Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

elric

Member
  • Content Count

    269
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  1. favorites: Nynaeve -> one of the character of grow the most in the story Perrin -> i love his mixture of humility /responsebility and total BAD -ASSery :)) Min -> one of the very few young female char who aint a bully/idiot/presempteous bitch (Nyn started as such but she grown out of it :) ) Thom -> gleeman job is to get likd by people :) respected: Tam Lan Bridgit the wise ones , all the wise one presented to us (except the Shaido) was worthy of respect Siuan and Morrain Rodel Ituralde Verin Theodrin Paulin -> nasty woman but she got guts and morality make me loughed MAT !!! (his latter to Eilean is pure comic gold "your royal pain in my ass" ) Valen Loca -> bit pissed he never met Lan :)
  2. trust me i'm QUITE FAMILIAR with the JUdaic version of god and in the Bible description of how God treated my ancestors :)))) and if u notice beeing god chosen ants -> AINT FUN :))) "do wrong in the eye of god ---> punished" is quite a repeatable thme in he bible :)))
  3. Order there are wolves HOTH that Perrin meet and release/send/lead... (not sure how to describe it exactly :) ) into the last battle. so if wolves get the honor.... why not other sentient beeing :) Barid i wont be able to do Gawin justice since i dont think he is horn worthy. i do believe U made a good case for him. i still await your arguments so i could post them :) Ares i never moved the goalpost, i brought Arthur as an example to a dominating quality , u somehow imagine him in a diffrent way then i brought him and u also ignore its only an example and that this thread IS NOT about Arthur. if u disagrea wih my test , mind sharing how u decide if a char is Horn worthy ?
  4. the main problem with Nakomi beeing the Creator/ Patern Avatar is her meeting with Avienda why the world (creator/pattern / cosmos..) will care about 1 speicific tribe ??? do u play favorites with the scale in your hair/ or the ants in your backyard ... ??? the meeting with Avi had NO EFFECT on the great battle !!! her vision show the great battle was WON even if she do nothing after the meeting . and if u claim the creator do care in such details... please explain the existenc of any bad thing /evil empire... that exist in Rand univerce.
  5. Barid: good points , if u will ost a short explanation and 1 title sentence i will add Gawyn to the candidates, like the sentence in the poll and the small reasoning in the opening post that each candidate have (he is your candidate so u shoyld sell him best :) ). still not sold on Gawyn as an hero but i c now why he is a candidate :) Ave Birg and Gaid have "true love" love strong enough to survive trough death (strongly recomend seeing Princess Bride for a true love story). most of the char found love , which is kind of the way the pattern reward them, do what the pattern want -> find happiness but from all the coupling i think only Nyn + Lan / Per+ Fail may be true love, the other coupling dont seem as strong to me :Rand had other love in prior life, Eg calm reaction to Gawyn death... about what make the candidate i offer stand out -> i think i kind of answer it allready in the thread , but i be happy to address any speicific disagreament u have :)
  6. disagrea on Gawyn, idont c what make him stand a part i think horn heroes should have something that make them stand out, dont c it in Gawyn btw: u dont need to die in the LB to become an hero :))), we simply know thanks to Badir that atleast 1 of the LB casulties become 1 . but that dont say that the survivors wont be inducted later :))
  7. thank you barid :) as i said spelling name is a bane of mine :)) Venin may be an option -> THE THIEF ! :)) Rhuarc might be-> we dont know how great his reutation and history was among the Aial or probably someone we dont know about :) could even been a Senchean or a Shara person who did great and grand deads that our P.O.V wasnt aware off :))) or an Ogair or a wolf :)))
  8. after some rereading i'm adding 1 more option and editing the starting post ( to add his qualification). if u have candidate u want me to add simply post them and the reasoning /qualification for the title. Mat is out (was told he not an hero) personally i feel Perrin should fall under Mat category , but i'm open to argument claiming diffrently .
  9. it very clear to me that Edmound field residents are reincranation of Mantheirn. most obvious is Mat who before the holes in his memory and it filling was speakiing the old tongue and had glimpases of ordering the heart guard. Egwene has a very strong case for beeing Eldrene incarnation , doughter of the village leader, strong channeler , born herself after her lover died (Gawin)... but also does Nyn -> the wysdom of the village (female leader) , epic love story with actually caring for her beloved MORE then for the WT, uber strong channeler... i guess other Edmond Field char can be good candidate as well (Boad /Merrin...) there hardly any wrong choise here (maybe Daizy Conger ... :) ) so it more to personal taste and view personally i lean toward Nyn but i admit it totally due to personal bias , i dislike Egy ( mainly becouse how everyone near her was so DOWNPLAYED just so she can shine) and Nyn is one of my fav character :)
  10. as i said i nevr argue with the Author :) another fav theory (and defendable one) down the drain :( btw u have link to this saying ? 1000 wife /let cut the baby ruling /my father torment u with wheeps i will toment u with scorpions (his son speach to the ppl)..., but Solomon is NOT remembered for just or injust he is remembered for wisdom. Arthur is not remembered for wisdom he is remembered for justice and the ideal of the knight -> protect the innocent... the living Avatar is one of SEVERAL tests! that i put my candidate trough. the strongest living Avatar is Galad but notice he aint my 1st pick, it a combination between accomplishment and personality an hero of the horn in my opinion is an hero who can stand the test of time!, a legend to be remembered, beeing a living Avatar is 1 of the tools that help u accomplish that. took Vlad Tpach the Impaler the Dracul for example great leader, great general, defender of east europe against the Othomsn invasion.... i bet there been atleast few more european leaders of probably equal feats. but Vlad become a living Avatar of cruelty (unjustified in my opinion) but he become one. and now hundreds year after his death he still leave in our mind and memory, and his legend keep growing and becoming stronger.
  11. didnt remembered i used it first :) " When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known. " how it NOT referring to Perrin ????? if the tripod was only a metaphor why wasnt it used against ANY other char ? with all due respect to Perrin till the very end he had very minor impact, all he did was rouse 1 valley (2 river) and then go around and deal with the prophet and the remain of the Shayido, not even close to Egy deeds and much less impactfull then even Darlin and Dubreme who help very volatil position for Rand. yet from all P.O.V (Point of View) we are presented by both from the light AND the shadow Mat and Perin are the TOP priority. and they are the only character the shadow gave a world wide kill on sight order about. personaly i believe that: " And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides, when the right hand falters and the left hand strays, that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight, " this is about Perrin (the right hand) who falters when Pail was taken and was willing to sacrifice the world for her/ or about Perrin battle with slayer in the WT where he lost and hopper died and Mat (the left hand) who strayed into Ghanjy tower when in the dark prophecies he suppose to be lost forever they both also mention in the dark prophecies " In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning,8 and the First Among Vermin9 lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and " (brian sanderson remarked that the broken wolf is Perrin spirit guide) when the prophecies reffer to other char it was with connection to the Dragon, asmodean as someone the dragon chain , the 5 and 4 as ppl who ride with the dragon.... only Mat and Perrin are mentioned by themselve and not as part of the dragon actions living Avatar as a test for horn heroes: Salomon is in NO way an Avatar of just king :))) , of WISE sure !!! of just one -> nope :)), a better non europe example would be Celach A Din (known as Seladin to native english speaker) and remember that the heros are reborn so Hercules and Samson can be the same soul/ Hero century apart if i ask someone in China he may say the monkey is the trickster while an African will say Ananasy and nordic will say Loky , which create NO contradiction couse the heroes are reborning and recreating their legend trough the age. it just 3 diffrent name/incranation of the same hero. Anla the wise is: "ask Deby " advise column auther , ask around the world and c which is more known Ask Debby or Pelle or Muhamad Ali... (i used sport figures from roughly the same time she was published) and a side note :i'm not american, english aint my native toungue and i read most of serie translated (which is why i have such trouble in spelling names :)) ).
  12. thank you for the phrase "living Avatar" i struggle to find the right term to describe my point and that phrase nail it :) about Rand+ Mat+ Perin the SHADOW itself refer to them as the 3 legged stand ! meanning that they are 3 part of the SAME CONSTRACT cut 1 leg and the stand will fall.... and btw where the Dragon Prophecy refer to anyone but the dragon ? yes you can minimize anyone to a single definition , but not anyone can be the living avater (again thank you for this phrase) of that definition. look at our fables and myths: there are MANY heroes who can be minimize as "the strong" but only 1 is the living Avatar of that term -> Hercules there been many just and good kings but only 1 Arthur there been many uber athletic basketball player but only 1 "His Airness" -> Jordan Ty cob was the best baseball player the the BIG BABY (babe ruth) is THE PLAYEr and his legend grow as time go on an hero of the horn need a time defying Archtype, to be a living Avatar of something (ability/skill/artifect...) that will make ppl remember him as the eons go by
  13. minimizing the heroes into a dominant characterisation is just one test of several, and its not just a thing the character excel at but that it reach a level that they are percieved as literally the living avatar of that charecteristic. look at the heroes that mentiond: Bridgest : she describe herself as Archer , nothing more or nothing less just Archer , we all know she has a LOT MORE to her, but she can be minimized Paedrig: The PeaceMaker Mikel : of the PURE HEART (cant Galad lay claim to such a tytle) Shivan: the HUNTER Calian: the Chooser Arthur: can easily be minimized as the Uniter or the conquerer Amaresu: wielder of the sun sword Jain Charin : Farstrider Rogush: Eagle Eye Hend : The Striker (and to emphasize it he appear holding an hammer) 10 out of the 14 mentioned heroes answer this test , and the other 4 we simply dont know anything about heroes of the horns are ppl who can survive the trest of time, they are herows that are remembered in troughout milenias , u need a driving force /chareteristic that is strong enough to survive that, it dont imply that they are 1 dimensional character , but that they have atleast 1 uniqe ability/pashion/somethin that make them unforgatable about Rand+ Mat+Perin: the dragomn prophecy refer to them as well as to rand Mat is the one who chain the dougther. Perin is the wolf kng from the senchean prophecies and i'm sure there other references i dont remember currently. the shadow consider them as a 3 legged stand , and take great effort in trying to kill either Mat or Perin and by so INSURING his win. sending his best weapon against Mat (the Golem), not the WT and Emiralin , not Logain but against Mat
  14. as i said i view Rand + Mat + Perin as diffrent aspect of the same person /motive -> the Dragon for me these 3 are actually 1 whole split into 3. one of my test to check for horn availability is to c if u can minimilize the candidate into 1 charectaristic/aspect he personify. like Leopoled did with : Mat aka The Gambler :) btw if u have candidate i didnt mentioned or if u disagrea with few of the options i offer please post your opinion :)
  15. Lan : last son of malkier , the lone warrior who wage a one man war against the shadow, a warden of legendery quality, the best fighter of his time (as we know off) Nynev : THE HEALER , the woman who claim and proove that anything save death can be healed , who heal stilling and madness was believed impossible to heal even in AoL Lan + Nyn: the star crossed lover, the 1 man army against shadow who believe there nothing in this world for him except his impossible war and THE HEALER who penetrate and healed his heart Galad: the personalisation of law and morality, the man who single handadly reform the white cloak, the man who never lied and never took the wrong path no matter the cost Tom: the gray fox , the bard of legends , the master of the game, the queen maker and king killer, the force behind the union of Kair and andor (he save morgez and created the civil war in Kair) Egwain: the youngest and strongest Emiralin ever , the savior of the WT , the bane of the black Ajah and the negator of balefire Cadsuan: the legendary AS by which all AS been measured and found wanting, the AS who will never die as long as there advanture to be taken, the dragon advisor and teacher Loyal: the writer /the singer / the tree sighter the only ogeir traveler of its time , the one who found the green man , the great tree singer who defy his own mother and lead the ogeir in the LB this are the candidate that jump to my mind , i omitted Perrin and Mat becouse i percieve them as part of the Dragon to my believe Nyn and Lan are a lock as a couple , but i'm torn if its only them 2 or them + Galad i believe that to qualify to be a hero of the horn u need more then simply acomplish a lot, i believe u need a fairytale quality to u, that why i put Galad over Eg and cads, who both had much bigger impact then him but lack his thematic power, i think Nyn + Lan meet both the accomplishment and the fairytale criteria and even more so as a couple/love story, i also think Galad themetic/fairytale quality is strong enough to make him candidate. Cads i believe will end as an AS legend but not an hero Egwain i believe will share Cads fate, the balefire negation is an horn fitting feat but i feel she wasnt epic long enough to become an hero (died to soon) and that she lack a clear cut fairytale defining definition. Tom i believe have clear cut fairytale definition -> the bard but not enough accomplishment or streangth in the definition, in contrary to Galad who'se definition is VERY STRONG. to use example from the real world: Einstain : lock in => the crazy/absent minded genious, he personelize these them if not created it :) Howking: lock in -> he living personalisation of the mind over body theme Ofenhaimer: not sure "the pacifist who create the worst of weapin and is guilt ridden by it " is his theme and decent one but not as strong as them as Einstain of Howking have. i'm sure there are scientist who can rival these three in accomplishment / intellect (FEW but i bet some exist) but none can match their story value. i added Loyal to the poll, since we now know that not only human are heroes and there atleast wolf heroes who origined from the legend/dreaming of wolves.. there stand to reason other races will have their own Heroes with their own tasks, Loyal is one of the greatest traveler of his time , one of the stronget Tree singer, a great scholar and the only teenager who not only speak at the ogeir great meating but actually swept them and won against a VERY strong orator (his mom), it hard for me to minimize Loyal becouse it should be to an Ogeir standard and not human, but i think that tree singing /scholarship / the speach he made/ meeting the green man... fit into the Ogeir (btw name and places spelling is a bane of mine so if i misspell dont get mad just correct me and i or any mod will edit/fix it :)) )
×
×
  • Create New...