Lord of the Rings Mafia [Advanced Mafia] Town Wins!!!!

[hazelkrs1]

Despo  you got your paraphrasing of me wrong  I said that to darthe when he was advocating lynching someone. It was meant as a kinda get confirmation of how serious he is and threaten him with "youre next" at the same time. Ive tried to explain this post a couple of times and i still sound like an idiot. I know what i meant but i dont seem to explain it well.

 

As for miller, I could see keeping them around a couple of days if they claimed early. They still provide info whether it be their thoughts or their interaction anmd if they are claimed the cop can leave them alone for a day or 2. However Darthe didnt seem to be going to be helpful at all.

 

Dap mentioned about thinking that Darthe may have held a helpful role. After reading the scene im thinking that we may indeed have lost something. The whole "I would of served you" bit makes me think he could have been used. But its too late now.

The threatening "you're next" part is the part that looks so bad. Townies can be wrong, no reason to hold a lynch over their head if they end up being wrong about someone. You can be more suspicious, yes, but threatening to lynch is def too much and looks like setting up future lynches. And no offense, but yeah you're still not exactly explaining that comment that well. But then again, I was never really satisfied with Talya's explanation about the "mafia amongst all involved" comment, yet now I'm pretty sure I was wrong about her.

 

As for the miller thing, Because Rand listed all the extra stuff with Tiink's role (Symp with 1 shot recruit and GF %), I think he would have also told us if Darthe had any other helpful part of his role. I think he was a miller, plain and simple.

 

I hope your daughter ends up okay man. Thoughts and prayers go out to you. 

 

I think killing Basel was a REALLY stupid move for the mafia. There has been so much back and forth with the whole "joke vote" thing that it was keeping everyone pretty occupied.

 

Since Darthe is gone, we have the two major distractions out of the way....so I'm wondering how experienced these guys are?

 

This post bothered me a bit, not sure if it's a big thing or not tho. I actually agree that offing Basel was a bad move for them, but that last bit seems like an appeal to try and manipulate us into going after inexperienced players.

 

Despo

 

 

Question about this role...what is the point of having a towny that shows up as scum if viewed

I think of it as "anti utility" or a handicap.

I use it to power DOWN the town instead of power them up.

So if you think of it in terms of numbers, where townies are 1's, power roles like doc and cop are 2's, a miller would be a -1.

You want to use them when you want to give mafia a small advantage but giving them a symp or power would be too much. Instead of giving them a hand you give the town a kick.

Get it?

 

So following that, if you clear a miller they become vanilla so go from a -1 to a 1. That's an increase of 2 points in the towns favour (not as much as a PR IMO, they should be worth 3, but an increase)

 

Now if you let a miller sit, you gain info if they are lying, if they are telling the truth you gain 2 points.

As for outing a PR. there is no need. Let them sit. The PR can check them and keep it to themselves, then when they have more important reSults they reveal as normal. That way you gain a cleared miller, several cleared normal town or one or two mafia.

 

So for that reason I think keep them arnd once claimed so early.

 

Now if you want to discuss this with me follow Nols quote back got the miller discussion thread. It's clogging up the game here and it's not really needed

 

 

First of all, a vanilla isn't a +1 in Nolder's example. They'd be a zero. Second, to "clear" a miller you'd have to out a PR, which would be a huge negative for town, so I see no way at ALL that a miller can be turned from a "-1" to a "+1". The part about getting 2 points is just completely absurd. If the claimed miller is a miller after all, why would they lie, and how would knowing that theyre a lying miller help town?

 

As for a PR confirming them but not revealing, why waste a viewing on someone who, if they're telling the truth, has a negative role for town? Losing a miller is better than losing a vanilla, assuming a PR didn't out themselves to lynch the miller. And what if people continued to mistrust the claimed miller? Obv the mafia team wouldn't kill them, so the town would grow more and more restless every day that they didn't die, knowing that they could have been a scum making a lazy play. Eventually a lynch might have run up anyways, and, best case scenario, the PR still doesn't say anything, and the miller is lynched anyways but served as a distraction for too long. Worst case scenario is that the PR tries to defend the claimed miller without outing themselves, but the mafia team figure it out anyways and NK's them. Or, a vig thinks that the person defending the claimed miller may be a teammate, and NK's them.

 

Look, no matter how you slice it, keeping around a claimed miller is NO GOOD FOR TOWN. PERIOD.

 

And btw I didn't take this matter to the other thread per your request because I feel this matter is relevant to this game. I think you're scum that wanted to keep a miller around to confuse and distract town longer. Why should I take a relevant game matter to another thread?

 

Good point about the miller dap. Makes sense.

 

What do you think of EP? And Kronos also?

What?! Turin, I am disappoint. You're too good of a mafia player to think that Dap made a good point about millers. Thinking a cleared miller is = to 1, when vanillas are 0 and PR's are 1? Thinking they turn into a +2 if they get caught in lies?!?!?!

 

Explain to me how Dap's point about millers makes sense. I don't think you can, cause it doesn't. Might as well keep a claimed SK in the game

[hazelkrs1]

Since I have posted a few big posts lately and some might be skimming them or something, I shall summarize:

 

Cloud's hammer wasn't scummy at all, and in my book clears him since a mafioso would've been too wary of a bomb and his teammates would've instructed him not to hammer. Also, Darthe really didn't seem to have anything else to offer.

 

Just because Darthe and Basel have been proven town, doesn't mean town should blindly follow their leads on players still in the game. They had no more information than the rest of us, so even tho we can deduce that their reads were real reads most likely and not intentional distractions, that still doesn't mean those reads will get us any closer to finding scum. Analyzing reads of a confirmed scum is much more useful, unfortunately we don't know if Tiink knew who his teammates were or not.

 

Dap had already showed up on my scumdar, but his desire to keep a claimed miller in the game (scummy move), along with his obvious pushing of the "bad Cloud hammer" angle make him appear to be scum in my book. I urge other townies to join me in putting some pressure on him.

 

Updated scum list:

 

Dap, Dice, RTE, Nya

 

Wary of:

 

Turin, AH, EP, Tigs

 

Town reads:

 

Talya, Cloud, Tina (for catching the Treebeard thing but not making a bigger deal of it)

[dapianoplay3r]

I'm sick if discussing this.

I think it's possible to keep a miller around and they be useful to the town. Ill talk about it on the other thread (which is worth talking about cos is an issue that extends beyond the game and ill almost certainly advocate keeping a miller around in other games)

 

And vanilla town are not zero. They count in the towns favour

[hazelkrs1]

Actually you're right, I didn't read Nolder's post carefully enough. He lists reg townies as 1 and PR's as 2. I was more thinking of the balance system that Darthe made a thread for a while back, in that one PR's were worth one point. So clearing a miller could turn them into a 1 I guess, but that's still just the same as a reg vanilla and you'd have to risk a PR just to do so. What if the claimed miller had a role which killed whoever targeted them, or the mafia team had a scout or tracker type role so could see who targeted them.

 

Altogether its just a bad idea mate, and if you ever suggest the same course of action in the future I'd tell you you were wrong then as well.

 

Darthe said it several times himself, if a miller claims early the only real course of action is to lynch them. Keeping them around only risks town PR's and distracts the town from scumhunting

[hazelkrs1]

And I can talk about there too, but as I said before I think this matter is relevant to the game at hand, and I think you pushing to keep Darthe in the game was scummy, so I will continue to mention it if I feel it helps convince others of your scumminess. Don't try and get me to remove part of my case on you just because there's a meta discussion of the topic somewhere else.

[peacesells]

As long as you think it's relevant..keep the discussion here. 

 

Although I don't see the point of your two going round and round on this dead subject.

 

Arguing the merits of a Miller claiming day one is unhelpful to town.  Creates large blocks of easy to skim text.

 

Arguing why someone was arguing for a Miller to stay alive does have merit.  Hopefully the two you can keep it to that aspect of the subject.  

[dicetosser1]

yeah I know i didnt explain it well despo. 

 

I for one missed any and all treebeard hints.

[dicetosser1]

oh and des   thanks for the thoughts bro  shes been sick for a while now but she has good days.  Poor kids got mid years on atm too

[The Bard Babe]

Hiya everyone!!

 

Replacing in...will re-read, but someone wanna gimme a summary?

[dicetosser1]

Darthe was a miller. He was lynched.

 

Basel and Tiink were killed. Tiink was a symp with a recruit shot and GF potential

 

summary concluded

[Niniel]

Hope she gets better, Dice!

 

I realise that I won´t get time to re-read the Basel-Cloud thing until tomorrow. 

 

I´m most interested in hearing AH´s analysis now that Basel is dead. Early she said that a Basel lynch would give information of Cloud, Turin, Talya and me. What information have you got for us?

[Panchi]

I am sorry if my thoughts came out jumbled or snappish. Electricity has been gone since morning and at this time, not even a fan is working and temperature is I think around 40+ with increased humidity due to yesterday's rain.

 

Despo and Player jump out to me. They have been a bit aggressive and on opposite ends to each other. This could be a ploy so if one of them is mafia then other wouldn't look suspicious or they both simply disagree with each other.

 

One thing about Despo what looked a bit strange(I think it is Despo but I could have easily mistaken). Day 1 despo was really against lynching Darthe but sometime ago he said that miller should have been lynched.

[Gabriel Kross]

Going to be busy today plan is to move all my stuff from storage to the place I'm living now

[Turin Turambar]

Good morning everyone.

 

I have been waiting for more people to come out and place their opinions about what has happened during the night and to give the thoughts they announced they would give once day started. It has been nearly 20 hours since day started and unfortunately we have yet to hear from AH, nya Kronos or RTE who are at present 4 out of 5 of my top choices for mafia. I have been focused more on those people. Primarily my top 3 from about halfway into day one. Those being RTE, Kronos and EP. Cloud kept saying things that bothered me but my intent for most of the day was to stay with cloud and ask questions of the people that sparked my interest. I asked things of Kronos, of AH, of RTE, and EP. Nya was left for later. With the final intention of letting darthe be lynched.

 

Despo, I think you answered your own question about the miller thing. If there is a role that can vet and it doesn't directly out that player. Why not try to confirm a townie. As for your argument about bomblike powers. That would be wild speculation IMO.

 

Anyway back to darthe and his reads. I know that one was correct cause I am town. I know that one was incorrect cause Panchi is town. And I thought it odd that 3 of my highest suspects were all listed as null. Hence my earlier post regarding Darthe being confirmed town not confirmed correct. Kronos was one that was all for getting behind Darthe's reads. Then Tiink called out the same three in his post but gave a sort of wishy washy reason after EP questioned him.

 

My current suspect list in order is:

EP

Kronos

RTE

AH

Nya

 

I am a mason. Panchi is my partner. I had a 1x cop view. I used it on EP. The result was NOT TOWN.

 

unvote. Vote EP

[peacesells]

VOTE EP.

[Hallia]

Oh snap, good job!

 

Vote EP

[bgrishinko]

 

 

VOTE EP.

[RandA lThor]

Sorry guys, no time for VC, I have to go, VC in about 6 hours

[hazelkrs1]

I am sorry if my thoughts came out jumbled or snappish. Electricity has been gone since morning and at this time, not even a fan is working and temperature is I think around 40+ with increased humidity due to yesterday's rain.

 

Despo and Player jump out to me. They have been a bit aggressive and on opposite ends to each other. This could be a ploy so if one of them is mafia then other wouldn't look suspicious or they both simply disagree with each other.

 

One thing about Despo what looked a bit strange(I think it is Despo but I could have easily mistaken). Day 1 despo was really against lynching Darthe but sometime ago he said that miller should have been lynched.

I said it quite clearly back then, but to make it clear: I was against a speedlynch on Darthe Day 1, as I felt it would hinder town's chances of collecting information. Darthe kept popping in to try and rush and get himself speedlynched, when there was still plenty of time to  pressure more people, and I found it a bit irritating. I figured we could either save Darthe's lynch for the end of day 1, or day 2 at the latest, but in the meantime we could see if we found any other good leads.

 

But the fact is, I think the only course of action when someone claims miller is to lynch them, just to be sure and because it removes a possible pitfall.

 

Btw, and this is pretty much just a formality since I don't think Turin would say it if it isn't true, can you confirm being masons with Turin?

 

Good morning everyone.

 

I have been waiting for more people to come out and place their opinions about what has happened during the night and to give the thoughts they announced they would give once day started. It has been nearly 20 hours since day started and unfortunately we have yet to hear from AH, nya Kronos or RTE who are at present 4 out of 5 of my top choices for mafia. I have been focused more on those people. Primarily my top 3 from about halfway into day one. Those being RTE, Kronos and EP. Cloud kept saying things that bothered me but my intent for most of the day was to stay with cloud and ask questions of the people that sparked my interest. I asked things of Kronos, of AH, of RTE, and EP. Nya was left for later. With the final intention of letting darthe be lynched.

 

Despo, I think you answered your own question about the miller thing. If there is a role that can vet and it doesn't directly out that player. Why not try to confirm a townie. As for your argument about bomblike powers. That would be wild speculation IMO.

 

Anyway back to darthe and his reads. I know that one was correct cause I am town. I know that one was incorrect cause Panchi is town. And I thought it odd that 3 of my highest suspects were all listed as null. Hence my earlier post regarding Darthe being confirmed town not confirmed correct. Kronos was one that was all for getting behind Darthe's reads. Then Tiink called out the same three in his post but gave a sort of wishy washy reason after EP questioned him.

 

My current suspect list in order is:

EP

Kronos

RTE

AH

Nya

 

I am a mason. Panchi is my partner. I had a 1x cop view. I used it on EP. The result was NOT TOWN.

 

unvote. Vote EP

 

 

Unvote, Vote EP

 

Re: the miller thing- yeah bomblike powers are a slight stretch, but a Tracker, Watcher, or similar role wouldn't be, especially considering Peace said there is a role cop in the game. I'd bet with the sound of all these claims and abilities coming out (even night vig, GF recruiter symp, % vig thingy, and now masons with a cop view, which we can soon test), the mafia team prob has several diff ways of locating or neutralizing town PR's. So once again, it could still endanger our PR's, leaving a miller alive.

[hazelkrs1]

Hmm, so I wonder if the self-vote/implied VC thing was just a ploy. Anyhoo my unofficial vote count puts him at L-5

[peacesells]

Hmm, so I wonder if the self-vote/implied VC thing was just a ploy. Anyhoo my unofficial vote count puts him at L-5

I've seen it done.  It's like faking a post restriction.  And I did consider it when he did it initially and reminded everyone of it later.  Back of my mind type thoughts.

[Panchi]

Thanks for clarifying. I was a bit confused if it was speedlynch in particular or claim.

 

Yes, I am mason with Turin.

 

vote EP

[WolfbrotherKronos]

I have only time to check in sporadically today.  I'm doing a full reread when I get home.

[peacesells]

I have only time to check in sporadically today.  I'm doing a full reread when I get home.

 

all you have to do is vote EP.

[Turin Turambar]

Lol @Peace

 

Where are rest of the players?

 

Oh and welcome to the game BB