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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Prologue Through to the End of Chapter 20


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Please you gotta be kidding me...

 

Chapter 20

 

Why don't the Aes Sedai mask their ability and reserve their weaves? Surely Egwene must have taught them the single most important tactical weaves vs other channelers.

 

Hiding next to a cart without masking her ability? Is that a joke right? Surely the Sharans wouldn't have a couple of channelers looking for women in hiding.

To do that, she would have to embrace the source first. Which would have given her away.

 

 

 

Sure, I've read that pitiful excuse of an explaining phrase myself.

 

She had no business not using it at the first place. They knew they could face dreadlords at any moment.

But even so, when she saw the gateway, her first instinct should have been to mask, or gateway out, not to drop the power.

 

What about the Sharans not finding an unmasked channeler in the middle of the camp?

They had no way of knowing they'd be facing such an overwhelming army of Dreadlords. No such army existed, till the Sharan's entered the field.

 

When Egwene saw the Gateway, her first instinct was to rightly drop the OP. You actively channel, and you draw destruction down on you. A very stupid idea.

 

As for the Sharans: its hardly easy to go around questing for women who can channel when those women are not holding the OP. Remember Galina and Calvere not noticing a hidden Egwene in LoC? 

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Really liking the book so far, first time I was taken out of it was Rand/Mats interaction where they tried to one-up each other.  It read rather awkwardly. 

 

Yep very out of character. Similar to Mat's letter to Elayne in TGS. BS tries too hard with Mat's humor.

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The Rand/Mat one up conversation was just full on cringe. Absolutely terrible, almost expected them to start bragging about how many women they had slept with.

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The Rand/Mat one up conversation was just full on cringe. Absolutely terrible, almost expected them to start bragging about how many women they had slept with.

 

 

I felt it was out of character, but I didn't feel it was THAT bad. It felt more out-of -character for Rand then for Mat but it was far from the cringe-worthy moments of Mat in tGS. His writing of Mat has improved. I give him credit for that.

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The Rand/Mat one up conversation was just full on cringe. Absolutely terrible, almost expected them to start bragging about how many women they had slept with.

 

100% agreed.  That whole scene just completely turned me off.  The writing was just painful - super rushed but still chock full of this relentless awful comedy.  I just finished chapter 20, and so far I'm really sad to say that I've hated every minute of Mat in this book.  He used to be one of my favorites, so I really hope he gets better. 

 

Also, I'm waiting to see what the plot implications will be, but I was personally really hoping the damane thing would turn out differently than Aviendha's vision.  I guess that's still on the table, especially with the Seanchan being sent in to help the Aes Sedai. 

 

Lot's of great moments so far though.   Egwene and Perrin have been the two who I've found most engaging so far.  I'm really excited to see Lanfear being Lanfear again. I'm hoping Nynaeve will get more attention soon.  The bit with the seals being stolen really threw me in a good way, and I'm happy to see that there are still some surprises in store given the high degree of foreshadowing. 

 

I'm going to switch over to the audiobook now, which will hopefully do even more to pull me into the story.  I always love Michael Kramer and Kate Reading's narration.

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*sighs*

 

Allright..picked up the book again...I made it from chapter 15 to the end of chapter 20.

I never-ever, for the life of me, would I have thought it would take me so much effort to read it. :madmyrddraal:

 

There are so many wierd sentences in the book up untill now. Nearly all the characters (and almost all the time) still have that cardboard puppet feel that I experienced up untill chapter 14.

They still act dumb and out of character, that sometimes I think I'm reading a bad, discarded Monty Python parody of WoT.

Also, some stuff happening is just downright wierd and makes me want to throw the book away again.

Short opinion per chapter...;

 

Chapter 15

- Mat pov: it's beyond stupid that he's there...it's beyond stupid what he's doing there and it read like a cardboard version of charly chaplin talking to Selucia, instead of Mat. Overall, bloody jucky.

- Rand pov; the start of the pov is a childrens book with too much explaining for my liking (again..). The meeting with Tam... yeah.. overall, I liked it. Their talk was ok, I think and their fight was nice. I very much like the last couple of lines of that pov about the weight of the lost hand. Those last few lines felt like I was reading RJ's words.

- Mat pov: ewwwww... Mat was badly written ("fellow" this.. "fellow" that) and Cardboard "an empress does not love" Tuon was ho-ri-ble. Even the Seanchan Deathguards behaviour was off... and the way that chapter progresses has the feel of watching a Thunderbirds episode again. Just when I got my hopes up after that Tam / Rand duel (wich was kinda silly in and by itself, given the circumstances, but well written, I thought), those hopes were stamped firmly into the ground again...

 

Chapter 16

- Loial pov: I still couldn't shake the feeling they -the Ogier- were just DUMPED into the story as an afterthought at that insanely silly chapter about the Dragon Peace. And this pov certainly didn't help at all....but reinforced that feeling. And... the first sentence made me want to claw my eyes out again. Loial always secretly wanted to be hasty... *rolls eyes*. I think I went for a cup of coffee right there and then. The rest about the unnatural silence of the trees..yeah.. I kinda liked that, especially in hindsight, but while reading it, I was still saddened by the fact that I keep feeling that I'm not reading anything even closely resembling WoT. Loial and the other Ogier 'chopping up' (yuck) Trollocs was too much simple, agressive hack and slash for my liking. RJ would have the Ogier actually sing their song while doing battle instead of just write Loial was singing about 'blood and death'. I didn't really like how Loial was portrayed and how they got into that fight right there and then, but I did like them being in action. That's something, I guess.

 

Galad pov: By now, I'm totally done with the expression 'Light'. I think I've read it about a hundred times in about 300 pages. ( I should go count some words, like "Light"..and "fellow"). Cardboard Whitecloak stereotype behaviour that just fills up space sums up this pov for me....amd again a missed opportunity to actually have the readers hear the Ogier song. Instead all we get is "bellowing their terrible song"....sums up the books up untill now basically;

Crudely telling us what is happening in one or two sentences tops, instead of having us experience what is happening. In frustratingly, simplistic ways that sometimes contain an odd placed 'eloquant' word.

 

Rand pov & Moiraine pov: Not good, not bad. No real moving text or any heartfelt emotion. More explaining for kids about the Wheel and balance, with Moiraine having her tea. Yes, ladies and gents, tea....warmed up and brought by the Dragon Reborn in person! I would never have thought Moiraine would leave Lan to his fight. Why didn't she honour his fight, by aiding Lan at the gap?! Such a shame how Moiraine was brought back and whatfor. To add insult to injury...our next pov is from... Lan!

 

Lan's pov: don't really recall, except that now Lan also calls Trollocs a weed, just like Loial did several times. I could understand Loial using that metaphor, but Lan...? *shrugs*

And Lan uses it to describe how Trollocs are being bred... like weeds. Say what? Noone breeds and grows weeds. That Taim shows up at the end and 'that he seemed angry at something', just had me shake my head. No roling ring of fire? No 50 Dreadlords that would make a fiery 'dome-like' wall that would trap some of the cavalry? Nope, just fling a few fire-balls, because that's enough to kill Reede! [bS]check! *crosses a name of the list*[/bS]

 

Chapter 17

Mat, Rand & Tuon meeting: I cringed all the way through it. Every sentence. The plot necessity just dripped of that scene. It felt like reading a bad, crude script. Not a story..and certainly not like WoT. All three main characters were off. "funny" Mat and "no-emotion-miss-Empress" Tuon were like reading the equivalent of long, sharp nails inching their way across a chalkboard.  :madmyrddraal:

The Damane "resolution"...Mat "vouching" for Rand (and how..like a bad car-salesman).

I put the book down many times and silently wept for RJ.

 

Chapter 18

*groans* Just when you think you've hit rock bottom... a Gawyn pov. In and by itself -even when written decently- an ordeal...for me anyway.

He just stands there being useless. Killing five whole Trollocs. Yay! Apparently he's to eager for it too, to realise a decent soldier needs to eat.

His thoughts about Rand -how all of a sudden he's all ok with him and how it was jealousy- felt like BS 'checking off' another story-line that had some potential. *check!*

 

-Rand pov: Rand needs to hear he doesn't need to fix the BT's storyarc. CHECK!!

Another story, that's been building up with a lot of tension for several books, marked off the list, by having Cadsuane tell Rand they handled it themselves. And all we got for it, were about 10 lines of text. Made me sad. Not just because of how it was written in this book, but because it felt like ANOTHER dud. Check!

 

-Lan: more silly tactics, daydreaming of a kingdom all of a sudden and more Trolloc talk. Oh look.. a nobody who likes men. Big whoop. *check!*

 

Chapter 19

-Elayne pov: more Trolloc-talk!

 

-Egwene: finally! A T'a'r pov again! No hack and slash. No Trollocs. It starts nice. But about halfway through the pov, I had to put the book down again when Amys apparently IS talking about Balefire (the Memory of Light line about warning allies). I never ever would have thought to read this. How cold BS forget that Amys and all the Aiel present already knew about the dangers of balefire...??!? He even wrote it himself in TGS, in the aftermath of 'A Force of Light'. Nyn -with Min present- tells Cads and all those Aiel Dreamers exactly what happened @ Natrin's Barrow!! How could they not already know how dangerous Balefire is, when Nyn explained what happened to Cadsuane with the Aiel Wise Ones present? How could Amys not know the Aes Sedai not knew with Cads there to hear...?

It didn't make much sense to me.

Then again, given my opinion up untill now of how bad AMoL is, it does make sense... but I don't like it one bit.

*sad face*

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Just a quick note - the Cadsuane scene with her saying she wishes Rand would have given her a hint as to what he planned with the Black Tower was Brandons way of announcing to the readers that RJ didn't leave any notes or ideas for the Black Tower.  At least I'm pretty sure thats what it is...if it's not then it's a ridiculous scene with no point.

 

Otherwise, I agree with almost everything you've said, Mik.  Book does have some high points though so keep reading.

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Please you gotta be kidding me...

 

Chapter 20

 

Why don't the Aes Sedai mask their ability and reserve their weaves? Surely Egwene must have taught them the single most important tactical weaves vs other channelers.

 

Hiding next to a cart without masking her ability? Is that a joke right? Surely the Sharans wouldn't have a couple of channelers looking for women in hiding.

To do that, she would have to embrace the source first. Which would have given her away.

 

That was only really relevant when all the Sharans were over there and all the AS over here. Once they are mixed together, how can they tell who's channeling, friend or foe?

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*sighs*

 

Allright..picked up the book again...I made it from chapter 15 to the end of chapter 20.

I never-ever, for the life of me, would I have thought it would take me so much effort to read it. :madmyrddraal:

 

-Lan: more silly tactics, daydreaming of a kingdom all of a sudden and more Trolloc talk. Oh look.. a nobody who likes men. Big whoop. *check!*

 

Actually, the nobody who liked men was revealing what you complained about at the end of chapter 15. There seems to be something up with the great generals making dumb decisions.

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Boy, I thought I would see more discussion on things like the crazy huge Callandor reveal. Rand *agreeing* to leave hundreds of Aes Sedai and Wise Ones in cruel bondage. Instead, its mostly whining about this or that. Take a look at what is happening in the story, rather than some meta-discussion about the authors.

 

SMH.

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Boy, I thought I would see more discussion on things like the crazy huge Callandor reveal. Rand *agreeing* to leave hundreds of Aes Sedai and Wise Ones in cruel bondage. Instead, its mostly whining about this or that. Take a look at what is happening in the story, rather than some meta-discussion about the authors.

 

SMH.

I'm surprised we haven't heard more about Callandor. It was something discussed as a possibility, but as one most people didn't like.

 

The same with the Seanchan. There was really no option for an alliance that ended the damane system.

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Rand could have fought a bit harder. Will his side accept there comrades condemned to a life of abject horror? Alternatively, will Rand go back on his word or try to convince Tuon to relent?

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Rand could have fought a bit harder. Will his side accept there comrades condemned to a life of abject horror? Alternatively, will Rand go back on his word or try to convince Tuon to relent?

That is something I don't understand. They still have captured Aes Sedai, Wise ones and Kinswomen. And Rand is okay with that. Very stupid. What are the Aiel going to do? What are the Aes Sedai going to do? Dumb. That whole treaty with Tuon was just Dumb. Rushed and pathetic.

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Boy, I thought I would see more discussion on things like the crazy huge Callandor reveal. Rand *agreeing* to leave hundreds of Aes Sedai and Wise Ones in cruel bondage. Instead, its mostly whining about this or that. Take a look at what is happening in the story, rather than some meta-discussion about the authors.

Mate the WoT isn't dragon lance or whatever those wretched D&D books are called. You can't simply gloss over the various flaws.

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I just fininshed the chapter 20. I have to say, I agree partly with Mik so far. The writing is pretty terrible. I noticed it right away in tGS, during the prologue and tyhe first chapter with the short, choppy, undescriptie sentences and it hasn't improved. I agree with the sentiment that I am reading a book written for a 12 year old. Which is so odd, because Book 1 is so much more complicated of a read that that.

 

As for the plot and the characters, I do have some reservations, although not as many as some on this board. I have to start with Gawyn - we are getting way, way too much of him. And why? I thought, if any secondary character was going to be phased out, it would be him. Instead we get almost no Cadsusane, no Nynaeve, no Thom, but, multiple Gawyn pov's? I don't get it, have never liked his character and if I was sure Egwene wasn't going to be in his scenes, I would skip them.

 

I do like Egwene; I think BS actually does a not bad job of writing her. Same goes for Perrin. He was my least favorite character during RJ's days at the rein. BS has ruined almost every one else but, he made Perrin interesting. Or at least gave him something interesting to do - maybe that's it.

 

The Rand - Mat - Tuon scene was without a doubt the most awkward, non-RJ, out of character, bring you out of the book experience yet. It honestly felt like I was suddenly watching a brutal 8pm sit-com. Or a bad buddy-cop movie. I feel even worse because, I actually stopped, went back and read it again and thought, ok, that could actually have worked if it was done some other way. I don't profess to know how, but, I have no problem with two dudes, jokingly trying to one-up each other. And fans might have enjoyed a quick re-living of all of their accomplishments. However, it remains the worst scene in the series so far.

 

The future. OK, after reading of Aviendha's trip(s) through the ruins, I actually for the first time became nervous about the end of the series. I can honestly before that I was always pretty sure we would get something of the happy-Hollywood ending with a dead Rand-Jesus as the reasoning. And I was ok with that. After reading the first 20 chapters and seeing that Aviendha's future confirmed by another Wise One, I tremble. Now there is some foreshadowing with the comment (by someone I can't remember) about changing something small like a babies name, so maybe there is hope. But, the Rand-Tuon peace has greatly increased my anxiety that the damane issue won't be resolved before the series ends. I will NOT feel right about that. I don't think I can be happy/satisfied/content having read about a world for the better part of 20 years and be left with slavery. I don't know how to express properly how I feel about this, as I am sure RJ and BS don't care about my viewpoint but, it is hard to fathom that this world and these people will be left with that. And, according to Aviendha, that those same people might actually succeed in conquering the planet. It is a slavery of the worst kind - a slavery that shows no signs of being susceptible to uprising - because the abused actually can't strike back!

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I'm about 4/5 done with the book at this point, and I'd encourage those disappointed so far to keep going.  I'd agree with most of the criticisms I've read about the first half, but the book seems to me to have improved very much in the second half.  There are still bothersome instances, but it seems much more fluid and focused.  I never thought I'd say this about a WOT book, but there was really too much happening at once there for a while.  The schizophrenic method of narration that Sanderson chose was starting to make the fighting seem a bit tedious.  Switching POV almost every few paragraphs wears me out when it goes on for hundreds of pages.  I'm not done yet though, so I'll be able to talk about the rest in the other threads tomorrow.

 

For some reason Gawyn doesn't bother me as he seems to bother so many people.  I've actually enjoyed his arc so far.  I can understand if people would rather read a different character, but yeah...he's ok with me.

 

I definitely agree that Perrin is Sandeson's strong suit.  He's got him almost just right, to my mind.  Egwene is usually strong for him as well.  Rand is hit or miss, but so far much more miss than hit in this book. 

 

It's hard to remember what exactly was going on at chapter 20, so I better stop before i say something stupid.

Edited by batcaver
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