2nd most powerful Sangrael a man can use?

[FelixA9]

Any speculation on it? When Callindor is first mentioned it is said "there are only two stronger a MAN can use" which would rule out female Chodan Cal.

[Luckers]

My guess is that it was lost or destroyed during the Breaking. Most of the male angreal and sa'angreal were.

[SBoydW]

Well Chodean Kal is ibviously #1 and Callindor #3, I don't think there is ever any other reference to #2.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Luckers is probably right. Barring any evidence to the contrary (and there is none) it was most likely lost or destroyed during the Breaking.

[FelixA9]

Hopefully it shows up in Cadsuane's basket at an oportune moment rather than in the possession of Morindin.

[Orderofolde]

I guess that it is now known that it is Sakarnen, who Demandred gets and bonds to himself from Shara through some ritual or prophecy he undergoes to become their Bao the Wyld.  I really need to get Unfettered and read the Demandread account.

[Suttree]

Epic thread necro...

[udbabor520]

Epic thread necro...

 

There is nothing wrong with that.

[Sabio]

Yeah no way to be positive but like others I am guessing it was Sakarnen.  Though as powerful as it was I still am not sure how Dem didn't single handedly win the fight the way he was balefiring everything. But then again it seemed rather weak when Taim was using it,

[DemandredFO]

I would love to know how a Nym and a Wyrm ended up guarding Sakamen

[mb]

Callandor was first named in Great Hunt.

The quote of the 2 greater was in Shadow Rising.

 

The scene does not tell which was greater of the 2.  So Choedan Kal could be either #1 or #2; or equal to the other.

 

Ebou Dar might be one likely place for the other; if it survived till the time of the main series.

If it was destroyed, Trolloc Wars and War of Hundred Years could be 2 other times besides the Breaking.

[Orderofolde]

I'm wondering how the Forsaken track down the stasis boxes and how Dem is able to find both pieces of Sakarnen.  It is obviously a shadow-wrought Sa'angreal.

[Magicana]

Callandor was first named in Great Hunt.

The quote of the 2 greater was in Shadow Rising.

 

The scene does not tell which was greater of the 2.  So Choedan Kal could be either #1 or #2; or equal to the other.

 

Ebou Dar might be one likely place for the other; if it survived till the time of the main series.

If it was destroyed, Trolloc Wars and War of Hundred Years could be 2 other times besides the Breaking.

 

Choedan Kal is confirmed as the strongest. Sakarnen is confirmed in text by Demandred as the second strongest.

 

I'm wondering how the Forsaken track down the stasis boxes and how Dem is able to find both pieces of Sakarnen.  It is obviously a shadow-wrought Sa'angreal.

 

That's a good question. I've always thought of it as sort of like they knew what to look for.

 

The discovery of the second half of Sakarnen is covered in a short story that Brandon did (At least, his version of it).

[mb]

Could you provide quotes for those 2 confirmations?  And give exact references?

[dicetosser1]

and where can we find that short story??

[BFG]

It's called River of Souls and is part of the Unfettered Anthology published to raise money to pay Shawn Speakmans medical bills

[Magicana]

Could you provide quotes for those 2 confirmations?  And give exact references?

 

The Shadow Rising, The Traps of Rhuidean

 

 

The barest instant, and they both reached through the figure, through the ter'angreal, for one of the two most powerful sa'angreal ever made

 

And from Rivers of Souls

 

 

 

The One Power rushed into him, flooding him. Bao cast his head back, drinking it in, and

laughed.

Laughter. How long had it been since he had laughed? This land, these experiences, had

brought mirth back to him somehow. He exulted in the power. What he held was no cup, but the

second most powerful sa’angreal ever created for a man to use. D’jedt, known simply as the

Scepter during his time, had been so powerful that it had been kept locked away during the War of

the Power.

This…this was a grand weapon, greater than Callandor.

[DemandredFO]

My guess is RJ meant Sakarnan to have been destroyed or something because weapons are built to be used even if only once or twice, not locked away. Also, does anyone know if the notes said anything about the Sa'angreal.

[Sabio]

Not true, like the Choden Kal it could be that once made they feared the destruction it could cause and were too afraid to use it.  Just because it was made doesn't mean it had to be used.  Like with both sides agreeing not to use balefire anymore the forsaken also had a reason not to use it.  Yes it was powerful but what good was winning if everything was destroyed.  Not to mention any forsaken who possessed this would of been so powerful every other forsaken would of been trying to kill them.  If the shadow even had the scepter. it might of been something like the Choden Kal that during the war of power the light hid.

[DemandredFO]

I thought the Choedan Kal weren't used because the statues weren't finished until after the strike on SG, and had they waited, the light would've lost. I could be wrong but Letra was building the CK to be used.

[Magicana]

Not true, like the Choden Kal it could be that once made they feared the destruction it could cause and were too afraid to use it.  Just because it was made doesn't mean it had to be used.  Like with both sides agreeing not to use balefire anymore the forsaken also had a reason not to use it.  Yes it was powerful but what good was winning if everything was destroyed.  Not to mention any forsaken who possessed this would of been so powerful every other forsaken would of been trying to kill them.  If the shadow even had the scepter. it might of been something like the Choden Kal that during the war of power the light hid.

 

I thought the Choedan Kal weren't used because the statues weren't finished until after the strike on SG, and had they waited, the light would've lost. I could be wrong but Letra was building the CK to be used.

 

I posted this in the other thread, but here's Robert Jordan's 'Strike on Shayol Ghul'.

 

As for the too powerful, that definitely seems to be Lews Therin's opinion in Rand's head whenever he thinks of it.

 

 

 

Another plan at the time centered around two huge sa'angreal, one attuned to saidin and one to saidar, both so powerful that using them required special ter'angreal, like miniature versions of the great sa'angreal, constructed especially for the purpose of accessing the sa'angreal. This project had its detractors, too, for the sa'angreal were planned to be so powerful that either one might well provide enough of the One Power to destroy the world, while both together certainly would. Some doubted that so much of the One Power could be handled safely under the circumstances. Against that was the certainty, according to the plan's supporters, that used together they would provide sufficient Power to drive the Shadow's forces back, to defeat them completely and erect a barrier around Shayol Ghul until a safe method of dealing with the Bore was assured.

Detractors pointed out that the Bore had enlarged since it was first drilled, and behind the barricade erected by the sa'angreal it would continue to grow, so that eventually the Dark One might free himself within the barrier. The barrier might well contain the Dark One when all he could do was reach through the relatively small Bore, but could it hold back the Dark One let loose?

 

The hall of the Servants quickly divided into two camps, and those who favored one plan derided the other.

 

Support for the use of the great sa'angreal and opposition to attempting to implant the seals centered around a woman named Latra Posae Decume. Apparently a speaker of considerable force and persuasion, she gathered a large bloc around her, but what assured her victory was an agreement she reached with every female Aes Sedai of significant strength on the side of the Light. (In the manuscript, this agreement is called "the Fateful Concord," though it was doubtful that this was the name it was generally known.) Lews Therin's plan was too rash, too dangerous, and no woman who agreed to the Concord would take part in it. As precise placement of the seals was widely thought to require a circle, that apparently killed the plan, since men cannot create a circle, but can only be brought into one created by women. Work on the sa'angreal, in the form of two huge statues, was rushed forward.

 

Just as the paired sa'angreal were completed, disaster struck. The access ter'angreal were being made at a place far removed from the sa'angreal (apparently because of a danger of "uncontrolled resonances during the final stages," whatever that means), and that region was overrun by forces under Sammael. The only good point in it was that the ter'angreal themselves had been hidden and the place where they were made destroyed (its very existence had been a secret at the highest levels all along) so that neither Sammael nor anyone else for the Shadow knew that any of these things were now within their grasp. The side of the Light still had the sa'angreal, but no safe way to access them; without the ter'angreal it was certain that even the strongest Aes Sedai would be burned out instantly by the huge flow of the One Power.

 

Lews Therin argued again for his plan, acknowledging the risks but saying that was now the only chance, yet Posae maintained her opposition. Belief in the danger of misplacing the seals had spread, and many more female Aes Sedai had pledged to the "Fateful Concord," including a great number who were nowhere near strong enough to qualify for the raiding party circle. Tempers and passions rose, and an apparently unprecedented division along male-female lines began to develop among the Aes Sedai in general, if not within the Hall itself. Finally the Hall decided to continue with Latra Posae's plan, and her people began working to smuggle the access ter'angreal out of Shadow-controlled territory.

 

Almost immediately on the heels of Sammael's advance, armies commanded by Demandred and Bel'al struck heavily. At this point in the war, halting an advance by the Shadow was the best that could be hoped for; no conquered territory had been regained in the past two years. In intense and bloody fighting, these two drives were barely contained, but Demandred and Bel'al kept the pressure on. Sammael began a new offensive, also scarcely held, and there is mention of heavy military activity elsewhere. Apparently both of the great sa'angreal were threatened by these offensives; in fact, it was possible that they were the target. Massive riots swept a number of cities still held by the Light and the "re-emergence of the peace faction" is mentioned, apparently a group demanding negotiations with the Forsaken. The final defeat was at hand; the will of the people to resist was fading, and should any one of the three major offensives commanded by Forsaken break through the end would be only a matter of time, perhaps as little as months. With Latra Posae's opposition continuing in the face of these events, and the female Aes Sedai holding to their pledge and thus making use of a circle impossible (the lines of division had hardened to a point where many female Aes Sedai refused to speak to male Aes Sedai, and the reverse as well), Lews Therin resolved to carry out his plan without the approval of, or even approaching, the Hall. Plainly it was going to be impossible to hold the huge sa'angreal long enough for the access ter'angreal to be smuggled out. In Lews Therin's view, there was no longer any choice.

[Sabio]

I remember someone asking RJ why when the Chodenl Kal plan clearly couldn't happen anymore why the female Aes Sedai didn't agree with LTT since it was the only plan available and their only hope.  He described it as the deer in the head lights syndrome,  where they knew something had to be done but they were just to paniced to think clearly so just basically were going to do nothing. 

[Orderofolde]

 

Callandor was first named in Great Hunt.

The quote of the 2 greater was in Shadow Rising.

 

The scene does not tell which was greater of the 2.  So Choedan Kal could be either #1 or #2; or equal to the other.

 

Ebou Dar might be one likely place for the other; if it survived till the time of the main series.

If it was destroyed, Trolloc Wars and War of Hundred Years could be 2 other times besides the Breaking.

 

Choedan Kal is confirmed as the strongest. Sakarnen is confirmed in text by Demandred as the second strongest.

 

I'm wondering how the Forsaken track down the stasis boxes and how Dem is able to find both pieces of Sakarnen.  It is obviously a shadow-wrought Sa'angreal.

 

That's a good question. I've always thought of it as sort of like they knew what to look for.

 

The discovery of the second half of Sakarnen is covered in a short story that Brandon did (At least, his version of it).

 

I've always thought that maybe these boxes had a GPS locator so to speak tied to the power, and the Forsaken in their travels could pick up on its signal.  Maybe a warding?

[mb]

wards I take either alert or produce some kind reaction.

 

There is a weave that can locate metals.  Maybe there is a similar weave for stasis boxes and/or for their contents and/or for their material; and perhaps the Forsaken know it.

[Orderofolde]

Perhaps, that is kind of my thought process as well, you just put it into better words.  I like that, locator weaves, like Moiraine and the coins she gives the three boys.