Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

The "OMG I just finished!" Thread

Recommended Posts

I just finished and I feel like it was a good ending. the book made me laugh and cry especilly Bela's death, and Mat and Rand's arguement about who had done more for the world. It had stuff I expected and stuff that took me compelely by surpise. Will I read it again..... yes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished the book this afternoon, and am still digesting it, so to speak.  As a whole, I enjoyed it.

 

I honestly expected a lot of the side characters to fade into the background in this book.  I love the rich world-building and character fleshing out that takes place in the heart of the series, but at some point, the focus had to come back to the core characters. Just because we weren't with much in this installment didn't really cheapen characters like Siuan, Thom, Juilin, Domon, et al. Their stories had been told....they are three dimensional...it was time to return to the characters we started with.

 

As for the ending, I get it.  I think I understand why Jordan left off where he did.  If he had answered every little thing we as a fandom wanted to know, wrapped everything up neat and pretty with a bow, we'd have no real reason to go further.  Oh sure, we'd do rereads and revisit favorite scenes now and then, but the story and world would just......end.  As it stands, there are still things that need to happen in this story, this world....so we imagine them, we create them ourselves, we still discuss them.  In doing this, we let the world keep breathing, the Pattern keep weaving in some ways, and the Wheel keep turning.  We get a world that lives on, beyond RJ, beyond Brandon, and even beyond us.  We get a world that never truly leaves us, and after reflection, I would not want it any other way.

 

Anyone has a perfectly valid right to disagree with me heartily, of course. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

That stupid horse finally died.

Bwahaha AWESOME!

 

 

I can't be the only one who got sick of everybody loving that damn thing.

 LOL :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey when did Mat die twice?  He thinks he is no longer bound to the horn because of when he was hanged but the heros imply it was from another death that Rand saved him from.

When the Foxy Folk hanged him at Rhuidean and again when he was blown up in Rand's fight with Ravin. Rand Balefired the crap outta Ravin to bring him back (and Avi, too, if memory serves)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

When the Foxy Folk hanged him at Rhuidean and again when he was blown up in Rand's fight with Ravin. Rand Balefired the crap outta Ravin to bring him back (and Avi, too, if memory serves)

Per RJ he never died in Rhuidean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never understood the whole theory of him dying in Rhuidean.  Unless people suspected Rand of being able to resurrect him or keeping paramedic supplies in his pocket it didnt make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

When the Foxy Folk hanged him at Rhuidean and again when he was blown up in Rand's fight with Ravin. Rand Balefired the crap outta Ravin to bring him back (and Avi, too, if memory serves)

Per RJ he never died in Rhuidean.

Huh... I didn't get that. I think that if Rand hadn't been there, he WOULD have died, so on that count, he owes his life to Rands actions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished the book this afternoon, and am still digesting it, so to speak.  As a whole, I enjoyed it.

 

I honestly expected a lot of the side characters to fade into the background in this book.  I love the rich world-building and character fleshing out that takes place in the heart of the series, but at some point, the focus had to come back to the core characters. Just because we weren't with much in this installment didn't really cheapen characters like Siuan, Thom, Juilin, Domon, et al. Their stories had been told....they are three dimensional...it was time to return to the characters we started with.

 

As for the ending, I get it.  I think I understand why Jordan left off where he did.  If he had answered every little thing we as a fandom wanted to know, wrapped everything up neat and pretty with a bow, we'd have no real reason to go further.  Oh sure, we'd do rereads and revisit favorite scenes now and then, but the story and world would just......end.  As it stands, there are still things that need to happen in this story, this world....so we imagine them, we create them ourselves, we still discuss them.  In doing this, we let the world keep breathing, the Pattern keep weaving in some ways, and the Wheel keep turning.  We get a world that lives on, beyond RJ, beyond Brandon, and even beyond us.  We get a world that never truly leaves us, and after reflection, I would not want it any other way.

 

Anyone has a perfectly valid right to disagree with me heartily, of course. 

I do, I understand where you're coming from. But just as there is a large amount of space between the Light and The Shadow, there is a large amount of space between having an overwrought ending and stifling your creation and just letting it die. I enjoyed the book as a whole, but this ending felt clumsy. Like someone trying to hit all the bases without really saying anything. It's one thing to leave Mat thinking about his new son or daughter and being a Prince, it's another to not anything or give cryptic tidbits for us to squabble over for years to come. There was no real mystery in this ending, it was a happily ever after "and the story continues!" type of cop out. And a Brick Wall. It didn't have any life because it was written outside the context of how the story grew and gained a life of it's own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed the book immensely.  Could it have been better?  Absolutely.  However, I think that would have required 3 more books.  AMoL was a very good read considering the limitations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the book, on the whole, gave me what I needed and even some of what I most wanted--it was incredibly fast-paced, you felt the sense of the "whole world being balanced on the edge of a blade" and the costs associated with victory. In addition to being more continuously gripping than any other WoT book, it was also funny--I actually laughed out loud once or twice while reading it, because the gallow's humor was really well-done.

 

But generally, I think the first three-quarters of the book or so--right through Chapter 37--were much better than the final stretch, where all at once it becomes clear that there were just too many balls in the air. "Oh, yeah, I have to deal with Padan Fain (and bizarrely give him a new name at this stage?)" and "Whoops, the entire book later, and there's still the same fight with Slayer to be had" and finally killing pretty much all the Forsaken at once, at the end. 

 

Not to mention it's ridiculous to think that *all* of the Sharans would sign on, and no one would break ranks, when fighting alongside Trollocs, but that's a different point.

 

But I'm kind of mad, because I think the last bit in the ending is kind of silly and tends to undermine the meaning of the whole series. The series seems to be about *choice* and *obligation*--about choosing to meet your obligation or not, basically. The good characters make the choice to do the difficult, right thing. But at the end, Rand, who has two children on the way, a father, a brother, etc., gallivants off to sight-see! I don't forgive him for not telling Tam he's alive. That line earlier in the book, about how Tam had grown into the void in all those years without Kari, and while teaching Rand responsibility... 

 

The ending we got for Rand was a fine ending for Jack Sparrow at the end of the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy. He was always a clown and a loner, so he could go off and have more adventures and we felt great about it. But that is not Rand al'Thor. People *need* him, and even if he weren't willing to "stay" as the Dragon Reborn, creating a new identity for himself through which he could be there for his loved ones was the right thing to do. The ending seems like running away, and it seems easy, and it doesn't seem in character.

 

Sorry, I'm finding it kind of hard to live with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished the book this afternoon, and am still digesting it, so to speak.  As a whole, I enjoyed it.

 

I honestly expected a lot of the side characters to fade into the background in this book.  I love the rich world-building and character fleshing out that takes place in the heart of the series, but at some point, the focus had to come back to the core characters. Just because we weren't with much in this installment didn't really cheapen characters like Siuan, Thom, Juilin, Domon, et al. Their stories had been told....they are three dimensional...it was time to return to the characters we started with.

 

As for the ending, I get it.  I think I understand why Jordan left off where he did.  If he had answered every little thing we as a fandom wanted to know, wrapped everything up neat and pretty with a bow, we'd have no real reason to go further.  Oh sure, we'd do rereads and revisit favorite scenes now and then, but the story and world would just......end.  As it stands, there are still things that need to happen in this story, this world....so we imagine them, we create them ourselves, we still discuss them.  In doing this, we let the world keep breathing, the Pattern keep weaving in some ways, and the Wheel keep turning.  We get a world that lives on, beyond RJ, beyond Brandon, and even beyond us.  We get a world that never truly leaves us, and after reflection, I would not want it any other way.

 

Anyone has a perfectly valid right to disagree with me heartily, of course. 

 

Strongly disagree, hate it when writers leave the ending unwritten. I want to know what happened I don't want to imagine it. 

Pisses me off when this happens in books and movies. Seriously absolutely hate it. I'm big time disappointed :/

 

I'd rather have less drawn out fights and more explanation of what happens at the end. I dont want to have to imagine and dwell on what happened to the characters after the fact, I have better things to do. Give me a conclusion and be done with it.

 

 

 

Edit*

Also why does Rand run away from everybody? he get's all this compassion for his people and bla bla bla then when the world is in shambles he walks away???

I would think he would want to be part of the rebuilding and help the people he could not save. I know he "let go" but still, with his new found self you would think he would want to stick around and help. Also considering hes the last person from the age of legends that can share his knowledge with the world.

Edited by bossman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16 years. It's kind of strange to have that end. It wasn't a staggering failure like COT, or an intensely boring meandering book like POD, but it was weak, over rushed, and an uniquely unsatisfying end to a decade and a half. I am still glad I bought it. But I'm pissed I bought it for full price

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

personally i loved it i understand why the ending was left so loose but i honestly think it will drive me insane over the next few days

i need to know how he lit that pipe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He can manipulate the Pattern the way people (no, not just dreamwalkers, but anyone in TAR by default) can manipulate the dream. He wanted his pipe lit. And there was high quality junk lit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What a moronic book. WoT really showed its level as a Saturday morning cartoon series about TEH EVILZ. The Dark One speaking in all caps was bad enough, but then Rand started doing it - both sounding ultra cheesy and dumb. Rand's and the DO's battle of wills was completely ridiculous, and made me think that even Buffy the Vampire Slayer wouldn't sink that low. The cast of sitcom characters never stopped bickering with each other, and the Dark One and the Forsaken completely lacked any depth or motivation. The last Battle boiled down to characters endlessly killing Trollocks en masse. Out of all the main characters only Egwene and her personality-free loverbuddy died. The prose was beyond good and evil, reading the novel felt like reading a description from the back of a video game case. The end result was that Rand came down to the DO's turf, stuck a thing in a thing, and the prison was remade anew. Great. It's funny that he originally had no way idea of doing it and didn't really have any sort of a plan, but main character powers did not fail him.

 

Edited by Wool-headed lummox
language

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely need some time to digest this book. Two things however I really disliked...First would be Demandred. It just seems rather lazy to have him in Shara the whole time and pop up this completely alien an unknown army right at the end of the series. Then he's, as someone said, a giant robot shooting lasers all over the battlefield. Also, he's constantly  yelling for Lews to come face him. Did the moron seriously not know he would be in Shayol Ghul fighting the DO? Second would be Padan Fain. Such an incredibly intense, intricate character comprised of all these different things...and he just shows up for a few pages and get strangled and stabbed. Huge letdown.

 

Other than that..I'm still letting things sink in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the real reason Rand did what he did is that the Dragon's Peace was predicated upon the fact that Rand was giving his life in exchange for everyone's agreement. His entire pitch began with him saying this.

 

Could the Dragon's Peace survive with a living Dragon? Maybe. But his decision ensures that it will.

 

Also of note is how happy Rand is riding away. I thin Rand would have been significantly more upset had he not planned to see any of the people he cared about ever again.

Edited by Sarlic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JUST FINISHED!!

 

Ending kinda wasnt what i wanted, but still the books ended on a fitting note.

 

Have to say, glad that Demandred actually was considered hard to take down in this book, it seemed alot of the time the forsaken, though hard, didnt live up to what you thought they would. Though arrogance seemed to be there downfall.

 

Would have liked to know a little more of what happened later, since there wont be anymore books. Can only hope!

Egwene's death was a shame, after 13 books of her rising to such a powerful character, but glad more main characters didnt die, killing main's just for the sake of it is quite annoying.

 

But a great series and a great ending overall! Have to reread the entire wot again now!

Edited by Noname

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely need some time to digest this book. Two things however I really disliked...First would be Demandred. It just seems rather lazy to have him in Shara the whole time and pop up this completely alien an unknown army right at the end of the series. Then he's, as someone said, a giant robot shooting lasers all over the battlefield. Also, he's constantly  yelling for Lews to come face him. Did the moron seriously not know he would be in Shayol Ghul fighting the DO? Second would be Padan Fain. Such an incredibly intense, intricate character comprised of all these different things...and he just shows up for a few pages and get strangled and stabbed. Huge letdown.

 

Other than that..I'm still letting things sink in.

 

He believed as before, that Rand wouldnt have been able to leave the ones he loved to fight on the battlefields without him. He had shown time and time again that he wouldnt allow it and thats why Demandred believed he was there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read the ending last night. I read the last 2 chapters and the epilogue out loud to my wife so that we could discuss immediately - which was a great idea because it allowed me to share it with my wife.

 

My fear had been that Robert Jordan would be portraying a world view that I find absurd - for those who have read Augustine, I was afraid he was something of a Manichean dualist. Based on the ending, I don't think that's what he was trying to express. It actually seemed more like a free-will defense for real life and a free will theodicy within the world of the wheel of time. That is to say, he's giving a reason that evil might be necessary in a world controlled by a good being - the value of people having free will.

 

Since that's a contentious thesis, I tend to think it's going to leave a large part of the fan base rather displeased. As for myself, well, that part fits my world view and was very comfortable and satisfying. Now if only the Wheel of Time could answer the question of why contingent things (e.g. the Wheel) exist.

 

There were a number of moments when you were beaten about the head and face with an answer to a question (e.g. Mat's fulfillment of the die and live again bit), but there were more subtle answers/corrections/reveals as well (Perrin's hawk). There were plenty of satisfying "I saw it coming a mile away" moments that I thought were well set up (Noal and the Horn). I really appreciated the Tinkers on the field at the last battle. My first reaction was that it was an unsubtle way of telling us that Daved Hanlon was about, but the changes it showed in Raen were great. Given the words dropped ahead about RJ leaving instructions that some things not be resolved made me worry that there would be too many loose ends for a satisfying ending - most got resolved and the ones that don't are about the right amount to give a sense that this remains a breathing and interesting setting. And at the end of it all, Rand gets what he always wanted, a chance at a quiet life without the burdens of fate looming.

 

I was also sad that Tam had to go on thinking his son dead. I read the series a lot differently than when I started because I've gotten married and had a son since I picked up the books in 1997. I'm glad, the college kid who picked these up in '97 wouldn't have been able to appreciate the ending very well. The college kid who read the ending today (working on a higher degree now) was a little better prepared, but as a husband and father, I found a lot more value in it than I ever could have almost half my life ago.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. One of the more emotional parts for me was when Rand held Elayne's belly and thought about his kids. Would not have had much of an impact on me two years ago. 

 

Other big moment for me, Bela's death. WTF? Really?!?! You let that obnoxious w***e Faile live but not the horse that carried the Dragon Reborn before anyone even knew who he was. Hopefully she is a Hero in The Horse Dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I needed this last night, ugh (complete n00b)...I handled the character deaths much better than I expected to, but the end frustrated me, that Rand would just leave everyone (that he wasn't in a romantic relationship with) behind. Sure, there's potential for more with Cadsuane etc but I feel like if they wanted us to feel more hopeful they could have done that...the cynic in me rereads the "wind" epigraph at the end and is like "is this just Jordan in the chance he dies telling us to suck it". Ugh, and then I feel ashamed of myself for caring so much when I'm so poorly capable of empathy in real life...barely 24 hours before I had met Sanderson on the IL stop and was on top of the world...sorry to ramble, I just have a pile-up of emotions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finished yesterday afternoon. It has been an amazing journey, I have been reading the books since since The Great Hunt was published, now it is over. Goodbye to a world that, although at time was tedious, I am glad I explored it.

Thank you, Jason Denzel and Matt Hatch (I know he runs another site but, for me these were the main ones that I visited) for providing a place to discuss, speculate and debate.

My highlight moments (not in any particular order):

1) Demandred's appearance

2) Moridin running from Rand in the dream shard

3) Mat's overall generalship

4) Tam teaching Rand 

5) Mat winning over General Galgan

6) Min's new position

7) The death of Egwene - as I have grown older, I viewed her death like the death of a daughter, I actually choked up a little.

8) The return of The Heroes of the Horn (except for when the wolves showed up, that was a little over the top)

9) Lan's killing of Demandred

10) Thom killing Jean Caide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My favorite moments -

Mat and Rand's one up competition

Olver "He had lost so many people, but one of them ... one ... had come back for him"

Birgette's return

Thom's casual killing of anyone who tried to go into the cave, while trying to compose an epic.

Perrin killing Lanfear

Tuon's casual remark that she can kill Mat now whenever she wishes

Tam at the funeral pyre

 

 

I will say, I had this horrible feeling through out the book that there was going to be an even more sunshiny ending than there should be.  I was afraid that it was going to be an "oh these were all just possiblities but now everyone's really alive and you can defeat the bad guy now" kind of ending.  I'm really glad it wasn't.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...