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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Wool-headed lummox

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  1. what of Shemirhage? was´t she trying to get hold of Seanchan or did she just loll around as truthspeaker for the fun of it. And not Demandred unleash balefire ? a) we don´t know what he did in Shara , he maby killed several armies with it and second what did he do in the last battle , yes shouting balefire . and the last question : yes if you read the dark one wanted the pattern destroyed so he could remake it in his image - and the forsaken at least Demandred and Moridin was fine with it , and they were two of very few forsaken left . So you arguments dear sir is null and void. Pardon me, I have no idea what you just said. What I said was, there were originally 13 Forsaken, who thought that the one with the strongest power base will become ruler of the world when the Dark One breaks free. Almost all of them ended up cramped into the nations of Randland, as if there is some reason that makes Randland so special. What the hell was Belal thinking, becoming ruler of tiny Tear? Why did Sammael bother with Illian? How could Graendal have limited herself to Arad Doman? Only one Forsaken established a power base in the gigantic continent of Seanchan. Only one Forsaken established a power base in the gigantic closed-off land of Shara. Shouldn't more Forsaken be interested in the resources, armies and channellers that such vast lands can provide? Zero Forsaken established a power-base among the Aiel, not even among the Shaido. Zero Forsaken decided to take control of the Sea Folk. Shouldn't they be interested in a vast tribal military force, or a huge fleet, and the secret channelers these cultures possess? In preparations for the Last Battle, the Forsaken dropped like flies and lost the measly power bases they initially held. Which is the reason all the Shadow could count on during the Last Battle were Trollocks and Sharans, when there was so much more they could have done. The Shadow is entirely moronic and incompetent, and always has been, and it completely deflates the tension and meaning of the conflict.
  2. With this much power he should be able to level mountains and raise volcanoes, sink continents and create country-wideearthquakes.
  3. Shara was completely sealed off from the rest of the world for 3500 years. There's no way for them to speak the same language as Randlanders. Anyway, the biggest disappointment for me personally, in regards to the Shadow, is that the AMoL finally revealed what I was suspecting for a long time. That there's no great framework uniting the schemes and plots of the Shadow, no metaphysics or philosophy explaining the forces of Light and Shadow. The Dark One didn't have any master plan, different pieces did not form a single picture, and it all boiled down to Rand choosing either to surrender or to take hold of the Dark One completely down in the Bore. All the slaughtering and warfare was for nothing, because Rand's victory/failure was the only thing that determined the end result. There's no explanation for where Mordeth/Fain gained his powers, why they were an antithesis to the Shadow despite being just as evil, why Shadar Logoth annihilated the taint on Saidin, and no specific role for Fain to play in the book. He just showed up, waved his tentacles around, and got killed. He added nothing to the plot of the book, and added nothing to the story of the series ever since the invasion into the Two Rivers, and should have been killed off right there to stop wasting everyone's time. The mystery of Demandred also turned out to be a fluke. As a matter of fact, the whole cryptic scene in LoC where the DO tells Demandred what to do, and Demandred is mind-blown with shock and amazement was a fake - there's nothing that the DO could have told Demandred that would have surprised him so much. What did he say, that there's a large nation in the East ruled by channelers, that can be seized easily without anyone in Randland finding out? What's so mind-blowingly shocking about that? As a matter of fact, why was Demandred the only who bothered taking control of such a huge territory? Graendal even went to Shara and kidnapped their symbolic rulers for no reason, but never bothered establishing a power base there, what the hell? What did the line "will you unleash balefire for me?" mean, Demandred did nothing of the sort, at least, no more than anyone else on the Shadow's side. If unleashing balefire helps the DO get his victory, then why did the Shadow stop using it thousands of years ago, for fear of reality collapsing? Isn't reality collapsing exactly what the DO wants? Is he so incompetent that he can't trick/force his own subordinates into doing exactly what he needs? Ugh, the magnitude of failure in this volume and by extension the entire series is so great, it's almost spectacular. I can go on and on.
  4. Of course not. These problems are inevitable in a project with an author who has no sense of pace and no idea of what needs to make it into the final draft, and what needs to be cut. What was the point of extending Perrin rescues Faile from the Shaido over such a long time? Why did Elayne spend so much time becoming the Queen of England? Why was Demandred completely obscured from the reader for such a long time? Why were so many plotline resolutions cramped into the final volume, and how did RJ even envision going from KoD type of pacing (near-total standstill after a total standstill) to the crazy amount of action and continuity porn in AMoL? AMoL made for an extremely crazy reading experience, it was completely unlike any other WoT novel, and felt like more of an obligatory plot-line closing supplement than a real book. The plotlines were not only disconnected from one another, they also lost their significance because there were just too many of them. And the Shadow was simply bland generic bad guys killing things because they are bad, and this includes the Dark One. Was anyone expecting an actual reason as to why the DO is doing what he does, or what his origins are, or anything at all noteworthy or interesting about him? YOU WILL SEE THE TRUTH YOU WILL SEE YOU CANNOT WIN THE WHEEL WILL BE BROKEN MY TOASTER IS ON FIRE INSERT RANDOM SUPER VILLAIN CLICHE HERE. Shuddup.
  5. Did Androl really just show up to oust Taim from the Black Tower, and fade back into the background?
  6. That doesn't have anything to do with my point, but Shara has been completely isolated from the rest of the world since the Breaking. When Shara was formed as a single nation, people still spoke the Old Tongue. Over the course of centuries, the Old Tongue turned into the New Tongue, to the point where the two languages lost any semblance of mutual intelligibility. It is impossible for people in Shara to speak the same language as people elsewhere, because the Old Tongue could not have developed into the same language in several isolated societies. The Aiel and the Seanchan were also isolated from Randlanders for centuries if not thousands of years, so there should be at least four distinct languages in the WoT world.
  7. No it isn't. There's just one language in the WoT world (which is a completely ridiculous idea, but anyway) - the New Tongue, which is a modified version of the Old Tongue, which looks nothing like English. Well, the Old Tongue looks nothing like anything, because it's just a few nonsensical syllables with too many apostrophes, borrowed from any foreign word RJ happened to think looked cool. Purely stylistic choices, like spelling wild with y, completely do not translate from English to the New Tongue and are bereft of meaning. Somehow, it seems like something Brandson Sanderson would do, rather than Robert Jordan, but who knows.
  8. Reading the book felt like this. Trollocks, Trollocks, Moridin dying for a suicide (olol), DARK ONE dropping cheesy comic book villain lines in all caps, Trollocks, Trollocks, Bao the Wyld (I wonder how the Sharan managed to pronounce his name with a Y, or why it even needs a Y, considering that the language they speak in isn't supposed to be anything like English? Or why Demandred went with a name that befits a male stripper?), Trollocks-Trollocks-Trollocks ad nauseum, Sharans, Trollocks, SUDDENLY FAIN WTF IS A SHAISAM FAIN DIES THE END THANK YOU FOR READING. Huh? Is it just me, or did Fain lose any relevance to the plot after trying and failing to destroy the Two Rivers in the guise of Ordeith, seventy nine books ago? Even the wound he slashed into Rand's side ended up being irrelevant, as well as anything else he did. Why did we need to read about this worthless character for so long?
  9. Egwene is the absolute worst character they could have chosen to kill off. We spent so much time watching her train to become an Aes Sedai, a Wise One, rise to power as the youngest Amyrlin ever, settle the division in the White Tower, initiate a number of much-needed reforms, eradicate the Black Ajah, confront the Seanchan empress, was promised to be the longest-reigning and most powerful Amyrlin in history - and she's the only one who is first deprived of her loved one, and then of her life? Was this really a way of saying "even the most May Suish character can die in this series"? Even Rand got to remain alive, by predictably taking over Moridin's body. Nobody else out of the first and second-tier characters died, so what gives? I just don't see what Egwene's death was supposed to accomplish, especially considering that her replacement Cadsuane will likely die of old age very soon. It's the least of the problems that this awful, awful volume suffers from, but it is the most baffling one. Feels like it was picked completely at random, or based on fan hatred.
  10. That scene where he and Rand start bragging about their achievements was incredibly anti-climatic and felt like horrible fan faction, not to mention completely out-of-character. WoT characters shouldn't talk like high school jocks from Midwest USA, and I've no doubt this is purely Brandon Sanderson's failing. He really dropped the ball.
  11. I don't understand why the Dark One was suddenly retconned into being the source of all evil. It's been established that the Dark One is outside the Pattern, and is completely sealed off from it at all times, except from the end of the Age of Legends until the end of the Third Age. It's also been established that the Pattern is neither good nor evil, and that the Creator doesn't influence it at all. This means that evil is part of the Pattern as much as good, and that the DO is just this one guy who shows up and trashes the place - why would killing him suddenly mean that evil vanishes from the world, and everyone is lobotomized into being good all the time? Why is an immortal bodiless entity even killable in the first place?
  12. What a moronic book. WoT really showed its level as a Saturday morning cartoon series about TEH EVILZ. The Dark One speaking in all caps was bad enough, but then Rand started doing it - both sounding ultra cheesy and dumb. Rand's and the DO's battle of wills was completely ridiculous, and made me think that even Buffy the Vampire Slayer wouldn't sink that low. The cast of sitcom characters never stopped bickering with each other, and the Dark One and the Forsaken completely lacked any depth or motivation. The last Battle boiled down to characters endlessly killing Trollocks en masse. Out of all the main characters only Egwene and her personality-free loverbuddy died. The prose was beyond good and evil, reading the novel felt like reading a description from the back of a video game case. The end result was that Rand came down to the DO's turf, stuck a thing in a thing, and the prison was remade anew. Great. It's funny that he originally had no way idea of doing it and didn't really have any sort of a plan, but main character powers did not fail him.
  13. [Removed] We continue our discussion of the WoT magic systems, its strengths and many, many weaknesses. Aha, now I've caught you thinking of post-factum explanations to make the elements fit the weave. There's nothing spiritual about a gateway. It's certainly supernatural, but so is everything else a channeller does. A gateway is a dimensional window from place A to place B, a purely utilitarian phenomenon without any spiritual significance. And male channellers do not "burn" a hole in the Pattern, Rand says "bore" or "punch" a hole. Earth could have been used just as easily as Fire. So now the mechanics of how the weaves work depend on the channellers understanding of physics? I will remind you that the WoT universe is set in the same universe as our world at a later/earlier era, sound in Randland works exactly as it does in real life, and fire has nothing to do with it. By your logic, the weave for eavesdropping shouldn't work at all, because the Aes Sedai have the wrong understanding of how sound travels. There are settings where the mage's understanding of how the world works physically changes the rules of that world, like Mage the Ascension or Planescape. WoT is not one of these settings. And the connection to the human body of the speaker has even less to do with this weave, it's the sounds the speaker emits that the weave intercepts, connecting to the speaker's body is unnecessary. Sorry, no, this explanation is flat-out illogical. Why? Because eavesdropping has nothing to do with Fire and Water. At. All. You're making the same error again. What primitive societies do or do not believe does not affect the rules of physics of that world. Earth isn't needed for arrows made purely of fire, Fire made of the One Power fuels itself. Choosing Fire over Earth to represent strength/solidity is illogical. Drawing on mythology is inevitable. It's not intelligent that RJ never works out his own rules for how the elements in channeling work, and instead draws on whatever random snippet appeals to him at any given moment. This makes his setting messy and incoherent. He does this a lot, and not just in channeling. Yes, you do. I've quoted your post where you said that Water stands for one part of the body (blood) in super-healing, and that Water stands for the entire body in regular healing. The mind and soul do not affect the body in the sense of physical wounds on the body. You can't get a torn wound from thinking too hard or feeling sad, it's a purely corporeal ailment, which means that neither the mind nor the soul need to be touched by the weave. Otherwise we might as well say that any given person affects the world they live in, and that the Healing weave needs to touch the entire universe for it to work. Everything is connected, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, and a weave that in no way affects the mind or soul has no reason to touch them. I'm already wearing glasses. This is what weaves look like in the comic: As far as I can see, it's just a several irregular curves sprouting from a glowing light, without any particular shape. My point is that characters don't need to learn to use their Talents in WoT. They just use them, full stop. There is nothing connecting a Talent to its owner's personality or actions, it's all completely passive and utilitarian, and accepted without further question or speculation. Nobody ever stops to ask themselves, how is it they are receiving visions of the future, they simply say "the Pattern wills it", as if it explains anything. This is a very shallow way of creating a magical system, on the level of Pierce Anthony's Xanth series. Absolutely not, most characters with prophetic abilities in the books/films/games that I've read/watched/played need to devote their lives to training and maintaining these abilities.
  14. A gateway is opened with Spirit and Fire. Why these two particular elements and not others? Deathgates, which are gateways that spontaneously propel themselves across a distance, are created with Spirit, Fire, and Earth. Why is Earth added to the weave, does it have something to do with distance? However, when Moiraine weaves the Finder, which allows her to sense the boys over a great distance, she does it with Spirit and not Earth. The ward against eavesdropping is created with Fire, Air, and a trace of Water. Why? Arrows of Fire are created with Fire and Earth. Why not just Fire? Compulsion uses all five elements. Why all five and not four or three? Rand makes a bridge with Air and Fire. Why Fire and not Earth? More weaves here: http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/main/true_source/weaves.html#ca See, these elements (among others) are those used by a great deal of philosophical and mythological systems, like Ancient Greek, Babylonian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. Of course, each of these systems uses them in its own way, so in the end each of the elements has a vast pool of (often vague or contradictory) attributes, some of which can be scavenged and used to justify a given situation. But this isn't a very intelligent approach. The problem with WoT, is that lacks its own rules for how the elements can and cannot be used and combined within the scope of the series. Simply put, Earth in WoT doesn't stand for any particular set of thematically-joined attributes, such as strength, durability, protection, distance, nature - it stands for whatever the author felt like doing at the moment. With this lackluster system in place, the most you can do with any given element is trace its immediate real-life manifestation. A fireball is certain to be created with Fire, that much is guaranteed. But not much else. This is all well and good, but you're using one standard of symbolism for standard Healing and a different standard for Nynaeve's Super-Healing. With Super-Healing, you take the element's closest real-life manifestation (water is blood, air is breath) and with standard Healing you say that water is the body and air is the mind. You've perfectly illustrated the lack of consistency and precision in how the elements are used in WoT. Remember, we're talking about two Healing weaves which have the same effect and purpose, there shouldn't be any radical difference in how the elements are used. You've also made the error of equating the three powers of standard Healing with body-mind-soul. Healing affects neither the mind, nor the soul - it only heals corporeal ailments, which means your explanation is not applicable. Not to mention the fact that the human body is not composed of all five elements - the soul is not part of the body, it lives within the body but is separate from it, and as I said healing does not affect the soul at all - Nynaeve had to invent separate weaves to heal Compulsion, madness, and severing, which are undoubtedly ailments of the mind+soul rather than the body. By your logic, super-healing should only include four elements, and standard healing shouldn't work at all because it lacks the Earth element which stands for "minerals". So in the first part of your post you say weaves cannot be represented in a 2D visual medium (why the hell not?) and in the second part you say that RJ worked with those who represented weaves in a 2D visual medium. That's self-contradictory. I've read the New Spring comic, and I have to say, the weaves there look like unrecognizable shapeless masses. The fact that Rj never bothered to depict a channelling weave indicates that he, in all likelihood, lacked a clear understanding of how channelling looks and works in-universe, and didn't put much effort into working out its rules. Are you telling me that your hubby could play songs on his guitar since the first moment he ever touched it? That he didn't spend months working out the basic technique? That he can instantaneously play a musical instrument he's never seen before because he was born with a musical talent? Because that's how most Talents work in WoT. Elaida never trained her Foretelling ability to be a better prophet, she didn't need meditate to clear her mind of emotions and distractions, she simply gets an SMS from the Pattern at random times when she least expects it. Why? Just because. The idea that someone as insane and unrestrained as Elaida can glance into the future and see the objective truth is, in itself, laughable, and proves that not only does a Talent generally not require any amount of training or preparation in the WoT universe, it's also completely unconnected to one's personality and the kind of life they lead. Aviendha never had to train her Talent either, she just touched an angreal and BAM - instant knowledge of how it works. And if the angreal is too complicated (like the Pillars), she never makes any effort to concentrate, use her Talent consciously, and work it out the mystery in the end, because there's nothing to work with, her ability is completely passive and utilitarian. At least Aviendha has the option of touching or not touching an angreal, anyone who can Foretell is literally a walking mobile phone that can receive voicemail from the Pattern at any given moment of their life. No, this isn't true. You don't wake up one day and suddenly start singing with the voice of an opera primadonna, you have to devote years to discovering and unlocking your talent before it starts to pay off. Andrea Bocelli put a lot of effort into mastering a great variety of musical elements. As a rule, channellers put no effort into mastering their Talent in WoT. Again, I'm talking about Talents, not active channelling here.
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