you.

[hazelkrs1]

Wowwee wowwee wowwee

 

So lemme start with what I enjoyed about this game-

 

1. The scenes were ESPECIALLY amusing and entertaining. And like others said, the mods enthusiasm for the game clearly showed- as did his intent for people to enjoy the game

 

2. Before I get into specifics about balance and stuff, it's definitely obvious that Mynd put a lot of work into creating a unique setup. At the very worst, I'm sure many mods will be able to take inspiration from some of the roles and mechanics used in this game, and that's always a good thing.

 

3. Getting to witness #FULLDARTHE from the opposing side, one of those things where if he's on your team it's one of the most painful things ever to see, but if he's not it's one of the most popcorn.gif worthy moments to experience. DERFFFFFF!

 

4. Catching the cheater when other mods hadn't- I am still pretty friggin pissed that my game was compromised which I worked on for MONTHS, and that I didn't catch it even tho "Zanube" was being almost as obvious in my dead thread as he was in this game's. While that stinks, Mynd catching it at least prevents other Mods from feeling the same pain in the near future. DM must thank you for that dearly, Mynd.

 

As for things I didn't care for especially-

 

1. Don't really feel that pumped about my team winning tbh. And not because of winning on account of FULLDARTHE- I think the endgame alignment conversion was bastard modding at it's absolute worst. Def cheapened the victory. It wasn't a very easy situation to be in, but the recruitment thing is pretty much 100% the reason scum won- I agree completely that town outplayed us. Key was a trooper till the end, and I always love having her on my team, so I appreciate her resilience, but even aside from any Darthe shenanigans scum has no business winning this game without Mod pulling that move at the end.

 

2. Quoting of mod pm's- so many people that were discussing this in the dead thread seemed to be completely missing the point. As soon as I saw quoting of the mod was allowed, I started thinking of a fake role/character I could make. BUT I have a HUGE problem with allowing it in the first place (and btw I was personally invited by Mynd to join, I didn't read the rules immediately, so that was my fault, but it doesn't change my opinion on quoting mod communication) because it promotes cheap tactics that we in fact saw on thread- where you're not only judging the pm wording to see if it makes sense in the context of the game/how Mynd might write it (which invites gaming the mod in an uncomfortable fashion), but also doing cheap stuff like comparing timestamps. The Dawn phase really has nothing to do with making the situation any better- I think quoting communication from outside the game is just not a part of what mafia is really supposed to be about. You're supposed to use threadplay, as well as role mechanics possibly, to catch scum or keep from being caught. Role pm matching, comparing backgrounds to see if something was c/p'ed from somewhere in particular, that kind of stuff is just outside the spirit of the game in my opinion.

 

3. Quick balance tangent- two sensors was extremely difficult to go up against from the get go, both of which got their results before night had even ended. Pretty ridic imo. But the biggest balance issue imo aside from individual roles is the fact that basically half of the scum powers were either going to rarely get the chance to be used, or would out the person using them for any smart townies who also had wagonomic associated abilities. So imo town was pretty OP to start off, and while in theory scum had some great powers to counteract... in reality our options were greatly limited. Once townies got confirmed/cleared that had hammering/leading abilities it was very unlikely that town would let a lynch happen that didn't give the clear townies the chance to use their abilities

 

4. Forcing me to sub out- I understand Mynd got frustrated with me complaining about stuff in pm, but forcing me out was kinda bullshit imo. I had only "given up" in the sense that I was outed scum, and that my slot wouldn't make it to endgame period. I was frustrated about some things during the game, like allowing quoting of mod com, modspew in scenes, perceived balance issues, but a player should be allowed to vent to the mod without fear of being forcibly replaced, even if it is annoying as the mod. This didn't really affect the game too much tho, just mostly my personal thing since aside from the frustration I was experiencing, I WAS enjoying stuff like reading scenes or trying to figure out how I could help my teammates with action resolution, that sort of thing.

 

5. Speaking of modspew- yeah Mynd tried writing in our fake claims, but... the fake claims mostly sucked lol. All the non-Hero characters stood out like a sore thumb compared to the superheroes. Also anytime Mynd joked about something that had been talked about in thread and put it in a scene, it was pretty obviously a joke, whereas when he modspewed info, it was pretty much easy to ascertain that he was confirming stuff. He even told Tommy he would make clear in the scene that Quicksilver saved Darthe D1... giving away info that obviously in thread is pretty bastardy. Much worse tho was Mynd apparently confirming to Tommy and NotBob that they wouldn't change alignment- even tho he turned out to be wrong since Rags could have recruited either with the power stolen from Venom (or either could have been switched @ endgame). Either way, why would you confirm the non-existence of a cult or other alignment switching tomfoolery to a player if there wasn't some mechanic-essential reason to???

 

6. As far as specific roles go, there were a number that were either way too freaking OP and gamebreaking, or at the very least introduced some questionable behavior with their mechanics. One Nolder touched on in the deadthread, how Deadpool could basically play against his wincon with the whole alignment switching thing. I don't blame Tsuki for playing it the way he did, and the Merc thing fits perfectly with flavor, but yeah having a role where someone can choose to play against their wincon and still sort of be trying to win just seems... dirty. The Red/Yates role was ridiculous, mostly in that it was an unstoppable unlimited Day Cop (yeah yeah yeah we found out Dice's Roleblock could block Day abilities the next day, but then that kind of info DEF should have been shared at the start of the game, we shouldn't have had to ask if any of our roles worked in non-traditional manners). Someone pointed out how my role could have added a perma-recruiter to the scum team, which is obviously gamebreaking in it's own fashion. Speaking of Venom- that role was almost impossible to win with, since it was a one-time recruit, had no killing power, and was also a Lover so one shot kills the faction. As it is I think the ONLY chance it would have had would be to recruit mafia so it could join it's lynch manipulation techniques with the mafia's to help stuff, but even then it's a long shot. The problem here is that when you try making a game this advanced, this role-heavy, it's obviously going to be next to impossible to balance it 100%. But I def think some of the roles should have been thought out a lot more.

 

---

 

All in all I know it was Mynd's intention to create a fun game for us to play, and he was def excited about it. I disagree with his judgement on a number of matters, but eh running a game of this size and magnitude is never easy. Good game everyone (cept Xthrax). I'm chalking this up as a town victory btw, endgame recruitment be damned. Yall played well, and it was certainly a fun game to spectate once I was out.

 

[hazelkrs1]

Oh yeah and also fwiw- I don't think even the majority of the blame should be on Darthe for posting the link to the QT- Mynd DID say it was allowed, and seemed to allow a lot of things that wouldn't be allowed in other games so I don't think Darthe was trying to exploit a misunderstanding. I think he was anxious to get out his perspective, and thought he was able to after seeing Mynd answer him. I think the majority of the blame falls on Mynd for allowing quoting of stuff that didn't happen in thread, not thinking it would be that big a deal. Didn't look malicious on Darthe's part. #FULLDARTHE was his tinfoiling at endgame and not lynching Key, which no offense to Key but really should have been the obvious decision.

[Drunk Tank]

Thank you for hosting Myndrunner. I couldn't have played without you.

 

 

 

And again I'm shown to be 100% town.

 

 

This should be noted in the notebook of notishness...

[Blackhoof]

I agree to an extent Des, that in the moment I probably would have thought the same.

 

That said, on reflection I feel as though I would realise that that was a stupid thing to think, and accept blame for thinking that.

 

And really, the other players alive at the time who listened to Darthe were also to blame. And for pushing a policy lynch at LYLO (terrible idea) and deadlocking the game like NB did. Tsuki should have been listened to. Darthe was a big part of why town derailed but the other players let the derailment happen.

 

 

 

As for xthrax, i'm trying to piece together what happened... so he had another account (Zanube) and used one or the other to get into the dead thread of games? How did Mynd catch him?

I know it is a really crappy situation (just checked one of my games and FEKKING ZANUBE AND X WERE BOTH IN IT, AND THE ONLY REASON I MADE A FEKKING DEAD THREAD IN THAT GAME WAS BECAUSE FEKKING X ASKED FOR IT AFTER DYING DAY 1 THAT MOTHERFEKKER) but I would just like to know the details, is all.... I am deeply annoyed. >.<

 

PS: he still lost that game anyway at least....

[csarmi]

Umm, where does that story come from? I'm not finding the pieces of it.

 

As for how you catch someone doing that... on QuickTopic (and on DM as well as a mod) you have certain rights - like checking who did what, when and from where.

[csarmi]

CS, what do you mean my team was screwed by my absence?

 

Don't take that out of context Key. What I meant there is that should you have been around at the time Tsuki claimed (you couldn't be), you could have won right there. So the unfortunate timing (weekend) hurt your team there. That's all.

[Nynaeve]

Give Verbal some time to sort the Xthrax/Zanube issue. I'm sure we will be given a clarification once it's dealt with. Any speculations right now are kinda pointless.

 

 

As for Mynd's solution to both Darthe and Tommy posting the links to the QTs... what would you have him do? I mean he could have MKed them both which would have just as easily led to scum winning via this route as well. Instead of doing something as dramatic as lowering the town count by two, he added one scummy and moved the game to night to benefit scum and bring things back into balance.

 

Is it the solution I would have chosen? Prolly not. I would have MKed them both, regardless if it was an honest mistake or not. Those were game breaking mistakes imo.... so I personally think Mynd sugar coded his solution and prolly shouldn't be given so much crap about it.  *shrugs*

 

Town played well, I won't dispute that. But it won't be the first time (or last) that it doesn't translate into actually winning.

[Blackhoof]

I don't blame Mynd for what he did either. I don't know what I would have done, and plenty of times I have made calls as a mod that I regretted or that I could have made better ones in place of, so I don't fault mynd for the solution he decided upon.

 

I mean, Arsis could have been found out without too much difficulty by the way he was acting, imo. If Key had of been lynched, Town would have another day to find Arsis and I think they could have, theoretically. So it didn't inherently screw the game.

[csarmi]

Mod killing both townies would have been much less harsh on town and wouldnt have turned it to a guess game.

 

There is no way you can catch someone properly when their alignment changes dusk seven.

 

Love Myns tho.

[csarmi]

The classy move would have been to turn Darthe scum (instead of random).

[Nynaeve]

That would have been stupid, not classy. Random was the fair thing to do. Automatically making Darthe scum would have been favorable to town because he was getting a lot of negative attention... so if he was taking the conversion route, leaving it to luck was the right thing to do.

[Tommyrod]

I think random endgame conversion is one of the worst things I've ever seen in a game.

 

Let this game be a lesson to never do it again.

[Niniel]

Thanks for the game, Mynd.

[Yates]

Mynd - Great game.

 

Town - Listen to your dead confirmed cop who has already caught baddies and lynch guilties. Also, protections would be nice on said confirmed cops. Just saying. Very poorly played in that regard. Between this game and Red Wedding, I hope the lesson eventually sinks in. It's painful to watch. Anyway, contrary to what I've been reading in this thread, Town deserved the loss. Town didn't outplay scum, we had ALL the Aces. The fact that we lost with a stacked deck is evidence enough of poor decisions.

 

Scum - I still hate you all. Except Key. You're cool.

 

Darthe - We can still cuddle.

[Cory Caboose]

Yates: Nope.

[Cory Caboose]

 

But really though:

Nah.

[Songstress]

Mynd - Great game.

 

Town - Listen to your dead confirmed cop who has already caught baddies and lynch guilties. Also, protections would be nice on said confirmed cops. Just saying. Very poorly played in that regard. Between this game and Red Wedding, I hope the lesson eventually sinks in. It's painful to watch. Anyway, contrary to what I've been reading in this thread, Town deserved the loss. Town didn't outplay scum, we had ALL the Aces. The fact that we lost with a stacked deck is evidence enough of poor decisions.

 

Scum - I still hate you all. Except Key. You're cool.

 

Darthe - We can still cuddle.

The difference between this game and the Red Wedding - there were protects on the various outed investigative roles, but the mafia bus driver circumvented them.

 

At very least we know Darthe was protecting Hallia the night she died, and Drunk Tank used his bodyguard ability on Vos the night he died.

[Drunk Tank]

, and Drunk Tank used his bodyguard ability on Vos the night he died.

 

Go Me!!

 

Thanks Bunny <3

[Yates]

...the mafia bus driver circumvented them.

According to Mynd in the dead thread, the only person to visit me the night I died was Key who bus drove me to my doom. *shrug*