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For some reason the thread I created last night disapeared, so here it is again....

 

Question: Who was behind the attack on Demira Sedai?

Maria's Answer: Padan Fain and his corrupted Whitecloaks.


Question: Sammael claims to have a truce with Rand, even though we see Rand turn him down. Was Sammael lying, or did…

Maria's Answer: Sammael was lying in an attempt to manipulate Graendal.

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I thought the attack on Demira Sedai was side-plot of Verin completing a "Darkfriend" plot to turn the Aes Sedai against Rand and keep them from finding a common groud in their meetings.

 

 

And I agree there was no truce with Sammael and that he was lying to Graendal.

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I too assumed, on a re-read after Verin revealed herself, that the attack on Demira was initiated by Verin and/or another Black Ajah member. This goes against her personal mission of helping the light when and how she could up until her last day, where she can betray everything, but if she was ordered to cause friction between Rand and the Aes Sedai by having an Aes Sedai attacked by "Aiel", then she would have no choice.

 

Though, admittedly, they weren't Aiel due to their dark hair and Verin wouldn't have made that mistake... Then again, maybe she would, as a way to follow her orders, and yet leave an opening for the Light-siders to figure out the plot.

 

Really, the whole thing just reeks of Verin to me. Padan Fain just seems like a, I don't know, a cop-out. Padan Fain is a wild-card who is crazy and appears in random places. Something goes wrong? Fain did it.

 

To me, Fain is like The Joker in The Dark Knight. He's an agent of chaos. He is not a schemer. He has a gift for turning schemer's schemes back onto themselves. In fact, after that movie came out, I have a hard time not envisioning Fain being played by Heath Leger.

Edited by Whizbang

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I thought it was a scheme by Taim to increase tension between Rand and the Aes Sedai. Who else but ashaman would be willing to so brazenly attack an Aes Sedai, while staying so calm?

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I don't know about a cop out, but Fain does feel like an unsatisfying answer. The attack on Demira set into the motion the events that drove Rand out of Caemlyn and into the hands of the Tower embassy in Cairhien. It's hard to imagine that not being a Darkfriend conspiracy.

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I don't know about a cop out, but Fain does feel like an unsatisfying answer. The attack on Demira set into the motion the events that drove Rand out of Caemlyn and into the hands of the Tower embassy in Cairhien. It's hard to imagine that not being a Darkfriend conspiracy.

 

It was Verin who used the attack to guide Demira into suggesting their confrontation, so that part still makes sense even though she didn't have anything to do with the attack itself.

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For some reason the thread I created last night disapeared, so here it is again....

 

Didn't disappear, it was posted in the Cage Match section for some odd reason.

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Fain's specialty is turning people against each other. Or Mordeth's specialty, anyway. He was trying to turn the Aes Sedai against Rand, and trying to turn Rand (and the Aes Sedai) against the Aiel. Both have the potential to get in the way of Fain's determination to kill Rand—personally if at all possible, but he wants Rand dead badly enough that he sent his Whitecloaks to kill him. Of course, it was just a test, to see what his defenses were like, and of course Rand's life was saved by Desora, a Maiden who took an arrow for him. Hard to kill a man if he's surrounded by people who give him such loyalty.

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Yeah, I think a lot of people misunderstand Fain.

I mean yes, the guy is completely insane and erratic but he is also very calculating, in the short term at least.

He is fully capable of setting up and starting complicated plots designed to achieve multiple goals at once. He just doesn't seem capable of seeing them through to the end.

Whether he gets bored, impatient or simply finds a new shiney red ball to chase, he rarely sees these plots through to fruition.

He introduces chaos where ever he goes against the forces of the Light or the Shadow, it matters little to him.

I can definitely see why RJ had so much fun writing him, the ultimate wild card.

Edited by Finnssss

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I always had the feeling that Demandred was behind the attack on Demira.

 

I agree that Sammael lied to Graendal, and why Moridin helped Rand... he was there when Sammael spoke to Graendal about it.

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they weren't Aiel due to their dark hair

 

And also because they called Aes Sedai "witches"( which supports them being White Cloaks), and called Rand the Dragon Reborn.

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The Mordeth entity is smart and knowledgeable, apart from being capable of weird stunts. 

He's also complicated and at the time of LoC, he's still experimenting with his powers in a shotgun sort of way. 

Driving a wedge between Aiel/ AS could be useful in general.

 

I'd always assumed it was Fain's doing because of the dark hair, normal height, :witches" business.

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Well, too bad. It being Fain is sort of a dead-end. There's nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't matter much. Taim, now, that could still play a role.

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Fain did the crossbow attack, but Demira? I never thought for a moment that was him. I still haven't wrapped my mind around it because as the Aes Sedai presumed, who can give orders to Aeil? If they are darkfriends, why leave her alive at all? Just because of instructions from Verin? Verin did not have any contact with the Aeil before that, certainly not enough to find a group of DFs.

 

I thought they were Aeil, not just Whitecloaks dressed up as them. I guess I would have to read the passages again to see if the eye colourings were off.

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1:It wasn't a crossbow attack.

2: They weren't Aiel, just men pretending to be Aiel. Their eyes were black. They had dark hair, I believe. And they were only average height, not tall. I think one was even described as short.

3: They left her alive so that it would create distrust and anger between the AS and Rand.

Edited by Whizbang

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I thought they were Aeil, not just Whitecloaks dressed up as them. I guess I would have to read the passages again to see if the eye colourings were off.

Pretty obvious they were just disguised WC's:

 

LoC Ch.46

She had not seen anyone at all before she rounded a corner to find five or six Aielmen coming toward her, laughing and talking among themselves. They seemed startled to see her.

"Pardon, Aes Sedai," one of them muttered, and they all pressed against the side of the run, though there was plenty of room.

Wondering if they were the same who had followed her – one of those faces looked familiar, that of a squat fellow with villainous eyes – she nodded and murmured thanks as she started past.

The spear going into her side was such a shock she did not even cry out. Frantically she reached for saidar, but something else pierced her side, and she was down in the dust. That remembered face was thrust into hers, black eyes mocking, growling something she ignored as she tried to reach saidar, tried to... Darkness closed in.

LoC.

"I was told to tell you all to stay away from al’Thor. Exact words. ‘Tell the other witches to stay away from the Dragon Reborn.’

Edited by Suttree

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1:It wasn't a crossbow attack.

 

 

I could be wrong but I think Viper was referring to the arrow fired in tGH-9 that missed Rand, injured Siuan and killed a man. That wasn't Fain though, that was the Gray Man that Ingtar let into Fal Dara.

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No, I was talking about the attack in Camelyn, I think, when Fain and the Whitecloaks attacked Rand's group and a woman was killed. Rand hanged them and made the watcher watch them die. I can't remember if it was Fain's group, but I kind of thought so.

 

I know Demira was a different incident. Thanks for clearing that up Sut, I couldn't remember if the eye colourings were mentioned.

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