November 7th, 1606: Day 4 (CONCLUDED)

[bgrishinko]

Fair enough then.

[Niniel]

I liked Verbal´s case on Yates yesterday and I haven´t found him very scummy so far. What I find scummy was when Krak started to accuse Verbal for Yates´s lynch even before we got the coroners report. It´s like he knew that Yates would turn up town. 

 

Vote Krak

[Lenlo]

actually i just voted her for a reaction and get her to post more

Dude your flip floppin on your reasons for votin her.

 

vote hal

 

she's been too opportunistic with her voting and just sheeping along  

First its opportunistic sheeping

 

general actually, considering the other 2 threads are in night 

 

and also i dont her lurky play this game 

Then its her lurky play and now its because you wanted reactions? BS.

 

Vote Chuckles

[lolguy26]

your saying those 3 arent valid reasoning lenlo?

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

 

Peace (1/8): BG

Hallia (1/8): Chuckles

Krak (1/8): Tina

Chuckles (1/8): Lenlo

 

I don't set weekend deadlines for day usually.  Deadline will be sometime on Monday probably.

[Nolder]

Nice case BG.

What do you think of my ideas in post #627?

[lolguy26]

 

Day 2 Final Vote Count

 

Peace (1/11): Serra

 

Cloud (11/11): Yates, Dap, Razen, Tiink, Pralaya, Peace, Des, Tina, Verb, Lenlo, BG

 

Razen (1/11): Cloud

 

Not Voting (7/20): Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Nol, Crush, Krak, Ree

 

 

 

Scene might take a bit.  I got stuffs to write for T1 too.

Ok I started to do my reread and then realized I didn't need to work nearly has hard as I thought I did.

Cloud being a vengeful killer there is a high chance at least one of his teammates was on his train.

Obviously eliminate players we know are town. I'll eliminate Razen as well, benefit of the doubt and all that for simplicity's sake.

 

That leaves Yates, Player, Pralaya, Peace, Tina, Verbal, Lenlo, and BG

Next I'm going to see who out of those people are voting Razen since we're giving Razen the benefit of the doubt and that gives me...

 

Pralaya, Player, and Peace, and "Roschache"?

Note to mods, please don't use nicknames in votecounts in the future.

If anyone wants to tell me who Roschache is I'll go back and reexamine this case with that in mind.

 

Ok so of those three and mystery man I'm gonna go back and look at their votes on Cloud and see which one seems most like a partner setting his buddy up to blow a townie.

 

 

 

 

Quoted because Peace pulls out the early votes from both Leelou and Ishy on Cloud and casts them as early and bogus distancing. What I find interesting is now, Leelou and Ishy are both dead.  I don't know if that's coincidental or not, but I do find it interesting that he singled them out and that they're now both dead.

It would have to be coincidental that BOTH died - unless you think the scum can talk to the 2nd anti-Town party.

 

 

I would agree that it has to be coincidental that they both died.  What I'm getting at is the fact that Peace picked them out specifically in his post because they voted Cloud with no reason at the time and cast it as a distancing maneuver.  Suddenly, they're dead.  I meant it more along the lines of is it coincidental that Peace mentioned them both in his post, calling them out for unexplained votes on Cloud and now they're dead?  Or is that the exact reason that they ended up dead?

 

 

 

To me it looks like a frame up of me.  If Cloud is scum and people believed my opinion of early distancing then his team may hope that Leelou flipping town would show my case invalid and therefore make him look less suspicious.  If he was worried that he would be lynched before Leelou he would want her dead.

 

VOTE CLOUD

 

 

 

Ishy and Leelou both play on JN as well though

 

But I like the idea of a cloud train

vote cloud

 

 

I have a different take on this case.

 

It could be that Leelou was hunted in the night because she was one of the first to be on Cloud. However, she was not the most vocal. One of the earliest quote was

 

 

 

 

Vote Yates

 

For self voting. Ugh.

  

Vote Csarmi

 

Let's just run him up and see what comes out of it.

Vote Csarmi

 

He must be scum in at least one of them or he wouldn't use the same strategy three times, heh.

Leelou I was wrong

This is where cloud is mafia. Csarmi and cloud are both mafia in this thread IMO

Bag 'em and tag 'em

 

(For kinda evidence. Look at the clod votes. This is the only thread he attempts to vote elsewhere and he is trying to be as nonchalant as possible in this thread)

 

vote salami

 

Also isnt it amazing that cloud went from thread to thread at the same time, making sure to read them all equally rather than concentrating on a specific thread at a time. Trying to have a nice even meta

Wait...

Didnt he accuse Csarmi of that and dub him mafia over it? I think he did lol

 

 

After that Dap has been most vocal against Cloud even while the Csarmi bandwagon was going on. 

For example,

 

 

This is game 2 right?

Cloud has been pretty scummy in this thread. He is one of my top pics

 

I even quoted him and explaind in my first post. How do you not see clouds scummy?

 

If Cloud was mafia, wouldn't the first person to target be Dap? 

And, guess who was one of the first on the Cloud train on Day 2?

 

 

 

Ishy and Leelou both play on JN as well though

 

But I like the idea of a cloud train

vote cloud

 

 

 

 

Me?

 

I've been saying for ages that I thought cloud was mafia on this thread

(This is T2 right?)

 

I would still give a benefit of doubt to Dap since both him and Leelou were on to Cloud at the beginning and they chose Leelou over Dap to kill.

 

Which brings to two possibilities,

 

1. Cloud is mafia: Dap was right all along

2. Cloud is not mafia: In this case, the first target on Day 3 would be Dap

 

I would, for now, go with my intuition that I had presented long back

 

 

 

I think dap and Leelou have a valid point. Even a newbie like me can see that Yates self-vote was a joke and was just the first day fun. Converting that to a serious post and voting based on it does look scummy to me.

 

 

vote Cloud

 

Of these three none seem squeeky clean to me. Pralaya seems to be setting up lynches but the way Cloud responds to him makes me think he's probably not the guy. Peace says "well let's just lynch Cloud anyway and see what happens" which feels like nudging based on nothing. But Peace was making a case that the people who appeared to be distancing from Cloud (ie voting him) were turning up dead and that's what makes Cloud scum. Considering Cloud's role it's obvious he'd want people to vote him eventually and wouldn't kill suspicious people. I think anyway. If Peace was his teammate I don't think he'd be perusing this line of thought regardless but trying to cast more suspicion on people based on how Cloud flips. So that leaves me with Player and I'm gonna say as of this moment he's my top pick. I'm not saying he's scum at all so don't get that twisted, it took me a lot of jumps and leaps of assumptions and what if's to get where I am. I am just saying he's Person of Interest #1 for me right now and I think that's who I'm going to be keeping a special eye on whenever I get around to doing a full reread. Before that though I'd like to see some reactions to my thoughts and I want to figure out who mystery man is since he might be an even better suspect than Player.

 

 

is this the post you were talking about nol ?

[Verbal32]

Yes BG..i was making a statement about Hallia propensity in all three threads to swoop in and sheep vote without any real game play.

 

Good case and I can see some of that perspective when it comes to cloud.  But remember that was early day one and no one but scum would have solid reads.  I was prodding and poking and stating my thoughts at that time of the game. 

 

 

Anyway, I'll be back on Monday...going fishing in a couple hours.

 

A very good point and something we need to keep in mind when we remember how people acted at that time.

 

 

 

I have a couple quick thoughts.  Verbal is a bit touchy feely kinda like the Nolder game where he was scum.  I picked up on that early that game and they killed me for it.  He may be pulling a reverse to fix his meta but seems scummy in his delivery.

 

Also, getting major scum gut feeling from Serra...but had that in the other thread too.  Could be some OMGUS cause he basically picked 2 threads early on to mention me as scum in about every big post.  Don't know if this a meta establishment over two threads or not.  One being town, one being scum.  I can see risking a town thread to establish a scum thread...if that makes sense.

 

Back to packing.

 

Yes, you did.  You are a good scumhunter, so I'll NK you to shut you up.  The fact you're still alive should be enough for you, lol.

 

Also, I don't tweak my meta....ever.  It just is.  If I start losing all my game, then I might consider a style change.  Until then, "if it ain't broke, don't fit it".   ;-)

 

 

 

 

actually i just voted her for a reaction and get her to post more

Fair enough then.

 

No, not really.  FOS both you guys for this exchange:  Chuckles for the poor reasoning for a D4 vote, and BG for accepting the reason - as if this exchange was scripted.

[Verbal32]

I liked Verbal´s case on Yates yesterday and I haven´t found him very scummy so far. What I find scummy was when Krak started to accuse Verbal for Yates´s lynch even before we got the coroners report. It´s like he knew that Yates would turn up town. 

 

Vote Krak

 

Agreed - he did do that.  I need to re-read him and case him, as I said I would.  That'll be my task this weekend....

[bgrishinko]

Eh... I'm not letting chuckles off the hook on that. I'm still suspicious of him over it, but there wasn't much more to push. Still flimsy reasoning for a vote I think, but Peace is more on my mind right now.

[Nolder]

Yes that is the post.

Feel free to weigh in on it. I asked BG because he's casing Peace but I'd be interested to hear what anyone thinks of it.

[Razen]

 

actually i just voted her for a reaction and get her to post more

Dude your flip floppin on your reasons for votin her.

 

vote hal

 

she's been too opportunistic with her voting and just sheeping along  

First its opportunistic sheeping

 

general actually, considering the other 2 threads are in night 

 

and also i dont her lurky play this game 

Then its her lurky play and now its because you wanted reactions? BS.

 

Vote Chuckles

 

 

That's a pretty weak vote, there Lenlo.  You appear awfully eager to hop all over Chuckles for his vote on Hallia.  I'm getting the impression you think you can score town cred by pouncing on Chuckles' reason for voting.  Not buying it at all.

 

Take a look at his voting history.  I purpled Lenlo because I was interested in his pattern on the final trains, but I also colored all the known flips and added myself on there as well.

 

Day 1.  No final vote.

Official Vote Count FINAL VC:

 

Yates (1/12): Krak

Cloud (1/12): Ishy

Salami (12/12): Nol, Cloud, Yates, Verb, Leelou, Chuckles, Razen, Dap, Laya, Serra, BG, Des

Dap (1/12): Crush

BG (1/12): Salami

 

Not Voting (7/23):

Mishh, Hally, Lenlo, Peace, Tiink, Tina, Ree

 

SCENE INCOMING

 

Day 2:

 

Day 2 Final Vote Count

 

Peace (1/11): Serra

 

Cloud (11/11): Yates, Dap, Razen, Tiink, Pralaya, Peace, Des, Tina, Verb, Lenlo, BG

 

Razen (1/11): Cloud

 

Not Voting (7/20): Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Nol, Crush, Krak, Ree

 

Well heres my thoughts. I can see where your coming from Yates, with thinking him an SK, but my problem with this is if he was an SK why would he come out and fess up to shooting Ishy the jailkeeper right when day started and we had no idea who did it? I think he was just being a foolish towny who hoped to get lucky with a gun and missed the mark.

 

I dont like the arguement about what Des would do if he was or was not mafia between him and Mish, along with her faulty reasoning for finding Yates scummy so she has jumped up on my list from that.

 

Razen... I think hes reaching with afew of his points, but I do agree that Cloud is the best ((And at this point probably only)) lynch we can do today.

 

Vote Cloud

 

Votes Cloud.  Bandwagons off the case I made against Cloud, tries to discredit it somewhat, but says that Cloud's probably the only lynch we could do.  That's an interesting line, in the wake of what Cloud ended up flipping.

 

Day 3:

 

First votes me.  Blatantly bandwagons Mish's case and offers up nothing original.  Tries to paint the lurky agreeable brush on Hallia.  Which is funny, because that's exactly what it looks like he's doing, imo.  He's being agreeable and toeing the line others have set up for the most part.

 

Wow. Best case ive seen so far in these threads and it looks good to me.

 

Vote Razen

 

Someone that bugs me: Hallia. In almost every thread she looks like shes just skating by and posting agreeable comments, nothing to risky nothing that might get questioned or get her looked at.

 

Then he unvotes.

 

unvote

 

Back from the weekend and catching up now in all 3 threads. Just got to the doc claim.

 

Puts Yates at L-1 because he doesn't believe the Watcher claim.

 

Yeaaaah... Watcher is way to easy to claim. Im not buying it.

 

Vote Yates

 

Final vote count for Day 3:

 

Day 3 Final Vote Count:

 

peacesells (5/9): Yates., Pralaya, Misheru Sedai, Razen, Hallia

Yates. (9/9): Verbal32, bgrishinko, serra, lolguy26, dapianoplay3r, TinaHel, peacesells, Lenlo, Nolder

 

 

Not Voting (2/16):

Krakalakachkn, Mr. Ree

 

Again...he's in the spot right before the hammer.  I'm not liking that voting behavior, saving it for the end.  Couple that with the fact that he's generally toeing the line other people have set and is being very reserved about his reasons for voting is sticking out to me.

 

But, I look back, and I noticed that Lenlo and Peace have the exact same voting pattern - no votes day 1, both on Cloud day 2, both on Yates day 3.  I admit, it's a stretch, but it's something that I want to poke into.

[Razen]

That leads me to what I wanted to address about the post that Nolder wanted comments on.  After I looked back on the voting patterns and flips, I still have my doubts about Dap, but Peace shot up right to the top of my scum list.

 

Going off of what BG said:

 Okay, so I went back and re-read Peace.
 
Day 1: Very against Leelou and Cloud. Continually tries to tie Leelou to Cloud as much as possible. Remarks multiple times they are probably a scum team. Seems Peace has taken for granted that Cloud is scum already. Odd note: He never votes.

 

The never voting part is what stuck out to me too.  Especially because he said this to Dap on Day 1 when he asked why Peace doesn't see Cloud as scummy:

 

 

 

This is game 2 right?
Cloud has been pretty scummy in this thread. He is one of my top pics

I even quoted him and explaind in my first post. How do you not see clouds scummy?

 

A couple of things wrong with your statements here.  First...All those quotes I made came long before your first post in this thread.

 

Second...If Leelou is distancing from Cloud that makes him scum right?

 

He puts out there that if Leelou is trying to distance from Cloud, it makes Cloud scum.  Which...if he was so certain Cloud was scum, don't you think he'd have voted Cloud?  I find it odd he was pushing this angle and not putting his vote there as well.  Makes me believe he wasn't being genuine.  Which would fit perfectly with Cloud's flipping as a VK - the scum team wouldn't want him gone until they found a power role to take out with him.

 

 

 

 

Quoted because Peace pulls out the early votes from both Leelou and Ishy on Cloud and casts them as early and bogus distancing. What I find interesting is now, Leelou and Ishy are both dead.  I don't know if that's coincidental or not, but I do find it interesting that he singled them out and that they're now both dead.

It would have to be coincidental that BOTH died - unless you think the scum can talk to the 2nd anti-Town party.

 

 

I would agree that it has to be coincidental that they both died.  What I'm getting at is the fact that Peace picked them out specifically in his post because they voted Cloud with no reason at the time and cast it as a distancing maneuver.  Suddenly, they're dead.  I meant it more along the lines of is it coincidental that Peace mentioned them both in his post, calling them out for unexplained votes on Cloud and now they're dead?  Or is that the exact reason that they ended up dead?

 

 

 

To me it looks like a frame up of me.  If Cloud is scum and people believed my opinion of early distancing then his team may hope that Leelou flipping town would show my case invalid and therefore make him look less suspicious.  If he was worried that he would be lynched before Leelou he would want her dead.

 

VOTE CLOUD

 

 

Then he points out the kill on Leelou as a frame job on him.  Again, he was pretty vocal about believing that Cloud was scum on day 1, yet didn't vote.  If he knew that Cloud was scum all along, this looks like the perfect way to bus.  He brings up the fact that the scum tried to frame him by killing Leelou (thus implying that he's obviously town) and points out that makes Cloud look less suspicious because of the frame up.  Casts blame for the kill on Cloud (setting him up nicely to get lynched, btw) and gains town cred out of it.

 

I think these two posts together add up to Peace waiting until the right moment to get his scummate lynched.  So I'll put my vote right back where it was yesterday.  Vote: Peace.  That doesn't mean that Lenlo should be off the hook though.  I still think it's odd that they share the same voting pattern.  But I'll leave that for later.

[Lenlo]

your saying those 3 arent valid reasoning lenlo?

Individually they are fine. The fact that you used all 3 one after the other screams of you trying to come up with a reason to justify a crappy vote.

[michellem]

BG's and Razen's thoughts, plus this:
 

 

Peace, Yates already posted his results.
 
Only reason I'm voting you is because nobody has been willing to follow me on Hallia, and I really, really don't want a Darthe random.

 
Wait..haven't you been arguing I'm town?  Wow.

 

I didn't bother going much into it at the time; my brother had just come over and we were making dinner. But that post pinged me big time. If he was town; why be so indignant that I voted him? He's played Darthe games before; he knows how the random goes. If he was town, and not a PR (if he was, I'd expected him to have claimed by then), he shouldn't mind going down instead of it going random. So the indignation in that post, plus how the train suddenly piled onto Yates instead... Completly reversed my view on him.

 

Vote Peace

[michellem]

Also, Chuckles' vote on Hallia stinks to high heaven.

[dapianoplay3r]

I like BGs case on Peace

It makes a lot of sense and I think that's a good way to go (ill be back soon to do the VC analysis and stuff here)

 

Raz, that case you just posted. It feels like you were just piggy backing on BG. I dunno, it was good and all but it feels like you were suddenly jumping up to be included with this case

Makes me nervous

 

vote peace

[bgrishinko]

@Nolder I'll check out your post tomorrow. DATE NIGHT!

[Hallia]

I agree Mish, his vote was opportunistic, and also, really? You're going to call someone out about posting?  I do like that backpedal though.  It's got style  I'd vote him for his play, but wouldn't wanna get accused of omgsus'in'

[Hallia]

Going back and really looking, Peace looks pretty bad.  He initially pushed pretty hard for the Cloud lynch, and with him being vengeful and taking someone out, I feel that it could've easy been a set up.  He then hopped around on some trains with little to no reasoning.

 

Very solid case built on Razen.  I'll agree with a vote.

 

VOTE RAZEN.

 

 

UNVOTE VOTE YATES

 

I still haven't seen much of anything from him, and for now that's where I'll vote.

 

Vote Peace

[michellem]

I agree Mish, his vote was opportunistic, and also, really? You're going to call someone out about posting?  I do like that backpedal though.  It's got style  I'd vote him for his play, but wouldn't wanna get accused of omgsus'in'

Bolded: Uhm, what?

 

It's not a backpedal; it's a change of view. That post I quoted + the sudden shift to Yates' train made me seriously doubt his townie-ness (see reasons why in above post in case you missed them first time; you have a tendency of that in this game).

[Niniel]

I still don´t think Peace is mafia. The case sounds all backwards. First, I don´t think mafia wanted to kill Cloud that early. As someone said, it would be better to wait until you have a doc/cop claim. So I doubt Peace killed Leelou and went after his own mafia buddy right away just to get town cred. Wouldn´t it be better to save Leelou and connect her again with Cloud when he was lynched? 

 

After Bg made that case a lot of people just choose to sheep. And I do think Mish´s vote is strange since she defended Peace before. Okay, if she wanted to avoid a random with voting someone she thinks is town, that might be a good reason. But now she has gone from definitely not mafia to have to vote him to avoid a random lynch to voting him for being mafia. Big FOS!

[Darthe]

Andromeda was so tired.  She woke tired every day.  She lay in bed, drained and depressed, unable to bring herself to rise and move about, to be active.  Her thoughts were sluggish, here world colorless, unable even to produce tears anymore in the depths of her despair.  Thus she lay in her bed and waited to be brought food each day by her keeper, and she went to bed tired and she woke tired and the cycle continued.  

 

The day He came it all changed.  Andromeda woke in the night, so odd.  She felt gooseflesh running up her arms and legs, through the warmth of her blankets even she felt an alien cold.  She couldn't make herself care but this warranted attention.  With all of her might Andromeda pushed herself up, an accomplishment of it's own.  

 

At the foot of her bed stood Death.  

 

He was not a reaper, all robes, wings and scythe.  Nor was He an angel, a golden beauty come for her.  He simply was a man.

 

But He was Death nonetheless.  That she knew as certainly as she had ever known anything.  Since her husband had passed she had felt nothing but sorrow.  Emptiness.  Death raised a hand out to her, palm upturned.  She felt calm wash through her, relief of her burden.  Death leaned forward and she came forth to meet him.  Her spirit left her body.  Hand in hand they walked out of the room.  

 

There stood her husband.  He smiled at her.  It was bliss.

 

Mr. Ree - Andromeda Connery has been peacefully modkilled.  

 

My sincere apologies to all of you for not doing this sooner or finding a replacement.  I am truly sorry that it makes the game more difficult for you.

 

Day continues.

[Hallia]

 

I agree Mish, his vote was opportunistic, and also, really? You're going to call someone out about posting?  I do like that backpedal though.  It's got style  I'd vote him for his play, but wouldn't wanna get accused of omgsus'in'

Bolded: Uhm, what?

 

It's not a backpedal; it's a change of view. That post I quoted + the sudden shift to Yates' train made me seriously doubt his townie-ness (see reasons why in above post in case you missed them first time; you have a tendency of that in this game).

 

 

That part wasn't to you, only the first part about agreeing with you was.  

[lolguy26]

Going back and really looking, Peace looks pretty bad.  He initially pushed pretty hard for the Cloud lynch, and with him being vengeful and taking someone out, I feel that it could've easy been a set up.  He then hopped around on some trains with little to no reasoning.

 

Very solid case built on Razen.  I'll agree with a vote.

 

VOTE RAZEN.

 

 

UNVOTE VOTE YATES

 

I still haven't seen much of anything from him, and for now that's where I'll vote.

 

Vote Peace

 

your reasoning is basically a mix of BG and razen's case