Perrin's Hammer

[Barid Bel Medar]

As requested by he who comes with a bong, since we have updated info on the subject. So a spoiler discussion of this topic.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/59103-rands-reaction/

[he who comes with a bong]

So we all know Perrin hasthis new badass hammer. It was the first power made weapon inover 3000s years. But it seemsto me to be more than just an ordinary power made weapon. Since Perrins feelings and anger and all his emotions went into the making of it along with Neald drawing the power in a way that just seemed right, makes methink that Perrins hammer is infact some type of special new type of weapon that uses the power in some way and its albe to be used my any one channeler or non channeler.

 

every one else's thoughts ?

[Kamin_Majere]

I thought power forged weapons were still being made until right after the Trolloc wars, but i guess that could be wrong (i just seem to remember that's when the "no weapon" oath was taken up)

 

As to the hammer, yeah it is indeed something "more" than a normal power forged weapon. Lan's sword if awesome and all but it doesn't cause shadow spawn to burst into flames or anything like that. So it could very well be a power forged weapon and a Ter'angaeral (sp) at the same time. It has something special about it. But whether or not it was due to a man channeling to make it (using fire to heat the metal while aligning the matrix) or something else i dont know.

[Amandera]

I wonder if Mah'alleinir can kill a Myrddraal immediately. Did Perrin ever use it on one that we saw?

[elric]

a +5 shock+bane (shadowspawn) + flaming burst Hammer :)))

 

it clearly a weapon with super abilities at the VERY LEAST .

[Morden]

It actually sounds similar to the sword Rand forms out of fire in the early books. tDR/tSR in that it burns and such. So I would be surprised if Rand isnt aware how to create weapons like Perrin's Hammer.

 

Essentially all that has been done is a weave which harms shadowspawn has been added to the weave which keeps a weapon sharp and strong.

[he who comes with a bong]

I thought power forged weapons were still being made until right after the Trolloc wars, but i guess that could be wrong (i just seem to remember that's when the "no weapon" oath was taken up)

 

As to the hammer, yeah it is indeed something "more" than a normal power forged weapon. Lan's sword if awesome and all but it doesn't cause shadow spawn to burst into flames or anything like that. So it could very well be a power forged weapon and a Ter'angaeral (sp) at the same time. It has something special about it. But whether or not it was due to a man channeling to make it (using fire to heat the metal while aligning the matrix) or something else i dont know.

 

I think it is something more along the lines of what Perrin is feeling while he is making it. After all further on down the line he has the rest of the blacksmiths in his camp making the ordinary type of power wrought weapon, with the spear points for the maidens and whatnot. So you would think it is something special that has to do with Perrin himself. It could be his tavernness or the fact that he is a wolf brother and since he is connected to the dream world more so than others he is some how able to draw what basically is i would call it his essence of him self ( if that makes sense) into what he made. Like when it starts feeling warm and whatnot it could be the warrior side of Perrin being glad for the killing.

 

And of course the hammer is mentioned in the prophecies. As a sing of the last battle but there may be a little bit more to it being mentioned.

[BFG]

It actually sounds similar to the sword Rand forms out of fire in the early books. tDR/tSR in that it burns and such. So I would be surprised if Rand isnt aware how to create weapons like Perrin's Hammer.

 

Essentially all that has been done is a weave which harms shadowspawn has been added to the weave which keeps a weapon sharp and strong.

 

I'm not sure the two can be that similar - Perrins hammer is a physical object whereas Rands sword is mostly fire (plus probably earth and spirit, or somesuch).

[Morden]

It actually sounds similar to the sword Rand forms out of fire in the early books. tDR/tSR in that it burns and such. So I would be surprised if Rand isnt aware how to create weapons like Perrin's Hammer.

 

Essentially all that has been done is a weave which harms shadowspawn has been added to the weave which keeps a weapon sharp and strong.

 

I'm not sure the two can be that similar - Perrins hammer is a physical object whereas Rands sword is mostly fire (plus probably earth and spirit, or somesuch).

 

By adding the Earth it has a physical aspect, it just held together by Saidin rather than forging it, He could have probably tied the weave off, but it literally burned everything it touched so it wouldnt be safe for a scabbard.

 

But the fact that Rand can weave a trap around a waygate that kills shadowspawn make it more than plausible that he could place a weave on a weapon that any shadowspawn it touches will die. It would have to be modified somewhat from how the normal wards work, but if I were one of them I'd be looking in that direction

 

Thing is, Rand has so much innate knowledge locked away in LTT's mind that he could draw on things without really understanding it far before his union with LTT, It'd probably never even crossed Rand's mind, but if he spoke with Perrin it might make him think "Damn why didnt I think of that, back in 5mins just going to go teach them how to lay the weave so that our blades make a trolloc feel like its eaten one too many ice peppers."

[BFG]

It actually sounds similar to the sword Rand forms out of fire in the early books. tDR/tSR in that it burns and such. So I would be surprised if Rand isnt aware how to create weapons like Perrin's Hammer.

 

Essentially all that has been done is a weave which harms shadowspawn has been added to the weave which keeps a weapon sharp and strong.

 

I'm not sure the two can be that similar - Perrins hammer is a physical object whereas Rands sword is mostly fire (plus probably earth and spirit, or somesuch).

 

By adding the Earth it has a physical aspect, it just held together by Saidin rather than forging it, He could have probably tied the weave off, but it literally burned everything it touched so it wouldnt be safe for a scabbard.

 

But the fact that Rand can weave a trap around a waygate that kills shadowspawn make it more than plausible that he could place a weave on a weapon that any shadowspawn it touches will die. It would have to be modified somewhat from how the normal wards work, but if I were one of them I'd be looking in that direction

 

Thing is, Rand has so much innate knowledge locked away in LTT's mind that he could draw on things without really understanding it far before his union with LTT, It'd probably never even crossed Rand's mind, but if he spoke with Perrin it might make him think "Damn why didnt I think of that, back in 5mins just going to go teach them how to lay the weave so that our blades make a trolloc feel like its eaten one too many ice peppers."

 

I don't know near enough about weaves to argue against you, but I think their's a difference between wards and the weave to make a weapon - every AS knows how to ward and I would have thought it would be one thing that most Ashaman are taught as it relates directly to fighting. If that's true and the Ashaman involved didn't once think about wards (from memory, maybe he did) I think their's an identifiable difference. Aren't wards 'fixed' to areas - we've only seen them set to locations: around Callandor, around camps/rooms/people standing still - have we ever seen people ward against eavesdropping whilst walking?

 

Additionally saying that the fire sword requires earth is again just a guess (on my part - unless you have a quote), regardless even if it does use earth as a weave, it has no substance in and of itself. Perrins power forged hammer required physical metal to be created, Rand never used anything physical, so I don't think the two can be compared - again, I don't know, but I always viewed the sword as something like a fancy fireball.

 

And they no longer need Rands knowledge, they already have one Ashaman that knows how to do it, he can teach others.

[he who comes with a bong]

As of right now Neald can only teach the others how to do the basic power wrought item. That one night was a one time thing i think in my book, as being unique in it was Perrin doing the forgeing

[OptimusPrime]

Im not a fan of the hammer, everything about it STINKS of wanting to give Perrin some cool equipment in an attempt (which epicly failed) to keep up with Mat.

 

a +5 shock+bane (shadowspawn) + flaming burst Hammer :)))

 

Was that a DDO reference?!? Either way I smell 3.5

[hjustinpace]

I'm not sure how I feel about the hammer, but the forging itself was awesome. Much like the scene from COT where he threw away the axe. Upon re-read, I really think Perrin's arc the latter half of the series would've really worked with some better editing (and more interesting things happening in the other storylines).

[FarShainMael]

Surely the whole point of the hammer is that it is Mjöllnir, to fit the Thor aspect of Perrin, alongside Tyr (Rand) and Odin (Mat).

[Agitel]

Im not a fan of the hammer, everything about it STINKS of wanting to give Perrin some cool equipment in an attempt (which epicly failed) to keep up with Mat.

 

This was intended from the start of the series. It's Mjolnir. Thor's hammer. Mat carries a spear like object, as Odin was said to. The "Dragon Scepter" that Rand kept may be an allusion to a spear that Tyr was said to carry, which was less of a weapon and more a sign of judicial power.

[OptimusPrime]

Im not a fan of the hammer, everything about it STINKS of wanting to give Perrin some cool equipment in an attempt (which epicly failed) to keep up with Mat.

 

This was intended from the start of the series. It's Mjolnir. Thor's hammer. Mat carries a spear like object, as Odin was said to. The "Dragon Scepter" that Rand kept may be an allusion to a spear that Tyr was said to carry, which was less of a weapon and more a sign of judicial power.

 

I knew someone would bring it up. Its not so much about the fact that he has a magic hammer, its more about the way it happened. Something special about a powerwrought hammer would have been fine for me WITHOUT Perrin "pouring" his emotions into it or whatever. I dont recall anything on that level ever being mentioned throughout Perrins arc. Powerwrought weapons enhanced by a ta'veren NON-CHANNELER forger? Sorry, but it felt completely... not fitting for what Perrin should be capable of. I just think there could have been a less blatant way of incorporating him getting it.

[BFG]

Im not a fan of the hammer, everything about it STINKS of wanting to give Perrin some cool equipment in an attempt (which epicly failed) to keep up with Mat.

 

This was intended from the start of the series. It's Mjolnir. Thor's hammer. Mat carries a spear like object, as Odin was said to. The "Dragon Scepter" that Rand kept may be an allusion to a spear that Tyr was said to carry, which was less of a weapon and more a sign of judicial power.

 

I knew someone would bring it up. Its not so much about the fact that he has a magic hammer, its more about the way it happened. Something special about a powerwrought hammer would have been fine for me WITHOUT Perrin "pouring" his emotions into it or whatever. I dont recall anything on that level ever being mentioned throughout Perrins arc. Powerwrought weapons enhanced by a ta'veren NON-CHANNELER forger? Sorry, but it just felt completely... not fitting for what Perrin should be capable of.

 

 

 

Perrin has a habit of doing something with his hands to think things through, in DR it was using the forge to distract himself, more recently it's been fiddling with Blacksmiths puzzles, but him doing something active to think things through isn't out of character, but I don't think going back to the forge is really a surprise. Also the 'pouring of emotions' is mentioned briefly in one line. The rest is him thinking things through (and thinking how nice it is to make something again) taking hime to being a leader. So, it may be a little blunt (in terms of writing) but it's not really out of character.

[Balefire to da face!]

A comment from the other thread....

 

I would say it has more similarities to matt's medallion, one is cold to the touch when channeled agianst, the other is always warm. As far as we know one burns the skin of Ghollam, whilst the other burns the skin on trollocs. I would not be surprised to find out that the hammer stops Perrin from being attacked directly with the power as well.

 

Well, we are getting to the end game now, and Perrin is likely going to have to get up front and center instead of fighting side battles. Which means, unless he's going to spend the whole Last Battle in TAR, he needs something to keep any random dark channeler from popping his head from 100 yards away. So yeah, I have been hoping one of the aspects of the Hammer is a way to offset the One Power. Maybe in a somewhat different way then Mat's. Perhaps absorbing or redirecting weaves aimed at him and sending them back at the channeler.....in the form of lighting

[OptimusPrime]

Im not a fan of the hammer, everything about it STINKS of wanting to give Perrin some cool equipment in an attempt (which epicly failed) to keep up with Mat.

 

This was intended from the start of the series. It's Mjolnir. Thor's hammer. Mat carries a spear like object, as Odin was said to. The "Dragon Scepter" that Rand kept may be an allusion to a spear that Tyr was said to carry, which was less of a weapon and more a sign of judicial power.

 

I knew someone would bring it up. Its not so much about the fact that he has a magic hammer, its more about the way it happened. Something special about a powerwrought hammer would have been fine for me WITHOUT Perrin "pouring" his emotions into it or whatever. I dont recall anything on that level ever being mentioned throughout Perrins arc. Powerwrought weapons enhanced by a ta'veren NON-CHANNELER forger? Sorry, but it just felt completely... not fitting for what Perrin should be capable of.

 

 

 

Perrin has a habit of doing something with his hands to think things through, in DR it was using the forge to distract himself, more recently it's been fiddling with Blacksmiths puzzles, but him doing something active to think things through isn't out of character, but I don't think going back to the forge is really a surprise. Also the 'pouring of emotions' is mentioned briefly in one line. The rest is him thinking things through (and thinking how nice it is to make something again) taking hime to being a leader. So, it may be a little blunt (in terms of writing) but it's not really out of character.

 

Im not saying its out of character. Im not griping at him going back to the forge, doing things with his hands, etc. I just dont think he should have been able to add anything to the mix, other than the actual hammer building. If the Shadowspawn bane effect was something the channelers did on top of the regular powerwroughting, it wouldnt be quite as bad, but I didnt take that from the scene.

[BFG]

Im not a fan of the hammer, everything about it STINKS of wanting to give Perrin some cool equipment in an attempt (which epicly failed) to keep up with Mat.

 

This was intended from the start of the series. It's Mjolnir. Thor's hammer. Mat carries a spear like object, as Odin was said to. The "Dragon Scepter" that Rand kept may be an allusion to a spear that Tyr was said to carry, which was less of a weapon and more a sign of judicial power.

 

I knew someone would bring it up. Its not so much about the fact that he has a magic hammer, its more about the way it happened. Something special about a powerwrought hammer would have been fine for me WITHOUT Perrin "pouring" his emotions into it or whatever. I dont recall anything on that level ever being mentioned throughout Perrins arc. Powerwrought weapons enhanced by a ta'veren NON-CHANNELER forger? Sorry, but it just felt completely... not fitting for what Perrin should be capable of.

 

 

 

Perrin has a habit of doing something with his hands to think things through, in DR it was using the forge to distract himself, more recently it's been fiddling with Blacksmiths puzzles, but him doing something active to think things through isn't out of character, but I don't think going back to the forge is really a surprise. Also the 'pouring of emotions' is mentioned briefly in one line. The rest is him thinking things through (and thinking how nice it is to make something again) taking hime to being a leader. So, it may be a little blunt (in terms of writing) but it's not really out of character.

 

Im not saying its out of character. Im not griping at him going back to the forge, doing things with his hands, etc. I just dont think he should have been able to add anything to the mix, other than the actual hammer building. If the Shadowspawn bane effect was something the channelers did on top of the regular powerwroughting, it wouldnt be quite as bad, but I didnt take that from the scene.

 

fair enough; because it's written from Perrins pov it's difficult to say that his emotions affected the forging, we know that he had them and used the forging as a way to work through them. But the sizzling and smoking on the trollocs skin is new to the power wrought hammer so you're probably right.

[Centauri25]

I think ya'll are overthinking it. Perrin was leading the effort when he forged the hammer. He wasn't directing the flows, but he was influencing by how he worked the metal, the heat needed and his tvrn-ness and leadership impacted the flows, drew them in.

 

Holy hell, man. Find something else to gripe about - this was just about the coolest scene in the series.

[Drakkon]

Im not a fan of the hammer, everything about it STINKS of wanting to give Perrin some cool equipment in an attempt (which epicly failed) to keep up with Mat.

 

This was intended from the start of the series. It's Mjolnir. Thor's hammer. Mat carries a spear like object, as Odin was said to. The "Dragon Scepter" that Rand kept may be an allusion to a spear that Tyr was said to carry, which was less of a weapon and more a sign of judicial power.

 

I knew someone would bring it up. Its not so much about the fact that he has a magic hammer, its more about the way it happened. Something special about a powerwrought hammer would have been fine for me WITHOUT Perrin "pouring" his emotions into it or whatever. I dont recall anything on that level ever being mentioned throughout Perrins arc. Powerwrought weapons enhanced by a ta'veren NON-CHANNELER forger? Sorry, but it just felt completely... not fitting for what Perrin should be capable of.

 

 

 

Perrin has a habit of doing something with his hands to think things through, in DR it was using the forge to distract himself, more recently it's been fiddling with Blacksmiths puzzles, but him doing something active to think things through isn't out of character, but I don't think going back to the forge is really a surprise. Also the 'pouring of emotions' is mentioned briefly in one line. The rest is him thinking things through (and thinking how nice it is to make something again) taking hime to being a leader. So, it may be a little blunt (in terms of writing) but it's not really out of character.

 

Im not saying its out of character. Im not griping at him going back to the forge, doing things with his hands, etc. I just dont think he should have been able to add anything to the mix, other than the actual hammer building. If the Shadowspawn bane effect was something the channelers did on top of the regular powerwroughting, it wouldnt be quite as bad, but I didnt take that from the scene.

 

fair enough; because it's written from Perrins pov it's difficult to say that his emotions affected the forging, we know that he had them and used the forging as a way to work through them. But the sizzling and smoking on the trollocs skin is new to the power wrought hammer so you're probably right.

 

I don't think his "pouring" his emotions into the hammer has had any impact on the powers it has. I think it is indication that he is frustrated, scared, and angry, and making the hammer is his release so he can focus. If he added anything to the power of the hammer it came in the form of being ta'veren and the pattern pulling on Neald to make the weaves feel "right". As for it having powers not seen before, we now have the ability to heal stilling/gentling, heal madness and Rand has cleaned Sadin. So its not the first time something that has never been possible happens.

[joeron bigelow]

 

 

Holy hell, man. Find something else to gripe about - this was just about the coolest scene in the series.

 

I will say that I am not a big Perrin fan, or even a little Perrin fan, but i will admit this was a top ten moment in the books for me.

 

I will also say - with only 40 or so chapters left in the book, I can't see the hammer having more magical powers than just being a power wrought item. Maybe yes it is +1 against creatures of the shadow, but at this stage in the game - i can't see giving him a "block saidin/saidar/TP" weapon for TG. But hey - i'm not the literary genius here, just a plain joeron into some book reading.

[Suttree]

It was a great scene and is a very impressive weapon. That said claiming it may deflect weaves is baseless speculation. There is nothing at all to indicate that is the case. It's good enough as is, I actually think it would be kinda lame if it acted as Mat's medallion as well.

[Green Bay Ajah]

Maybe it is also a sa/ter/angrael? Maybe the channelers with Perrin and flow weaves through it to amplify the damage it does to Shadow Creatures? With how powerful the chapter was and the amount of energy it took to make I don't see it being unsignificant. I have a feeling it will be what turns tides on Perrin's army fighting the DO.