Sherlock Holmes Role Madness Mafia Town wins

[Myndrunner]

I read the wiki too - it don't say anything about her being a major adversary. She had an affair with some prince and he hired Holmes to get a compromising photo - but she outwitted him and left a photo of herself there.

 

Which was the only thing he asked for in payment for the job.

 

He admires her and she's apparently the only woman he had feelings for.

 

Maybe her role got sexed up for some tv show or film.

 

A long time ago, some guy named Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote a wiki about Holmes too, but in paper form.  In that text, her character was not only far from vanilla, but had an extensive history with Holmes.  It is unlikely that she would be vanilla town.

[Ithillian Turambar]

She was in one book - and was reminisced about in some other books.

 

Where are you getting all the cloak and dagger stuff from?

 

Why do you want Thane Lynched so bad?

 

What's your actual full case on him?

 

You do seem to be happy to just cheer it along, and I don't know if you're doing this on purpose so people start to doubt that Lynching him would be a good idea, or if you're just trying to keep the attention on him so people don't look elsewhere.

 

You said it was a weak case. He's lashing out at people who voted him and saying they must be Mafia and then stropping off and morking.

 

What do you think about the actual proper list of reads he gave?

[Ithillian Turambar]

Real stuff that Mynd is not just making up

 

Irene Adler is a fictional character in the Sherlock Holmes stories written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. She was first featured in the short story "A Scandal in Bohemia", published in July 1891. She is one of the most notable female characters in the Sherlock Holmes series, despite appearing in only one story, and is frequently used as a romantic interest for Holmes in derivative works, though in the story it is made clear that Holmes is only impressed by her resourcefulness and intelligence.

 

According to "A Scandal in Bohemia," Adler was born in New Jersey in the 1850s. She followed a career in opera as a contralto, performing at La Scala in Milan, Italy, and a term as prima donna in the Imperial Opera of Warsaw, Poland, indicating that she was an extraordinary singer (in reality, there was no Imperial Opera in Warsaw). It was there that she became the lover of Wilhelm Gottsreich Sigismond von Ormstein, Grand Duke of Cassel-Felstein and King of Bohemia, who was staying in Warsaw for a period. The King describes her as "a well-known adventuress" (a term widely used at the time in ambiguous association with "courtesan"[1][2]) and also says that she had "the face of the most beautiful of women and the mind of the most resolute of men". The King eventually returned to his court in Prague. Adler, then in her late twenties, retired from the opera stage and moved to London.

 

On 20 March 1888, the King makes an incognito visit to Holmes in London. He asks the famous detective to secure a photograph of Adler and him together. The 30-year-old King explains to Holmes that he intends to marry Clotilde Lothman von Saxe-Meiningen, second daughter of the King of Scandinavia; the marriage would be threatened if his prior relationship with Adler were to come to light. He also reveals he had hired burglars to attempt to retrieve it twice, had Adler herself waylaid, and her luggage stolen, to no avail.

 

Using his considerable skill for disguise, Holmes traces her movements, learning much of her private life and, notably, stands witness to her marriage to Godfrey Norton, an English lawyer. Holmes then disguises himself as an elderly cleric and sets up a faked incident to cause a diversion that is designed to gain him access to Adler's home and to trick her into revealing where the picture is hidden. Adler treats him, as the supposed victim of a crime outside her home, with spontaneous care and solicitude. At the moment she gives away the location of the photograph, she realises she has been tricked. She tests her theory that it is indeed Holmes, of whom she had been warned, by disguising herself as a young man and cheekily wishing him good night as he and Watson return to the Baker Street flat.

 

When Holmes returns the next morning with Watson and the King to demand the return of the photograph, he finds Adler gone, along with her new husband and the original photo, which has been replaced with a photograph of her alone as well as a letter to Holmes, explaining how she had outwitted him, but also that she is happy with her new husband, who has more honourable feeling than her former lover. She adds that she will not compromise the King and has kept the photo only to protect herself against any further action the King might take. In the face of this and the King's arrogant statement that it was a "pity that she was not on my level", Holmes realises then that Adler was the wronged party rather than the King and asks, when offered a reward by the King, only for the photograph that Adler had left.

 

At the time that Conan Doyle meant Watson to be writing the story it is unclear if Irene Adler is alive or dead, since she is referred to as 'the late Irene Adler', though this could merely be a comment on her change in name that came with her change in marital status.

 

Irene Adler is also mentioned in the following stories:

"A Case of Identity"

"The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle"

"The Five Orange Pips" (probably; see below)

"His Last Bow"

 

In "The Five Orange Pips", Holmes mentions that he has been outwitted four times, thrice by a man and once by a woman. Since "The Five Orange Pips" is set in September 1887, before "A Scandal in Bohemia", which is set in March 1888, Holmes could not be referring to the specific appearance of Irene Adler during "A Scandal in Bohemia" if the chronology is correct. Doyle had made clear chronological mistakes in other Holmes stories, and no other woman to be held in the same regard by Holmes or to have outsmarted Holmes is ever mentioned. Also, in "A Case of Identity", Watson mentions that Adler is the only person he has ever known to have outmaneuvered Holmes.

 

Adler earns Holmes' unbounded admiration. When the King of Bohemia says, "Would she not have made an admirable queen? Is it not a pity she was not on my level?" Holmes replies scathingly that Adler is indeed on a much different level from the King (by which he means higher—an implication lost on the King).

 

The beginning of "A Scandal in Bohemia" describes the high regard in which Holmes held Adler:

 

 

To Sherlock Holmes she is always the woman. I have seldom heard him mention her under any other name. In his eyes she eclipses and predominates the whole of her sex. It was not that he felt any emotion akin to love for Irene Adler. All emotions, and that one particularly, were abhorrent to his cold, precise but admirably balanced mind. He was, I take it, the most perfect reasoning and observing machine that the world has seen, but as a lover he would have placed himself in a false position. He never spoke of the softer passions, save with a gibe and a sneer. They were admirable things for the observer — excellent for drawing the veil from men's motives and actions. But for the trained reasoner to admit such intrusions into his own delicate and finely adjusted temperament was to introduce a distracting factor which might throw a doubt upon all his mental results. Grit in a sensitive instrument, or a crack in one of his own high-power lenses, would not be more disturbing than a strong emotion in a nature such as his. And yet there was but one woman to him, and that woman was the late Irene Adler, of dubious and questionable memory.

 

This "memory" is kept alive by a photograph of Irene Adler, which had been deliberately left behind when she and her new husband took flight with the embarrassing photograph of her with the King. Holmes had then asked for and received this photo from the King, as payment for his work on the case.

[Turin Turambar]

Finding it very odd that Mynd is pushing so hard on this character claim as a reason to lynch. It looks like trying to make sure the lynch goes thru.

 

Mynd, the example you show is from the Sherlock TV show. Basel was pretty clear that he was taking his cues from the original books written by that guy Doyle.  

 

 

Thane has done enough in my opinion to get lynched himself but I think I still prefer X to wear the noose today. 

 

 

@Despo, you are technically correct that Role Madness does NOT have to have EXACTLY one VT but it has become the most likely setup. (Nice Highlander ref, I LOL'd)

[Myndrunner]

Finding it very odd that Mynd is pushing so hard on this character claim as a reason to lynch. It looks like trying to make sure the lynch goes thru.

 

Mynd, the example you show is from the Sherlock TV show. Basel was pretty clear that he was taking his cues from the original books written by that guy Doyle.  

 

 

Thane has done enough in my opinion to get lynched himself but I think I still prefer X to wear the noose today. 

 

 

@Despo, you are technically correct that Role Madness does NOT have to have EXACTLY one VT but it has become the most likely setup. (Nice Highlander ref, I LOL'd)

 

Im not pushing hard.  I thought this was about character claims being a reason or not reason to vote someone.  I agree he has done enough to put him on the block, but my point is that his claim is unlikely.

 

Curious why you are trying to make more of my posts than are really there. 

[Myndrunner]

Thanks Ithi.  She is clearly much more than Vanilla. She is THE woman.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I don't say anywhere that she's a bad woman though. Just a clever woman. She didn't even drop the arrogant prince bloke in it. All she did was not get done over by some guy and went on to live her life.

 

I see you still trying to spin it though.

 

Your posts are mostly fluff and repetition of other folk's points of view. The only thing I would make of your posts is that you trying to be clever and nudge and push towards Thane.

 

Who do you think are likely Town and who do you think are likely Mafia at the moment and why?

 

Why did you initially vote Thane and not X when you said the Thane case was weak and Turin and Tsuki had been better at finding mafia?

[Basel Gill]

Vote count:

 

Thane (6): Des, Mynd, Tina, BFG, Dice, Thane

X (3) : Turin, Tsuki, Ithi

Len (2) : Chae, Csarmi

Mynd (1) Thane

Chae (1): Len

 

Not Voting (3) : everyone else

 

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.A deadline is now in effect.

DL is set for Tues. June 17th at 9 PM EST. (3 days, plus another 24 hours since the majority of the phase would otherwise be over the weekend.)http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140617T21&p0=422

[Myndrunner]

I don't say anywhere that she's a bad woman though. Just a clever woman. She didn't even drop the arrogant prince bloke in it. All she did was not get done over by some guy and went on to live her life.

 

I see you still trying to spin it though.

 

Your posts are mostly fluff and repetition of other folk's points of view. The only thing I would make of your posts is that you trying to be clever and nudge and push towards Thane.

 

Who do you think are likely Town and who do you think are likely Mafia at the moment and why?

 

Why did you initially vote Thane and not X when you said the Thane case was weak and Turin and Tsuki had been better at finding mafia?

 

I didn't say Irene Adler was scum, I said she is not likely a vanilla townie.  I don't buy his claim, but I voted him long before that was an issue.

 

I said YOUR case was weak. 

 

What do you know about how Thane will flip that the rest of us don't?

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

Where's the irony?

 

Why are you mixing up char claims with role claims?

 

Also my wiki said that character only appears in one work (bohemian stuff) and is mentioned in passing at a few places as Holmes would be admiring her. Why that would fix her char to a role, I dunno.

 

As for your WoT example... I wouldn't hesitate to make Lanfear vanilla town in my game.

 

Its the same reasoning. Many of us have ruled you out (for now) because of your miller claim.  I am ruling Thane likely scum more because Irene Adler is a likely scum character.

 

It is possible for Irene Adler to be vanilla town, but unlikely.  Sure, based on what happens with Lanfear, I can see her as VT, but Graendal was clearly not so much.  In Holmes mythology, Adler was one of his greatest adversaries.  What is the point of having a themed game if it isn't based on the mythology?

 

So, it is unlikely that Irene Adler is VT.

 

I'm a huge fan of Sherlock Holmes, but I had to look up my char as well.

 

And I thought my memory was bad. You say she likely to be scum and then paint her as a Lanfear or Graendal type character. She wasn't really though was she. Just a clever woman who didn't take no crap from no man.

 

Interesting that you now seeking to discredit me and make me seem to be suspicious because I didn't blindly accept the incorrect information about Adler you were trying to peddle.

 

I don't know how Thane will flip ... I'm looking at all the options. He played terrible and did quite a bit of stuff that made me think he was Mafia, hence my initial vote on him.

 

His emo outbursts could be Mafia sulking at being found quickly or Town being all 'it's so unfair'.

 

What is most amusing is you turning on me ... Tsuki did the exact same thing when I started to question his posts. The enemy of my enemy is by no means likely to be my friend, after all.

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

I don't say anywhere that she's a bad woman though. Just a clever woman. She didn't even drop the arrogant prince bloke in it. All she did was not get done over by some guy and went on to live her life.

 

I see you still trying to spin it though.

 

Your posts are mostly fluff and repetition of other folk's points of view. The only thing I would make of your posts is that you trying to be clever and nudge and push towards Thane.

 

Who do you think are likely Town and who do you think are likely Mafia at the moment and why?

 

Why did you initially vote Thane and not X when you said the Thane case was weak and Turin and Tsuki had been better at finding mafia?

 

I didn't say Irene Adler was scum, I said she is not likely a vanilla townie.  I don't buy his claim, but I voted him long before that was an issue.

 

I said YOUR case was weak. 

 

What do you know about how Thane will flip that the rest of us don't?

 

Why did you vote him then? What's your most excellent and strong case on him?

[Myndrunner]

 

 

I don't understand why this is now about me and you, Ithi.   I thought this was a debate on whether character claims are a good basis to case someone. 

 

I voted Thane long before he claimed.  I still think he's scum.  I still doubt his claim.  I still believe it is unlikely that Irene Adler would be a VT.  I don't get how this has become some kind of push.

 

To me, it seems like you are preparing for Thane to flip town like you already know that he will.  That bothers me a lot. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

When we look at Mynd's posts we see he is saying 'likely' and 'not likely' a lot. This is because he does not want to be seen to be taking an absolute stance on things.

 

That way - he's never actually wrong about anything he has said. It is what Mafia do when they turning up the heat on a Townie. Now Mynd is going for me because he's worried of a derailment.

 

 

 

I now think that Thane is Town and urge an unvote.

 

 

We should look at Mynd and still X and possibly Tsuki too.

 

if Mynd is Mafia then he is devious and CSarmi's claim of Miller could be a 'brilliant plan'

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Mynd[/v]

[Ithillian Turambar]

I've already unvoted Thane a long time ago.

 

Absolutely this is about your posts and how I feel about them. Why shouldn't it be?

[Ithillian Turambar]

Mynd has been pushing misinformation about a role

 

Mynd has still not given a list of who he thinks is mafia or town.

 

Mynd has failed to acknowledge that he did say that Irene Adler would be a Mafia role

 

Maybe Mynd is just failing.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Mynd has failed to explain what his case for voting Thane was.

 

He's been asked a few times now.

 

 

He just wants people to keep looking at Thane.

 

I think we should look at him.

[Turin Turambar]

Mynd, WHY do you currently think Thane is mafia. Why did you vote him originally? please provide references.

[Turin Turambar]

Thane if you are town and really want to work through who the mafia are, unvote yourself.

[Turin Turambar]

CFD on Mynd?

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

 

I don't understand why this is now about me and you, Ithi.   I thought this was a debate on whether character claims are a good basis to case someone. 

 

I voted Thane long before he claimed.  I still think he's scum.  I still doubt his claim.  I still believe it is unlikely that Irene Adler would be a VT.  I don't get how this has become some kind of push.

 

To me, it seems like you are preparing for Thane to flip town like you already know that he will.  That bothers me a lot.

Epic. 'but I thought we were just talking about Character claims, Ithi'

 

oh dear me.

 

And of course you were pushing and pushing for a Thane Lynch. You told everyone to vote him - how is that not a push? You said he was the best option for a Lynch and that even Holmes himself would say that he would be the best choice, with the 'remove the unlikely and leave the likely' thingy.

[Turin Turambar]

unvote

 

vote: Mynd

[Basel Gill]

Thane you aren't supposed to talk about other ongoing games ever. That's a very serious offence.

Thane, Csarmi is correct here. Please don't reference other currently active games in this one. Also please avoid bringing up this game when posting in any other games you are playing, at least until this game is over.

[csarmi]

I can vote Mynd. Don't like the way he approaches the game.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Well we know you can ... everyone can. Even Thane can.

 

lol

 

 

Maybe Mynd could self vote and then we'd know he was a heartbroken Townie just trying to get by in this harsh Victorian world.

[Ithillian Turambar]

CFD on Mynd?

What's a CFD?